let's talk '21

[BeardownZonaZona]

Marcus Carr was supposed to be going to Kentucky

Arizona should jump on him

Carr probably won't pick a school for a very long time. I don't think he decides until mid to late June. He 100% intends on participating in the full nba draft process, and may even stay in if he likes what he hears. Draft is in July. Don't think Carr makes any decision on colleges until late June. Carr would 100% be a stud and a veteran leader, but when you really don't have a point guard, not sure we prioritize a guy who won't decide for a long time and may still just go pro

[BeardownZonaZona]

There's about zero chance Kerr will be our starting one guard. We'll get a transfer if we miss on Tyty. We'll be fine

Wasn't this sort of the line when Simpson decommitted, then when Dezonie decommitted and then again when Akinjo left?

The idea there's talent on the horizon, well, Tyty was clearly what we were leaning on.

I'll be real, since Lloyd took over, we've lost Brown, Akinjo, Simpson and Dezonie and added Ballo. That's not a good add/loss ratio. Maybe he makes it up, but the longer it takes, the harder it is to convince me it's an actual plan and not desperately patching holes.

Dude. Oregon literally fills their rotation in July and August. We'll be fine.

[Beachcat97]

Yeah, I wouldn't rule out Tyty quite yet. When I said last week he'd probably end up at UK or the G-League, Choo called me an idiot, haha. Which I took to mean: we've still got a great shot at him.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Marcus Carr was supposed to be going to Kentucky

Arizona should jump on him

15.6 shots per game, 38% fg, 31% from 3.

People thought Akinjo was a ball dominant gunner, Carr is like a poor man's Akinjo.

[NickyBCats]

TyTy is coming to Arizona barring something crazy! Book it!

[EVCat]

I'll be real, since Lloyd took over, we've lost Brown, Akinjo, Simpson and Dezonie and added Ballo. That's not a good add/loss ratio. Maybe he makes it up, but the longer it takes, the harder it is to convince me it's an actual plan and not desperately patching holes.

To be fair, if we point out who Lloyd "lost", we need to consider who he convinced to stay that may not have stayed for another coach (Kerr, Ben, etc). If this is just "we would have had this team had Miller stayed" vs "this is what we have with Lloyd" comparisons, then noting the losses from the Miller roster is valid, but can only be compared to what the team ends up being at season's start, Lloyd's roster, not in the beginning of the transfer market that works two ways.

But if we are specifically making a judgment about Lloyd through listing who "Lloyd lost" and "Lloyd got", then Lloyd got Kerr for certain, and we know of others that would likely have left for any other coach we had a shot at on our B list. So, to judging Lloyd's work, we can't pin the transfers out on him without crediting him for pulling back the players who were either in the portal or leaning that way, but stayed after talking with him, and we certainly can't judge much of anything on May 6 in a transfer market with over 1000 kids in play and one top notch PG who still hasn't signed.

[BeardownZonaZona]

TyTy is coming to Arizona barring something crazy! Book it!

You hearing some good stuff?

[ChooChooCat]

Feels a lot like we've squandered any momentum from hiring Tommy Boy and putting together the staff. Got the initial transfer and 2022 commitment but since then it's been a steady drip of kids leaving and nothing else.

Patience.

[gronk4heisman]

Terrell Brown is looking really good right now, has he signed the paperwork with UW?

[ChooChooCat]

Yeah, I wouldn't rule out Tyty quite yet. When I said last week he'd probably end up at UK or the G-League, Choo called me an idiot, haha. Which I took to mean: we've still got a great shot at him.

Lol well your reasoning for it is what made you an idiot Beach.

[ChooChooCat]

Fwiw there is no Plan B currently. It would be someone either A. You’ve never heard of before or B. Not in the portal at the moment.

[YoDeFoe]

More names will come into the portal. We'll be fine. Sahvir Wheeler is still out there. Marcus Carr is going through the nba process but I doubt he stays and he'd probably be the best option, he's a proven star. More names will see us looking for point guards and jump in the portal. We'll have options. Always the possibility of trying to snag a euro point guard. I don't think our roster will be set until July or August in all honesty. There's going to be a ton of quality players jumping in the portal in the summer. Lots of great options

I don't consider either Wheeler or Carr a good option, let alone great ones. Wheeler is small an can't shoot. Carr loves to call his own number despite being an inefficient scorer (though maybe that's a result of the lack of talent around him).

[RondaeShimmy]

Marcus Carr was supposed to be going to Kentucky

Arizona should jump on him

15.6 shots per game, 38% fg, 31% from 3.

People thought Akinjo was a ball dominant gunner, Carr is like a poor man's Akinjo.

I don't think Carr is a serious possibility but he's slightly more efficient with creating his own shots

[Alieberman]

Feels a lot like we've squandered any momentum from hiring Tommy Boy and putting together the staff. Got the initial transfer and 2022 commitment but since then it's been a steady drip of kids leaving and nothing else.

Patience.

Patience? Are you new to these boards?

[Chicat]

Feels a lot like we've squandered any momentum from hiring Tommy Boy and putting together the staff. Got the initial transfer and 2022 commitment but since then it's been a steady drip of kids leaving and nothing else.

Patience.

I’m fine. But I’m also leery of it becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy that this is a total rebuild.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'll be real, since Lloyd took over, we've lost Brown, Akinjo, Simpson and Dezonie and added Ballo. That's not a good add/loss ratio. Maybe he makes it up, but the longer it takes, the harder it is to convince me it's an actual plan and not desperately patching holes.

To be fair, if we point out who Lloyd "lost", we need to consider who he convinced to stay that may not have stayed for another coach (Kerr, Ben, etc). If this is just "we would have had this team had Miller stayed" comparisons, then it is valid, but can only be compared to what the team ends up being at season's start, not in the beginning of the transfer market that works two ways.

But if we are specifically saying "Lloyd lost" and "Lloyd got", then Lloyd got Kerr for certain, and we know of others that would likely have left for any other coach we had a shot at on our B list. So, to judging Lloyd's work, we can't pin the transfers out on him without crediting him for pulling back the players who were either in the portal or leaning that way, but stayed after talking with him, and we certainly can't judge much of anything on May 6 in a transfer market with over 1000 kids in play and one top notch PG who still hasn't signed.

I think the most natural comparison is the roster Miller would have had, which would have been Brown, Koloko, Tubelis, Benn, Terry, Kriisa, Akinjo, our 3 recruits plus Aiken and likely another guard.

Beyond that, it's hard to say how another coach would have done because no other coach was close enough to the job to make that more than speculation.

I've said before final judgment on Lloyd's first offseason should wait until the offseason is over because there are a lot of dominos. I still feel like that, but if you ask me how things are going so far, losing Akinjo, Brown, Simpson and Dezonie with only Ballo to offset and it looking like Tyty isn't coming...so far, that is not blowing me away.

It isn't over, but all the above either definitely happened or seems likely to happen.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Marcus Carr was supposed to be going to Kentucky

Arizona should jump on him

15.6 shots per game, 38% fg, 31% from 3.

People thought Akinjo was a ball dominant gunner, Carr is like a poor man's Akinjo.

I don't think Carr is a serious possibility but he's slightly more efficient with creating his own shots

I'm not gonna lie and say I have tremedous familiarity with that stat, but neither Akinjo or Carr were super efficient. Akinjo shot about 40% from 3 vs 31% and outpaced Carr in assists.

To the extent your stat includes someone creating their own shots, at the % Carr was making them, I'd rather have him creating fewer shots.

Again, not super familiar with your stat, but if it counts Carr creating for Carr, the caveat on Arizona is every shot Carr/Akinjo takes is a shot a higher efficiency guy like Mathurin or Tubelis does not take.

[Longhorned]

More than half of you are shining a clam goiter, if you know what I'm saying.

[RondaeShimmy]

[quote
I'm not gonna lie and say I have tremedous familiarity with that stat, but neither Akinjo or Carr were super efficient. Akinjo shot about 40% from 3 vs 31% and outpaced Carr in assists.

To the extent your stat includes someone creating their own shots, at the % Carr was making them, I'd rather have him creating fewer shots.

Again, not super familiar with your stat, but if it counts Carr creating for Carr, the caveat on Arizona is every shot Carr/Akinjo takes is a shot a higher efficiency guy like Mathurin or Tubelis does not take.

If you're going to have a ball hog, aka creating his own shots (unassisted), you want him to be at least efficient at it.

Carr was slightly better than Akinjo. Both of them weren't good if you want others taking more shots. Guys like Terry likely wouldn't be back if Akinjo came back.

[RondaeShimmy]

Kentucky got another crystal ball from a Duke writer.

Likely a bandwagoner

[ChooChooCat]

Feels a lot like we've squandered any momentum from hiring Tommy Boy and putting together the staff. Got the initial transfer and 2022 commitment but since then it's been a steady drip of kids leaving and nothing else.

Patience.

I’m fine. But I’m also leery of it becoming a self-fulfilling prophecy that this is a total rebuild.

Here’s what Lloyd is returning:

Kriisa
Mathurin
Terry
Koloko
Tubelis

Here’s what Miller had returning:

Wise
Fogg
Judkins
Lavender
Jacobson
Horne

Even if Lloyd only adds corpses he was left a better non-rebuilding situation than Miller was.

[ChooChooCat]

Kentucky got another crystal ball from a Duke writer.

Likely a bandwagoner

When I said Kentucky is telling every body they’re landing him I wasn’t speaking in hyperbole.

[Spaceman Spiff]

[quote
I'm not gonna lie and say I have tremedous familiarity with that stat, but neither Akinjo or Carr were super efficient. Akinjo shot about 40% from 3 vs 31% and outpaced Carr in assists.

To the extent your stat includes someone creating their own shots, at the % Carr was making them, I'd rather have him creating fewer shots.

Again, not super familiar with your stat, but if it counts Carr creating for Carr, the caveat on Arizona is every shot Carr/Akinjo takes is a shot a higher efficiency guy like Mathurin or Tubelis does not take.

If you're going to have a ball hog, aka creating his own shots (unassisted), you want him to be at least efficient at it.

Carr was slightly better than Akinjo. Both of them weren't good if you want others taking more shots. Guys like Terry likely wouldn't be back if Akinjo came back.

Efficient at what, creating shots that don't go in?

Not being a jerk, but the overall %'s don't line up for me. Also, Carr was the engine of the #76 AdjO team on Kenpom, Akinjo the engine of the #15 AdjO team.

As far as guys leaving because of Akinjo...I am not an insider, but I'm not aware anyone who is has said that. I do know some have said Akinjo wasn't well-liked, but Choo and others seem to have basically maintained our 7 man core was returning until Miller was fired.

[ChooChooCat]

[quote
I'm not gonna lie and say I have tremedous familiarity with that stat, but neither Akinjo or Carr were super efficient. Akinjo shot about 40% from 3 vs 31% and outpaced Carr in assists.

To the extent your stat includes someone creating their own shots, at the % Carr was making them, I'd rather have him creating fewer shots.

Again, not super familiar with your stat, but if it counts Carr creating for Carr, the caveat on Arizona is every shot Carr/Akinjo takes is a shot a higher efficiency guy like Mathurin or Tubelis does not take.

If you're going to have a ball hog, aka creating his own shots (unassisted), you want him to be at least efficient at it.

Carr was slightly better than Akinjo. Both of them weren't good if you want others taking more shots. Guys like Terry likely wouldn't be back if Akinjo came back.

Guys I already said if we land a PG through the portal it’ll be a guy that’s currently not in said portal.

[BeardownZonaZona]

Remy Martin and Alonzo Verge got a year of eligibility left. Make the call Lloyd!

[84Cat]

Remy Martin and Alonzo Verge got a year of eligibility left. Make the call Lloyd!

Are you looking to get down voted?

[BeardownZonaZona]

Remy Martin and Alonzo Verge got a year of eligibility left. Make the call Lloyd!

Are you looking to get down voted?

I mean if you insist

[UofAlum05]

My biggest fear when we canned Miller and hired Lloyd was that Lloyd wouldn't know how to play in the dirt and tip toe the line in recruitments like this. You don't win at Arizona with squeaky clean development player recruitments.

[Spaceman Spiff]

[quote
I'm not gonna lie and say I have tremedous familiarity with that stat, but neither Akinjo or Carr were super efficient. Akinjo shot about 40% from 3 vs 31% and outpaced Carr in assists.

To the extent your stat includes someone creating their own shots, at the % Carr was making them, I'd rather have him creating fewer shots.

Again, not super familiar with your stat, but if it counts Carr creating for Carr, the caveat on Arizona is every shot Carr/Akinjo takes is a shot a higher efficiency guy like Mathurin or Tubelis does not take.

If you're going to have a ball hog, aka creating his own shots (unassisted), you want him to be at least efficient at it.

Carr was slightly better than Akinjo. Both of them weren't good if you want others taking more shots. Guys like Terry likely wouldn't be back if Akinjo came back.

Guys I already said if we land a PG through the portal it’ll be a guy that’s currently not in said portal.

Maybe I want to fight RondaeShimmy about the relative efficiency of a guy we no longer have vs a guy we're not gonna get?

[BeardownZonaZona]

Bossi at 247 saying he thinks Tyty makes his announcement before the 15th. I think it's over

[RondaeShimmy]

Kentucky got another crystal ball from a Duke writer.

Likely a bandwagoner

When I said Kentucky is telling every body they’re landing him I wasn’t speaking in hyperbole.

So they're trying to Jedi mind trick him into commiting or something?

[ChooChooCat]

My biggest fear when we canned Miller and hired Lloyd was that Lloyd wouldn't know how to play in the dirt and tip toe the line in recruitments like this. You don't win at Arizona with squeaky clean development player recruitments.

It’s not as if Gonzaga wasn’t landing players of this caliber. To be fair though Gonzaga had way more time to identify and work on guys that fit their culture. Lloyd isn’t in that position at Arizona for obvious reasons. So he decided to work on the best local guy he could knowing he’d be around only one year, so the culture didn’t matter as much.

[ChooChooCat]

Kentucky got another crystal ball from a Duke writer.

Likely a bandwagoner

When I said Kentucky is telling every body they’re landing him I wasn’t speaking in hyperbole.

So they're trying to Jedi mind trick him into commiting or something?

From what I understand he’ll commit to Kentucky publicly before the date he put out.

[BeardownZonaZona]

Kentucky got another crystal ball from a Duke writer.

Likely a bandwagoner

When I said Kentucky is telling every body they’re landing him I wasn’t speaking in hyperbole.

So they're trying to Jedi mind trick him into commiting or something?

From what I understand he’ll commit to Kentucky publicly before the date he put out.

So it's over

[ChooChooCat]

Kentucky got another crystal ball from a Duke writer.

Likely a bandwagoner

When I said Kentucky is telling every body they’re landing him I wasn’t speaking in hyperbole.

So they're trying to Jedi mind trick him into commiting or something?

From what I understand he’ll commit to Kentucky publicly before the date he put out.

So it's over

Unless Kentucky is full of shit or grossly exaggerating, yes.

[RondaeShimmy]

Kentucky got another crystal ball from a Duke writer.

Likely a bandwagoner

When I said Kentucky is telling every body they’re landing him I wasn’t speaking in hyperbole.

So they're trying to Jedi mind trick him into commiting or something?

From what I understand he’ll commit to Kentucky publicly before the date he put out.

If he does..

These recruits who suddenly get called late and seriously get recruited by Kentucky or Duke, almost always find it hard to say no.

The allure is too much.

[Beachcat97]

Not gonna win too many head to head recruiting battles with Calipari.

[BeardownZonaZona]

Another crystal ball to Kentucky. Ya we done here

[RondaeShimmy]

Another crystal ball to Kentucky. Ya we done here

[Spaceman Spiff]

Not gonna win too many head to head recruiting battles with Calipari.

Cal's machine is legit. Miller beat him a few times, most notably Aaron Gordon, but you're running with the big dogs there.

[Longhorned]

Now that we're saying it's over, I'm not sure HOW we were ever in the game. If there were a connection between the recruit and either A) Arizona (living and playing in Phoenix doesn't count), or B) a member of the coaching staff, it would make sense. If Miller were still the coach, it would make more sense, but even that was a hard sell when the option is Calipari and Kentucky.

[ChooChooCat]

Now that we're saying it's over, I'm not sure HOW we were ever in the game. If there were a connection between the recruit and either A) Arizona (living and playing in Phoenix doesn't count), or B) a member of the coaching staff, it would make sense. If Miller were still the coach, it would make more sense, but even that was a hard sell when the option is Calipari and Kentucky.

We had zero chance with him with Miller as the head coach. Tommy had him until Hickman decided he didn’t want to play for Calipari any more.

[Longhorned]

I guess the part I still can't understand is how there's no plan B. Nor even a plan 9 from outer space.

[BeardownZonaZona]

It's going to be alright guys. I fully expect a commitment from Adama Bal this weekend. We will start Plan B and could very well back into a damn good point guard

[Spaceman Spiff]

Now that we're saying it's over, I'm not sure HOW we were ever in the game. If there were a connection between the recruit and either A) Arizona (living and playing in Phoenix doesn't count), or B) a member of the coaching staff, it would make sense. If Miller were still the coach, it would make more sense, but even that was a hard sell when the option is Calipari and Kentucky.

Some of it was just Tyty decommitting from Creighton when his star rose. It opened him to a different level of schools and we tried to jump on it.

Tyty always did seem like the kind of recruit who was making a business decision, and we apparently weren't the best option there.

[BeardownZonaZona]

Now that we're saying it's over, I'm not sure HOW we were ever in the game. If there were a connection between the recruit and either A) Arizona (living and playing in Phoenix doesn't count), or B) a member of the coaching staff, it would make sense. If Miller were still the coach, it would make more sense, but even that was a hard sell when the option is Calipari and Kentucky.

Some of it was just Tyty decommitting from Creighton when his star rose. It opened him to a different level of schools and we tried to jump on it.

Tyty always did seem like the kind of recruit who was making a business decision, and we apparently weren't the best option there.

A lot of this recruitment had to do with Tee Washington as well. His father is very involved and probably had a huge say in the final decision.

[84Cat]

I'm always disappointed when we can't stop a West coast player from going east.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I guess the part I still can't understand is how there's no plan B. Nor even a plan 9 from outer space.

One day you're a witch, the next, people want to burn you at the stake. It's how CBB coaching works.

[gronk4heisman]

It's going to be alright guys. I fully expect a commitment from Adama Bal this weekend. We will start Plan B and could very well back into a damn good point guard

Adama Bal I would not expect to play more than 5 MPG this year unless he has improved a lot. At this point we appear to be hoping for luck, which as a Wildcat fan has been nonexistent the last decade.

[ChooChooCat]

It's going to be alright guys. I fully expect a commitment from Adama Bal this weekend. We will start Plan B and could very well back into a damn good point guard

Adama Bal I would not expect to play more than 5 MPG this year unless he has improved a lot. At this point we appear to be hoping for luck, which as a Wildcat fan has been nonexistent the last decade.

Bal is far from the only we’re going to land. We will have a quality plan B here for PG as well.