Tommy Lloyd

[BBQ wildcat]

How do we feel about Lloyd seemingly "self sanctioning" our scholarship limit this season? Because I fucking hate it. Now, I'm not having a good day, so I fucking hate a lot of things today, so please give me some feedback: yay or nay to self imposing a scholarship limit in order to get that out of the way?

Hate it! No One knows what our punishment may be OR when it will happen. So what if he self-imposes a 2 scholarship reduction THIS year, then the IARP results come out after the end of the season and they add a second post-season ban but no reduction of scholarships? Or impose nothing other than last year's post season ban and probation? Self-imposing like that, piecemeal, is just stupid.

[zonagrad]

Nico is so interesting to me. I don't know whether his evaluations were off or if he was just immature, but he ended up bringing much less in his one year at AZ than many expected. Would he have done bigger things in a possible sophomore season? Probably, but who knows? Kerr has given him a chance with the Warriors, and since that team has injuries galore, Nico is probably getting more minutes as a rookie than some expected. He's not a trainwreck; he's just not the next-level player many had him pegged as.

Anyway, I couldn't tell you how Tyty's game and prospects compare to Nico's. In the footage I've seen, Tyty looks more athletic and seems to have better instincts on offense.

https://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pl ... lits/2020/

There are two splits that tell you everything about Nico's season here. First is month by month, second is wins and losses.

Month by month, he shot well in November and we were 8-0. He shoot poorly in December and we were 2-3. He shot ok in January and we were 4-3. He shot poorly in February and we were 5-4. He shot well in March and we were 2-1.

He shot 44% and 38% from 3 in wins. He shot 33% and 25% from 3 in losses.

That tells you so much about him and our team. He was our only multidimensional perimeter player, so we depended on him a huge amount. His shooting was also inconsistent, and as such, we suffered heavily when his J didn't fall. He was as predictive a player as it gets.

This isn't really his fault either. Sometimes playera don't make shots. It wasn't like his shot quality varied wildly.

I disagree on him vs Tyty. Nico was a good distributor and 35.1 ast% and 2-1 assist/TO as a freshman shows that. Tyty, I see him more as a scorer. I think they're comparable as shooters. If Tyty has an advantage, it isn't offense, it's defensive length. That's what is exceptional about Tyty.

All due respect, I think you're judging offensive instincts off highlights for Tyty and full game for Nico. I tend to the opposite. I think Nico was a more refined player, but Tyty has the 6'9 wingspan freak factor Nico didn't.

Overall Nico had a really good freshman year. As did Green & Zeke. The biggest problem with that team is that those three freshmen had very little help from the rest of the roster. Dylan Smith was a starter and his overall stat line for the season looks underwhelming. But when you look at how he played against specific opponents, the real problem with that team is revealed: Smith would have good stat lines against bad teams and terrible stat lines against good teams --- statistically he was so-so. But Smith and Chase Jeter as a primary post player explains why that team struggled. If Nico, Josh & Zeke had a better supporting cast, that team would've been very good.

[gronk4heisman]

Tommy is building a very Gonzagacentric support staff, not that surprising considering that's where he was for 20 years

https://247sports.com/college/arizona/A ... 164780359/

[RondaeShimmy]

[Jefe]

Few can't be thrilled

[gronk4heisman]

Few can't be thrilled

I would think he would be happy to see them getting promotions. I doubt Tommy would take them without Few and the AD's blessing.

[YoDeFoe]

Glad to see this. Lloyd retained Terry and Murphy - which was the right thing for him, the program, and those coaches - but he also deserves to have his own staff on hand who know the culture and process he likes to operate within. Lot of "continuity" in both of those collections of hires and that's exactly what we need in his first season.

Looking forward to the filling of that final assistant coaching spot.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Overall Nico had a really good freshman year. As did Green & Zeke. The biggest problem with that team is that those three freshmen had very little help from the rest of the roster. Dylan Smith was a starter and his overall stat line for the season looks underwhelming. But when you look at how he played against specific opponents, the real problem with that team is revealed: Smith would have good stat lines against bad teams and terrible stat lines against good teams --- statistically he was so-so. But Smith and Chase Jeter as a primary post player explains why that team struggled. If Nico, Josh & Zeke had a better supporting cast, that team would've been very good.

I could not agree more. One of our major issues was that Nico and Zeke were the only multidimensional scorers we had. Meaning, they could hit J's, penetrate and pass.

Even on Dylan Smith's best day, he was one of the worst finishers at the rim I've seen at his size. So he was one dimensional as a shooter. Green was an inconsistent shooter, so he was a one dimensional slasher. Hazzard, just a shooter. Baker, just a shooter. Jeter, strictly back to the basket as a post player.

The tougher offensive teams have a number of multidimensional threats. Like in 14-15, TJ, NJ, Stanley and Ashley were all multidimensional. In 16-17, Lauri, Zo, Rawle, Kadeem and Kobi were all multidimensional.

So, a ton of responsibility fell to Zeke and Nico. They attracted a lot of defensive attention, and I think that's why we had so many ups and downs.

If Nico wasn't creating offense on the perimeter, no one else could.

[gronk4heisman]

Maybe fill the last spot with Patrick Baldwin Sr., that is the way to get stars today. He is making similar as a head coach to what Jack Murphy made last year as an assistant. Of course I say this in jest.

[YoDeFoe]

How do we feel about Lloyd seemingly "self sanctioning" our scholarship limit this season? Because I fucking hate it. Now, I'm not having a good day, so I fucking hate a lot of things today, so please give me some feedback: yay or nay to self imposing a scholarship limit in order to get that out of the way?

First, sorry you're having a bad day, man.

This is my cynical side speaking. I wonder if this is not partially a way to limit expectations.

Why do I think that? It makes very little sense to me that Arizona would self sanction in two different ways at two different times. Why tourney ban in December, then do a full round 2 of self sanctions a few months later?

It would make far more sense to me to announce a single set of self sanctions that fits what we believe our culpability is for the allegations in the NOA. Piecemealing it makes no strategic sense.

Or perhaps the dark theory is true. The tourney ban was solely a way for Robbins to leverage firing Miller, so Robbins took the tourney from the players to handicap Miller and decided to figure out the rest later.

I do think scholarship restrictions create an excuse for Lloyd, and that helps his situation. Of course, if he's expecting scholarship restrictions, I find his decision to lock up 3 scholarships on true C's like Ballo, Koloko and Brown to be a little baffling.

Dunno, just my random thoughts on it.

Dark theory has to be true (believe that 100% in my bones).

Can't imagine that we get docked more than 3 scholarships over a three year period (meaning we could go -1, -1, -1 or knock it out with 10 scholarship players in a single season). Is there a benefit in doing a single scholarship this year? I don't see it. Maybe he does 2 now to get it off the table and leave at most one remaining?

But good lord if that's the plan Arizona is taking way more of a hit here than any other program thus far - just rolling over and taking it. I mean USC basketball paid two players and caused them to be ineligible - ten years after a similar violation - and got PROBATION. WTF are we doing if we're taking a post season ban and multiple scholarships lost?

(also, thank you Spiff)

[RondaeShimmy]

[U.P. Zona Fan]

I was hoping we'd get bakamus, that is awesome, makes it easier to recruit if they see improvement in developing players.

[Spaceman Spiff]

How do we feel about Lloyd seemingly "self sanctioning" our scholarship limit this season? Because I fucking hate it. Now, I'm not having a good day, so I fucking hate a lot of things today, so please give me some feedback: yay or nay to self imposing a scholarship limit in order to get that out of the way?

First, sorry you're having a bad day, man.

This is my cynical side speaking. I wonder if this is not partially a way to limit expectations.

Why do I think that? It makes very little sense to me that Arizona would self sanction in two different ways at two different times. Why tourney ban in December, then do a full round 2 of self sanctions a few months later?

It would make far more sense to me to announce a single set of self sanctions that fits what we believe our culpability is for the allegations in the NOA. Piecemealing it makes no strategic sense.

Or perhaps the dark theory is true. The tourney ban was solely a way for Robbins to leverage firing Miller, so Robbins took the tourney from the players to handicap Miller and decided to figure out the rest later.

I do think scholarship restrictions create an excuse for Lloyd, and that helps his situation. Of course, if he's expecting scholarship restrictions, I find his decision to lock up 3 scholarships on true C's like Ballo, Koloko and Brown to be a little baffling.

Dunno, just my random thoughts on it.

Dark theory has to be true (believe that 100% in my bones).

Can't imagine that we get docked more than 3 scholarships over a three year period (meaning we could go -1, -1, -1 or knock it out with 10 scholarship players in a single season). Is there a benefit in doing a single scholarship this year? I don't see it. Maybe he does 2 now to get it off the table and leave at most one remaining?

But good lord if that's the plan Arizona is taking way more of a hit here than any other program thus far - just rolling over and taking it. I mean USC basketball paid two players and caused them to be ineligible - ten years after a similar violation - and got PROBATION. WTF are we doing if we're taking a post season ban and multiple scholarships lost?

(also, thank you Spiff)

I agree with that. That's why I feel like it's fishy enough to say it might also be a tool for limiting expectations on Lloyd.

If it's really a legit punishment in excess of what others have gotten so far, why would Lloyd seemingly not know exactly the count or why is that # not out? It's self sanction, so we control it.

It's going to look bad if it looks like we "sanctioned" spots we couldn't fill, so I don't understand the wisdom of announcing it now...unless it's a excuse for why Lloyd can't go balls to the wall immediately. Just most of all, how the f*** did Robbins tourney ban us with no consultation in December and here we are in April where Lloyd is dropping potential sanction info in interviews?

I'm looking for logic and not finding it, so I get suspicious about other motivations.

[TucsonClip]

How do we feel about Lloyd seemingly "self sanctioning" our scholarship limit this season? Because I fucking hate it. Now, I'm not having a good day, so I fucking hate a lot of things today, so please give me some feedback: yay or nay to self imposing a scholarship limit in order to get that out of the way?

What gives you the impression Lloyd is doing this? IMO Tibet and Dezonie were not seeing the floor anytime soon.

[YoDeFoe]

I was hoping we'd get bakamus, that is awesome, makes it easier to recruit if they see improvement in developing players.

Two national champions developing our guards now - Terry and Bakamus

[YoDeFoe]

How do we feel about Lloyd seemingly "self sanctioning" our scholarship limit this season? Because I fucking hate it. Now, I'm not having a good day, so I fucking hate a lot of things today, so please give me some feedback: yay or nay to self imposing a scholarship limit in order to get that out of the way?

What gives you the impression Lloyd is doing this? IMO Tibet and Dezonie were not seeing the floor anytime soon.

Lloyd's interview where he mentioned anticipating scholarships... see below from The 2021-2022 Season Thread:

Was on a zoom call with JF, Adia and TL. Lloyd was asked about recruiting and says he was working with the thought that he would have some scholarship reductions.

He also said he was a big fan of size and dumping in in the post. Talked about wanting his post guys to force the refs to call 3 second violations

[TucsonClip]

How do we feel about Lloyd seemingly "self sanctioning" our scholarship limit this season? Because I fucking hate it. Now, I'm not having a good day, so I fucking hate a lot of things today, so please give me some feedback: yay or nay to self imposing a scholarship limit in order to get that out of the way?

What gives you the impression Lloyd is doing this? IMO Tibet and Dezonie were not seeing the floor anytime soon.

Lloyd's interview where he mentioned anticipating scholarships... see below from The 2021-2022 Season Thread:

Was on a zoom call with JF, Adia and TL. Lloyd was asked about recruiting and says he was working with the thought that he would have some scholarship reductions.

He also said he was a big fan of size and dumping in in the post. Talked about wanting his post guys to force the refs to call 3 second violations

My read was that he knows there is a future likelihood of sanctions via the IARP. Not necessarily that he needs to reserve scholarships for next year because of this thought. That stuff always works itself out. We could theoretically see Tyty go pro (if we land him), Benn go pro, Zu go pro, and at least one guy transfer. That opens up four rides. Lets say two are taken away. That leaves two left, plus the likelihood if Zu goes, so does his brother. It is a possibility that doesnt happen, but I am not sure you see Koloko AND Brown around next year, maybe not either, if we still have Zu, Terry, Ballo, Anderson, and likely another 4 we bring in this class.

To me, it feels like he is trying to stock the program with guys he likes, instead of guys he is running off next season because they didnt play, dont fit, and now we lose that scholarship via sanctions. The NCAA isnt taking away someone's scholarship.

[TheCat]

I think it would mean he's working under the assumption of a future scholarship reduction, and therefore planning to fill those fewer scholarships with more impactful players in the future, rather than bringing on longer-term projects sooner who would prevent future recruiting while contributing relatively less in the short term.

There is only one way that self sanctioning should occur. That is if you don't get the quality of players you are seeking. In other words no scholarships for walk-ons. Treat that as a self sanction. If you can get the players you want bring them in. I hope that is what he is doing.

[IndianaZonaFan]

I’m cool with it. I see it this way. If you can’t get Arizona-good players, leave those spots empty and call it a self-sanction. Basically saving that spot for someone you feel is a better fit next year. Instead of getting someone who is not up to par and then having to push them or someone else out next year to get that better player.

[azgreg]

I take it as he's just anticipating scholarship penalties.

[Longhorned]

I take it as he's just anticipating scholarship penalties.

So then you're the kind of person who sees a hubcap in a road and just concludes that it fell off a passing vehicle, without positing an alien spaceship abduction of a car and stuff like that.

[azgreg]

I take it as he's just anticipating scholarship penalties.

So then you're the kind of person who sees a hubcap in a road and just concludes that it fell off a passing vehicle, without positing an alien spaceship abduction of a car and stuff like that.

True story.

[wyo-cat]

I saw Gronk drop a hubcap out of a helicopter once.

Another reason for it to be in the road.

[EastCoastCat]

I take it that CTL thinks he’s so good that he doesn’t need all of those stinkin’ scholarships.

[Postmaster]

I wouldn’t be surprised if FESPN, I mean ncaa, hits us with scholarship reduction even if we self impose now.
Seems like now it’s just trying to game the system.

[NickyBCats]

Self impose what? Lol

[Postmaster]

Self impose a scholarship reduction

[AZCatGirl]

He's not self imposing anything. He's just assuming we're going to be hit with scholarship reductions and planning accordingly.

[SunnyAZ]

Nico is so interesting to me. I don't know whether his evaluations were off or if he was just immature, but he ended up bringing much less in his one year at AZ than many expected. Would he have done bigger things in a possible sophomore season? Probably, but who knows? Kerr has given him a chance with the Warriors, and since that team has injuries galore, Nico is probably getting more minutes as a rookie than some expected. He's not a trainwreck; he's just not the next-level player many had him pegged as.

Anyway, I couldn't tell you how Tyty's game and prospects compare to Nico's. In the footage I've seen, Tyty looks more athletic and seems to have better instincts on offense.

nico was asked to do something he isn't that good at, be the primary creator. he is more of a off ball, take advantage of advantages other ppl create type player than the one doing the creating. no one else on the team could it tho so he had to.

[U.P. Zona Fan]

How do we feel about Lloyd seemingly "self sanctioning" our scholarship limit this season? Because I fucking hate it. Now, I'm not having a good day, so I fucking hate a lot of things today, so please give me some feedback: yay or nay to self imposing a scholarship limit in order to get that out of the way?

What gives you the impression Lloyd is doing this? IMO Tibet and Dezonie were not seeing the floor anytime soon.

Lloyd's interview where he mentioned anticipating scholarships... see below from The 2021-2022 Season Thread:

Was on a zoom call with JF, Adia and TL. Lloyd was asked about recruiting and says he was working with the thought that he would have some scholarship reductions.

He also said he was a big fan of size and dumping in in the post. Talked about wanting his post guys to force the refs to call 3 second violations

My read was that he knows there is a future likelihood of sanctions via the IARP. Not necessarily that he needs to reserve scholarships for next year because of this thought. That stuff always works itself out. We could theoretically see Tyty go pro (if we land him), Benn go pro, Zu go pro, and at least one guy transfer. That opens up four rides. Lets say two are taken away. That leaves two left, plus the likelihood if Zu goes, so does his brother. It is a possibility that doesnt happen, but I am not sure you see Koloko AND Brown around next year, maybe not either, if we still have Zu, Terry, Ballo, Anderson, and likely another 4 we bring in this class.

To me, it feels like he is trying to stock the program with guys he likes, instead of guys he is running off next season because they didnt play, dont fit, and now we lose that scholarship via sanctions. The NCAA isnt taking away someone's scholarship.

Is he running people off? I may have missed something but I wouldn't think that would be a good look.
However, I don't know anything, I just quote people like Clip to raise the overall level of intelligence of my post. Don't want to bring down the board.

[YoDeFoe]

He's not self imposing anything. He's just assuming we're going to be hit with scholarship reductions and planning accordingly.

Functionally, that's self imposing. If your actions are changed because of a belief that you'll be restricted, you're operating under that restriction whether it comes to exists or not.

If Tommy takes 12 scholarship players into this season instead of 13 because he's anticipating a scholarship reduction in the future and wants to plan for the roster flexibility he'll need, that might be good foresight and planning but it's also self imposing a scholarship ban for this season.

[EastCoastCat]

I am reserving judgement until CTL is done with setting up his roster for next year. Since nothing is finalized I am not assuming he's "self sanctioning" jack shit.

The only thing I will assume now is that for the most part he is giving scholarships to the type of players he wants to fit his style of play. He shouldn't dole them out to just anyone, especially if they do not serve the greater good of what he is trying to do.

Having said that, he probably had to retain a few of the current team members for continuity purposes and to set a foundation.

[gronk4heisman]

He's not self imposing anything. He's just assuming we're going to be hit with scholarship reductions and planning accordingly.

Functionally, that's self imposing. If your actions are changed because of a belief that you'll be restricted, you're operating under that restriction whether it comes to exists or not.

If Tommy takes 12 scholarship players into this season instead of 13 because he's anticipating a scholarship reduction in the future and wants to plan for the roster flexibility he'll need, that might be good foresight and planning but it's also self imposing a scholarship ban for this season.

Especially when one of those 12 scholarships is essentially already forfeited with Zu's twin. Currently we have 8 players who can compete for playing time and someone like Dezonie and Tibet who are projects who may or may not pay off should not be thrown away (which I believe they were shown the door indirectly through conversations with Lloyd) unless you have a plan to fill those spots. I have only heard for sure we are in on Tyty. I am hoping there are some other guys that we are in on as well, including a third ball handler along with Tyty or another starting PG.

[Spaceman Spiff]

He's not self imposing anything. He's just assuming we're going to be hit with scholarship reductions and planning accordingly.

Functionally, that's self imposing. If your actions are changed because of a belief that you'll be restricted, you're operating under that restriction whether it comes to exists or not.

If Tommy takes 12 scholarship players into this season instead of 13 because he's anticipating a scholarship reduction in the future and wants to plan for the roster flexibility he'll need, that might be good foresight and planning but it's also self imposing a scholarship ban for this season.

I'd agree with this. To me, non-self sanction is working to build flexibility in a coming recruiting class.

A guy like Dezonie is how you do that. Recruit him with the understanding he has a scholarship, but if we get sanctioned, we can't give him the scholarship and he'd have to look elsewhere.

That way, you only pull the trigger upon formal sanction. I think you can still do that and be honest and up front with recruits. Or you build a spot that's reserved for a grad or traditional transfer.

We'll clearly have open spots in 22-23 regardless. I'd be surprised if Benn and Tubelis return. Tyty does not seem into more than one year in college, so if we get him, that's at least 3 early exits to compensate for, probably 4 with little Tubelis.

[Postmaster]

And then how do you tell the iarp “that counts as one of the reductions”?
Can’t the IARP just say when the reductions must happen?

[Chicat]

Recruit him with the understanding he has a scholarship, but if we get sanctioned, we can't give him the scholarship and he'd have to look elsewhere.

This might have been the exact conversation that led to his decommitment. He and his family may have decided that looking for a better situation now would be better than looking for one after not getting a ton of court time this next season.

[BeardownZonaZona]

Recruit him with the understanding he has a scholarship, but if we get sanctioned, we can't give him the scholarship and he'd have to look elsewhere.

This might have been the exact conversation that led to his decommitment. He and his family may have decided that looking for a better situation now would be better than looking for one after not getting a ton of court time this next season.

100% was most likely the convo they had. Also, nowadays kids don't sit for two years straight, they just transfer. Wouldn't doubt he plays garbage time this year then just would've transfered out anyways. This was the best option for both sides

[Spaceman Spiff]

And then how do you tell the iarp “that counts as one of the reductions”?
Can’t the IARP just say when the reductions must happen?

I fully agree. That's a major reason I don't get Lloyd saying he's doing this without a school announcement. Unless the school formally does it, it likely isn't going to help with the IARP.

If it doesn't help with the IARP, what are we doing?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Recruit him with the understanding he has a scholarship, but if we get sanctioned, we can't give him the scholarship and he'd have to look elsewhere.

This might have been the exact conversation that led to his decommitment. He and his family may have decided that looking for a better situation now would be better than looking for one after not getting a ton of court time this next season.

This sort of thing doesn't bug me one bit. I'd prefer a coach is honest with players about what their role truly will be.

If Lloyd doesn't see Dezonie as the type of player who will contribute, it's better to let him find a school that is a fit right away. It worries me about our guard depth bc we are super thin there, but I have no issue with a coach telling a player he doesn't fit the new approach if he doesn't fit.

The ultimate wisdom of it depends on who Lloyd gets as a guard instead. I saw Dezonie as a guy who was unlikely to play year 1, could be a spot guy year 2 and a rotation guy in years 3 and 4. The unknown about Lloyd so far is who he sees as guard targets. We were already on Tyty, and he's of a caliber everyone would be interested. Who does Lloyd recruit as developmental guards.

[azcat49]

You almost have to wonder if there is already discussions between the member institutions and the IARP

[TucsonClip]

I'd agree with this. To me, non-self sanction is working to build flexibility in a coming recruiting class.

A guy like Dezonie is how you do that. Recruit him with the understanding he has a scholarship, but if we get sanctioned, we can't give him the scholarship and he'd have to look elsewhere.

Telling a kid we are going to take away his scholarship because of a reduction would be as bad a look there possibly could be.

The conversation was likely, "There aren't going to be minutes available to you for at least a few years. You arent the best fit for our system, and we can only have so many developmental guys due to pending sanctions. The last thing we want to happen is for you to to stay, see what I am telling you play out in real time, then decide to leave next year, blowing your one time transfer option. All of this can be avoided, you can pick a school that better fits your needs, and you keep your future options open."

[RondaeShimmy]

Dezonie is more fit for Miller's system tbh

[YoDeFoe]

And then how do you tell the iarp “that counts as one of the reductions”?
Can’t the IARP just say when the reductions must happen?

I fully agree. That's a major reason I don't get Lloyd saying he's doing this without a school announcement. Unless the school formally does it, it likely isn't going to help with the IARP.

If it doesn't help with the IARP, what are we doing?

Yeah I think so long as it is announced before the season starts we'd get credit for it, just equally surprised to hear Lloyd mention it in an interview without a formal announcement from the program - but maybe that depends on how recruiting goes.

For evidence of self sanctioning scholarships ahead of an NCAA judgement, see USC post-OJ Mayo (one year post season ban, two scholarships reduced, both self sanctioned and accepted without further penalty).

[Jefe]

EP 153 with Wilbon, RJ and Channing make some excellent points about the contract leak and how horrible the hiring process was handled. At 25 mins: https://open.spotify.com/show/4Q4qqC6UxoTB09ePc14AbB

PPU still has this $2.88M tweet pinned at the top. Was the contract info posted on premium and they made it public? This was 1 day after firing Sean

[Beachcat97]

Nico is so interesting to me. I don't know whether his evaluations were off or if he was just immature, but he ended up bringing much less in his one year at AZ than many expected. Would he have done bigger things in a possible sophomore season? Probably, but who knows? Kerr has given him a chance with the Warriors, and since that team has injuries galore, Nico is probably getting more minutes as a rookie than some expected. He's not a trainwreck; he's just not the next-level player many had him pegged as.

Anyway, I couldn't tell you how Tyty's game and prospects compare to Nico's. In the footage I've seen, Tyty looks more athletic and seems to have better instincts on offense.

nico was asked to do something he isn't that good at, be the primary creator. he is more of a off ball, take advantage of advantages other ppl create type player than the one doing the creating. no one else on the team could it tho so he had to.

Fair enough, but Miller is the one who did the asking. It's the job of our coaching staff to recognize a player's potential and limitations. If Nico was expected to be an alpha, all-world guard from day one, then his evaluation wasn't exactly rock solid, was it? And we can contextualize Nico's performance within the larger roster situation, but in the end, the starting PG has fairly large expectations. Nico averaged 5 APG. It's not bad for a true freshman PG, and he also had an injury.

I don't think I'm on a limb in saying that more was expected from Nico in his one year at AZ. Nnaji was far and away our most valuable freshman that season. Averaged 16 and 8, and shot 57% FG. Green put up decent numbers too. It's a shame we didn't get to see this team's postseason play out. Maybe they would've found their stride and surprised people.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Nico is so interesting to me. I don't know whether his evaluations were off or if he was just immature, but he ended up bringing much less in his one year at AZ than many expected. Would he have done bigger things in a possible sophomore season? Probably, but who knows? Kerr has given him a chance with the Warriors, and since that team has injuries galore, Nico is probably getting more minutes as a rookie than some expected. He's not a trainwreck; he's just not the next-level player many had him pegged as.

Anyway, I couldn't tell you how Tyty's game and prospects compare to Nico's. In the footage I've seen, Tyty looks more athletic and seems to have better instincts on offense.

nico was asked to do something he isn't that good at, be the primary creator. he is more of a off ball, take advantage of advantages other ppl create type player than the one doing the creating. no one else on the team could it tho so he had to.

Fair enough, but Miller is the one who did the asking. It's the job of our coaching staff to recognize a player's potential and limitations. If Nico was expected to be an alpha, all-world guard from day one, then his evaluation wasn't exactly rock solid, was it? And we can contextualize Nico's performance within the larger roster situation, but in the end, the starting PG has fairly large expectations. Nico averaged 5 APG. It's not bad for a true freshman PG, and he also had an injury.

I don't think I'm on a limb in saying that more was expected from Nico in his one year at AZ. Nnaji was far and away our most valuable freshman that season. Averaged 16 and 8, and shot 57% FG. Green put up decent numbers too. It's a shame we didn't get to see this team's postseason play out. Maybe they would've found their stride and surprised people.

I do think you're being a little overly critical of Nico. He struggled shooting at times, but gave us 14 and 5.3 on decent efficiency.

Cole Anthony was ranked higher, and got 18 and 4 with basically the same efficiency on a crappy UNC team. Tyrese Maxey was right after Nico and got 14, 4 and 3 on a decent UK team. Tre Mann was the #2 PG on 247 (Anthony and Maxey were classed as SG's) and had 5 points and 0.7 assists per game as a freshman.

My point being, Nico's production was pretty in line with other similarly ranked small guards in his class and the best PG in his class. Take a look at the other PG's, Tyrell Terry is the only comparable one, at least in the top ten. I didn't cross check beyond that.

https://247sports.com/Season/2019-Baske ... osition=PG

[gronk4heisman]

EP 153 with Wilbon, RJ and Channing make some excellent points about the contract leak and how horrible the hiring process was handled. At 25 mins: https://open.spotify.com/show/4Q4qqC6UxoTB09ePc14AbB

PPU still has this $2.88M tweet pinned at the top. Was the contract info posted on premium and they made it public? This was 1 day after firing Sean

I honestly could not understand any of their arguments. They went from saying there are no black coaches in the Pac 12 to we should have interviewed Breilmeier and Brase, to we should have interviewed 10 alumni so they can practice interviewing and how that will help "grow the tree", to how Arizona is to good a job to just be the best of the west so we need to interview Arizona guys. It was all over the place and really just sounded like sour grapes because one of their friends who are not really qualified were not hired.

[Beachcat97]

I suppose we could compare Nico's freshman year to other big-minute AZ PGs in their first year.

Nico - 14ppg, 5.3apg, 2.5rpg, 39%FG, 79%FT
Bibby - 13.5, 5.2, 3.2, 44%, 70%
Gardner - 12.6, 4.8, 3.7, 37%, 72%
Shakur - 9.4, 4.5, 3.6, 51%, 80%
Bayless - 19.7, 4.0, 2.7, 45%, 83%
McConnell (junior transfer) - 8.4, 5.3, 3.6, 45%, 62%

Statistically, Nico compares VERY favorably to our best PGs. I would ask, Spiff, whether you consider Nico's overall impact as a freshman to be as significant as some of these others. Are these statistical measures the only way we can account for a player's impact? How many big shots did Nico hit? How many times did he come up big or flat in a critical game? With some of these others -- particularly Bibby, Gardner and McConnell -- their presence on the court was often the difference between a win and a loss. Is the same true of Nico?

Anyway, didn't mean to drag this on. Appreciate the conversation.

[zonagrad]

I suppose we could compare Nico's freshman year to other big-minute AZ PGs in their first year.

Nico - 14ppg, 5.3apg, 2.5rpg, 39%FG, 79%FT
Bibby - 13.5, 5.2, 3.2, 44%, 70%
Gardner - 12.6, 4.8, 3.7, 37%, 72%
Shakur - 9.4, 4.5, 3.6, 51%, 80%
Bayless - 19.7, 4.0, 2.7, 45%, 83%
McConnell (junior transfer) - 8.4, 5.3, 3.6, 45%, 62%

Statistically, Nico compares VERY favorably to our best PGs. I would ask, Spiff, whether you consider Nico's overall impact as a freshman to be as significant as some of these others. Are these statistical measures the only way we can account for a player's impact? How many big shots did Nico hit? How many times did he come up big or flat in a critical game? With some of these others -- particularly Bibby, Gardner and McConnell -- their presence on the court was often the difference between a win and a loss. Is the same true of Nico?

Anyway, didn't mean to drag this on. Appreciate the conversation.

How many games would Arizona have won without Nico? For a freshman, he had a very good year. And he did not enjoy the complimentary players of Bibby, Gardner, Shakur and McConnell. The sad part to me is that Nico should've stayed another year or two at least.

[Beachcat97]

I suppose we could compare Nico's freshman year to other big-minute AZ PGs in their first year.

Nico - 14ppg, 5.3apg, 2.5rpg, 39%FG, 79%FT
Bibby - 13.5, 5.2, 3.2, 44%, 70%
Gardner - 12.6, 4.8, 3.7, 37%, 72%
Shakur - 9.4, 4.5, 3.6, 51%, 80%
Bayless - 19.7, 4.0, 2.7, 45%, 83%
McConnell (junior transfer) - 8.4, 5.3, 3.6, 45%, 62%

Statistically, Nico compares VERY favorably to our best PGs. I would ask, Spiff, whether you consider Nico's overall impact as a freshman to be as significant as some of these others. Are these statistical measures the only way we can account for a player's impact? How many big shots did Nico hit? How many times did he come up big or flat in a critical game? With some of these others -- particularly Bibby, Gardner and McConnell -- their presence on the court was often the difference between a win and a loss. Is the same true of Nico?

Anyway, didn't mean to drag this on. Appreciate the conversation.

How many games would Arizona have won without Nico? For a freshman, he had a very good year. And he did not enjoy the complimentary players of Bibby, Gardner, Shakur and McConnell. The sad part to me is that Nico should've stayed another year or two at least.

It wasn't at all surprising that he was OAD though, right? Wasn't it pretty much understood that he, Josh and Zeke would all be OAD?