Sean Miller

[gronk4heisman]

Arizona basketball shouldn’t be hiring coaches who are just getting their feet wet and yet here we are.

I agree with you, but Arizona is in a weird period right now. The NCAA crap and poor leadership taints it all. In normal circumstances Arizona could just ask just about any coach and they'd come right over. Hopefully we'll get back there in due time.

Us getting any coach we want in the future will not be happening unless football starts carrying its weight and the PAC 12 finds some better leadership

[azgreg]

I have the same record as Coaches Lloyd and Fisch combined

I look forward to your final fours.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Arizona basketball shouldn’t be hiring coaches who are just getting their feet wet and yet here we are.

I agree with you, but Arizona is in a weird period right now. The NCAA crap and poor leadership taints it all. In normal circumstances Arizona could just ask just about any coach and they'd come right over. Hopefully we'll get back there in due time.

Well, yeah, but that's the glaring argument for not making a move at all. You're stuck with a duo of buffoons trying to act with substantially less leverage than they should have and hoping it turns out ok.

[Alieberman]

I have the same record as Coaches Lloyd and Fisch combined

I look forward to your final fours.

I'm retiring while on top

[azgreg]

I have the same record as Coaches Lloyd and Fisch combined

I look forward to your final fours.

I'm retiring while on top

You'll always be tops in my book.

[ekat]

I didn’t know where else to put this, and I’m probably still going to mess this up, but, I am always going to want good things to happen to Ray Smith.

[tweet] https://mobile.twitter.com/raysmith2297 ... 7833675776[/tweet]

[IndianaZonaFan]

This goes back a few years when we were saying we needed to have a “motherfucker” on the team, ala Kevin Parrom, Mark Lyons, and TJ. We needed to look no further than the man in charge. He will always be my #1 UofA motherfucker. I will miss his passion and fire.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I didn’t know where else to put this, and I’m probably still going to mess this up, but, I am always going to want good things to happen to Ray Smith.

[tweet] https://mobile.twitter.com/raysmith2297 ... 7833675776[/tweet]

When people criticize Miller's performances from 15-16 on, I always can't help but wonder what would have been different if Ray and Brandon Williams would have been healthy.

Ray was the highest ceiling recruit we had that year. Brandon...him as a soph next to Nico would have made the 19-20 team very significantly better.

[ekat]

I didn’t know where else to put this, and I’m probably still going to mess this up, but, I am always going to want good things to happen to Ray Smith.

[tweet] https://mobile.twitter.com/raysmith2297 ... 7833675776[/tweet]

When people criticize Miller's performances from 15-16 on, I always can't help but wonder what would have been different if Ray and Brandon Williams would have been healthy.

Ray was the highest ceiling recruit we had that year. Brandon...him as a soph next to Nico would have made the 19-20 team very significantly better.

So very true. Both Ray and Brandon would have added so much. Hopefully they’ll go on to do other great things.

[YoDeFoe]

I didn’t know where else to put this, and I’m probably still going to mess this up, but, I am always going to want good things to happen to Ray Smith.

[tweet] https://mobile.twitter.com/raysmith2297 ... 7833675776[/tweet]

When people criticize Miller's performances from 15-16 on, I always can't help but wonder what would have been different if Ray and Brandon Williams would have been healthy.

Ray was the highest ceiling recruit we had that year. Brandon...him as a soph next to Nico would have made the 19-20 team very significantly better.

It's absurd the run of bad luck that brought down Miller - beyond the bad luck of being loyal to Book (or the bad luck of Book being the last of many coaches to get caught up in an unnecessary bribery scheme).

* 2013 - "He touched the ball" tech that cost us the game against UCLA in the Pac-12 tournament and a higher seed (got the 6, should have been a 3 after winning the Pac-12 tournament)
* 2014 - The fucking foul call in the OT of the E8 (Gassner initiated contact, clearly - Nick would have sealed it at the line with 3.2s left)
* 2015 - Bash breaks his foot
* 2016 - Ray Smith out
* 2017 - Ray Smith out, again; Trier out with the fluke never-ending supplement fail; Rawle breaks his shooting hand before the Xavier loss
* 2018 - FBI news drops, team is scattered pre-season and drops three in a row in the Bahamas; Trier out late season for another failure for the same supplement; Miller / Ayton allegation drops right before the tournament
* 2019 - Should have been the greatest Arizona recruiting class of all time... decimated; BWill the lone star recruit and still misses time with his knee
* 2020 - COVID
* 2021 - Robbins

I don't follow other programs this closely - so maybe everyone has shit luck that lasts like a fucking decade - but I've got a feeling this is some shit I can take personally.

[Beachcat97]

That's an excellent overview of Miller's run of bad luck, YDF.

I suppose we have to also look at his *good* luck too, right? D-Will becoming the hottest player in the country in '11. Momo hitting that shot to beat Florida at McKale. Lauri turning out to be even better than advertised. All the stellar recruiting classes, regardless of whatever allegations of impropriety may endure.

On balance, maybe the bad outweighs the good. The ones that irk me the most are just falling short of the FF. It's crazy how close Miller was to two FFs, and maybe a NC in '15.

[YoDeFoe]

Even just healthy Ray Smith + not-suspended Allonzo Trier... that lull after the E8 runs? Never happens. Straight back to the mountaintop. Golly, what could have been.

[Longhorned]

I didn’t know where else to put this, and I’m probably still going to mess this up, but, I am always going to want good things to happen to Ray Smith.

[tweet] https://mobile.twitter.com/raysmith2297 ... 7833675776[/tweet]

When people criticize Miller's performances from 15-16 on, I always can't help but wonder what would have been different if Ray and Brandon Williams would have been healthy.

Ray was the highest ceiling recruit we had that year. Brandon...him as a soph next to Nico would have made the 19-20 team very significantly better.

It's absurd the run of bad luck that brought down Miller - beyond the bad luck of being loyal to Book (or the bad luck of Book being the last of many coaches to get caught up in an unnecessary bribery scheme).

* 2013 - "He touched the ball" tech that cost us the game against UCLA in the Pac-12 tournament and a higher seed (got the 6, should have been a 3 after winning the Pac-12 tournament)
* 2014 - The fucking foul call in the OT of the E8 (Gassner initiated contact, clearly - Nick would have sealed it at the line with 3.2s left)
* 2015 - Bash breaks his foot
* 2016 - Ray Smith out
* 2017 - Ray Smith out, again; Trier out with the fluke never-ending supplement fail; Rawle breaks his shooting hand before the Xavier loss
* 2018 - FBI news drops, team is scattered pre-season and drops three in a row in the Bahamas; Trier out late season for another failure for the same supplement; Miller / Ayton allegation drops right before the tournament
* 2019 - Should have been the greatest Arizona recruiting class of all time... decimated; BWill the lone star recruit and still misses time with his knee
* 2020 - COVID
* 2021 - Robbins

I don't follow other programs this closely - so maybe everyone has shit luck that lasts like a fucking decade - but I've got a feeling this is some shit I can take personally.

Had he been shown this list 12 years ago, the smart decision would have been to stay at Xavier. He'd probably have more than one FF and a strong reputation, and Book wouldn't have had the same level of shady opportunities.

[azpatnca]

I didn’t know where else to put this, and I’m probably still going to mess this up, but, I am always going to want good things to happen to Ray Smith.

[tweet] https://mobile.twitter.com/raysmith2297 ... 7833675776[/tweet]

When people criticize Miller's performances from 15-16 on, I always can't help but wonder what would have been different if Ray and Brandon Williams would have been healthy.

Ray was the highest ceiling recruit we had that year. Brandon...him as a soph next to Nico would have made the 19-20 team very significantly better.

It's absurd the run of bad luck that brought down Miller - beyond the bad luck of being loyal to Book (or the bad luck of Book being the last of many coaches to get caught up in an unnecessary bribery scheme).

* 2013 - "He touched the ball" tech that cost us the game against UCLA in the Pac-12 tournament and a higher seed (got the 6, should have been a 3 after winning the Pac-12 tournament)
* 2014 - The fucking foul call in the OT of the E8 (Gassner initiated contact, clearly - Nick would have sealed it at the line with 3.2s left)
* 2015 - Bash breaks his foot
* 2016 - Ray Smith out
* 2017 - Ray Smith out, again; Trier out with the fluke never-ending supplement fail; Rawle breaks his shooting hand before the Xavier loss
* 2018 - FBI news drops, team is scattered pre-season and drops three in a row in the Bahamas; Trier out late season for another failure for the same supplement; Miller / Ayton allegation drops right before the tournament
* 2019 - Should have been the greatest Arizona recruiting class of all time... decimated; BWill the lone star recruit and still misses time with his knee
* 2020 - COVID
* 2021 - Robbins

I don't follow other programs this closely - so maybe everyone has shit luck that lasts like a fucking decade - but I've got a feeling this is some shit I can take personally.

Good God.

[SabinoDrifter]

I'm very much like 97, the turning point was the first round loss against Wichita State in 2016. They went from 1st and 3rd in KenPom in 2014 and 2015 to 29 in 2016 and 2017 and fucking 83rd in 2018 (with the #1 player in the draft who was an athletic freak in the middle) in defensive efficiency. That's elite defense to very good defense to shitty defense and unfortunately, it seemed like the teams in 2016-2018 teams were a collection of players that could play well in spurts, but could never put it together for a large enough team effort to win tight games. And, there is a reason why guys like Trier and Alkins can't sniff good NBA rosters and will probably be fringe NBA players the rest of their careers. I think Book put Miller in a tough spot with some of those guys and it just was never going to work enough to win a championship.

[U.P. Zona Fan]

Here's another thing, I don't remember there being chemistry issues much before 2016. I might be remembering wrong or wasn't paying as close attention to the inner workings of the teams. We also had strong upperclassmen leaders on those teams 2016 and earlier. I'm probably simplifying it too much.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I tend to think the 16-17 team is supremely underrated here. We entered the tourney 30-4, with 3 of those losses to top ten teams. The Butler and Gonzaga losses were with a 7 man roster when Trier and PJC were hurt.

People go gaga for Gonzaga making the NC, but we lost to them by 7 in LA with 7 scholarship players. We beat 4 top 12 teams on the road/neutral site, including 3 top 5 teams.

Heck, we had Xavier basically done despite Rawle breaking his finger and gagged down the stretch, but that end is all people talk about. That's an extremely underrated team on this board.

Edit: In a way, I think it's a microcosm of people's attitudes towards Sean Miller. It became all about what we didn't do instead of fondly remembering winning 3 top 5 games, which I'm not sure any Arizona team has done since 97.

Double edit: For accuracy, we did beat 3 top 5 teams once since 1997, although two were at home as opposed to the 3 neutral/road in 16-17. It was actually in 1999-2000, which I thought was interesting bc that's not a team I expected to do that.

[Beachcat97]

Anyone know what he’s up to? Been thinking about him this week.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Anyone know what he’s up to? Been thinking about him this week.

Him being quiet makes me think he's likely looking to go the NBA route as rumored for right now. If he wanted to stat in college, there would probably be more action. The NBA, you can't do much until the season's over.

[azcat49]

He should go be an analyst for ESPIN. Maybe do game day with Bilas and Dukie

[Merkin]

Anyone know what he’s up to? Been thinking about him this week.

According to his and Sumlin's contracts, they need to mitigate damages by seeking work, and any salary they make will reduce the payout amount the UA has to pay them.

So I imagine they are looking for head coach work, since no one will offer them that and they can collect. Hey, I have been applying for work!

[YoDeFoe]

Anyone know what he’s up to? Been thinking about him this week.

Him being quiet makes me think he's likely looking to go the NBA route as rumored for right now. If he wanted to stat in college, there would probably be more action. The NBA, you can't do much until the season's over.

You'd have to think that for Miller's college coaching prospects, he's better served waiting until the specter of a potential show-cause is lifted.

[RondaeShimmy]

Has to wait until the nba season is done. Usually there isn't a ton of in-season coaching assistant movement.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Anyone know what he’s up to? Been thinking about him this week.

Him being quiet makes me think he's likely looking to go the NBA route as rumored for right now. If he wanted to stat in college, there would probably be more action. The NBA, you can't do much until the season's over.

You'd have to think that for Miller's college coaching prospects, he's better served waiting until the specter of a potential show-cause is lifted.

That's why NBA assistant seems like the smart route. He builds his resume and if he decides to move back to college, he can do it when show cause is off the table.

It can be another recruiting selling point, that he knows the NBA and has connections. It just has to wait until the NBA coaching carousel begins to spin.

[TheCat]

I don't think there is anyway he gets a show of cause. If he does he and Bill Self will both be available.

[Jefe]

Anyone know what he’s up to? Been thinking about him this week.

House isn't for sale

[Beachcat97]

Anyone know what he’s up to? Been thinking about him this week.

House isn't for sale

Maybe he's going back to school? UofA has some fantastic graduate programs. Maybe he'll reemerge as a clinical psychologist.

[YoDeFoe]

I don't think there is anyway he gets a show of cause. If he does he and Bill Self will both be available.

Almost certain that he'll get a show cause and so will Self. The show cause won't (inherently) change Self's employment at KU - recall that a show cause simply means that penalties follow a coach to their new school unless the school can "show cause" why they shouldn't, to ensure that a coach can't just bounce out of a bad situation. KU won't have to show cause - the penalties will be there for them regardless.

[TheCat]

Can you name one head coach that had an assistant involved with the FBI sting that got a show of cause penalty? Did Pitino get one for stripper gate? Are you saying that Andy Enfield might get a show of cause penalty? Sean was accused of not controlling his staff not paying players or benefitting in any way. Show of cause penalties are hard to understand. Bruce Pearl is still under a show of cause till August 24th (still can't recruit) and was hired at Auburn.

I don't think what you said about Self is true. KU will have to go in front of the NCAA every 6 months and tell them what mitgators they have put in place to prevent a reoccurrence and of course if they violate again the penalties are much more severe. Might be wrong but I think that is the rule. What you said about following a coach if he moves is accurate. Happened to Kelvin Sampson's assistant.

[wyo-cat]

I don't think there is anyway he gets a show of cause. If he does he and Bill Self will both be available.

Almost certain that he'll get a show cause and so will Self. The show cause won't (inherently) change Self's employment at KU - recall that a show cause simply means that penalties follow a coach to their new school unless the school can "show cause" why they shouldn't, to ensure that a coach can't just bounce out of a bad situation. KU won't have to show cause - the penalties will be there for them regardless.

What? He’s only on the hook for failure to control Book pocketing some money. How the hell does that get a show cause?

[YoDeFoe]

Look guys, I’m not advocating for Miller to get a show cause, I’m just saying it looks likely given the level of accusations against Arizona. Which again - I disagree with those! But coaches have certainly caught a show cause for lesser violations (Sampson and Pearl, previously referenced).

And if you’re comparing us to the other schools that somehow skated (bc they have competent admins?) - stop it. You know we’re being treated more harshly.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't think there is anyway he gets a show of cause. If he does he and Bill Self will both be available.

Almost certain that he'll get a show cause and so will Self. The show cause won't (inherently) change Self's employment at KU - recall that a show cause simply means that penalties follow a coach to their new school unless the school can "show cause" why they shouldn't, to ensure that a coach can't just bounce out of a bad situation. KU won't have to show cause - the penalties will be there for them regardless.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsspo ... reers/amp/

I'm not convinced Miller will get a show cause. This article tells the story, and over a two decade time span, only 5 coaches got it, and that came from only 2 incidents (Pearl at UT and Sampson at IU). It's not an overly regular thing.

[YoDeFoe]

I don't think there is anyway he gets a show of cause. If he does he and Bill Self will both be available.

Almost certain that he'll get a show cause and so will Self. The show cause won't (inherently) change Self's employment at KU - recall that a show cause simply means that penalties follow a coach to their new school unless the school can "show cause" why they shouldn't, to ensure that a coach can't just bounce out of a bad situation. KU won't have to show cause - the penalties will be there for them regardless.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.cbsspo ... reers/amp/

I'm not convinced Miller will get a show cause. This article tells the story, and over a two decade time span, only 5 coaches got it, and that came from only 2 incidents (Pearl at UT and Sampson at IU). It's not an overly regular thing.

Not quite right: that's a list of coaches who received a show cause and were later hired to head coaching gigs. The list of coaches who have received a show cause is longer (notables, non-exhaustive, here).

But y'all are probably right - Miller probably doesn't catch it unless the NCAA can stick the academic stuff to Miller or a failure to cooperate to Miller. Or they railroad Miller because we have a shitty admin and some too many stupid assistant coaches (like what happened to Gib Arnold at Hawaii or D2 coach George Pitts).

[ekat]

I don't think there is anyway he gets a show of cause. If he does he and Bill Self will both be available.

Almost certain that he'll get a show cause and so will Self. The show cause won't (inherently) change Self's employment at KU - recall that a show cause simply means that penalties follow a coach to their new school unless the school can "show cause" why they shouldn't, to ensure that a coach can't just bounce out of a bad situation. KU won't have to show cause - the penalties will be there for them regardless.

In the schools’ respective NOA’s, the NCAA specifically did not ask for a Show Cause against, Miller, just Book; however, they specifically requested a Show Cause against Self, because they have his personal texts, not just hearsay.

[RondaeShimmy]

“He wanted the Sean Miller era over. He wanted to move on from it. He just felt like the program had gone through so much.”

How bad did it get in Tuscon? Even Hall of Fame coach Lute Olson was tired of it. Olson has always been a gentleman, but before his death last summer couldn’t refrain from wishing the Wildcats would move on. That’s what college hoops insider Jeff Goodman told me this morning

“When I sat down with Lute Olson before he passed away. You could tell, and he had trouble talking at that point, but he even, you could see it on his face.”

Arizona part of the podcast where Goodman says this is at about 37:50

[Beachcat97]

Yeah. The reality that some don't want to acknowledge is that the dark cloud over AZ hoops was (is?) holding us back. Sean tried to bring back the sunshine, and maybe he would've if given more time, but the tensions between him and administration were the final straw, apparently.

[Postmaster]

Did Lute say that or did Goodman infer that from facial expressions?

It was interesting that the wife was at the presser.

[Postmaster]

Just read that.
No real evidence to support the title.
Generic “Lloyd = international “

[YoDeFoe]

Did Lute say that or did Goodman infer that from facial expressions?

It was interesting that the wife was at the presser.

Sounds like Goodman's interpretation - shitty to use the late legend like this.

[UAEebs86]

Sean Miller, meet the bus

At book stores soon: "Death Bed Confessions", by Jeff Goodman

[Chicat]

Jeff Goodman trying to push his way back into the top 5 worst alums.

[EastCoastCat]

What a dick.

[BeardownZonaZona]

That's a bullshit statement from Goodman. You can't say something that you inferred another person was feeling when that person has passed away. If it's not true, Lute is no longer with us to refute that claim. You should never infer the feelings of someone who has passed away. It's disrespectful.

[Chicat]

It’s quite obvious that Goodman is Robbins’ mouthpiece and that they are willing to say anything, trash anyone, and even stick words in the mouth of a dead legend to justify the decision to fire Miller.

It’s disgusting.

[PieceOfMeat]

goodman can go get himself fucked by a cactus

[HiCat]

Anyone know what he’s up to? Been thinking about him this week.

Any updates on this?

[dmjcat]

Anyone know what he’s up to? Been thinking about him this week.

Any updates on this?

Haven't seen or heard anything on the Miller front.

As I have said before, Miller is radioactive right now. There isn't a college AD in the country who would touch him with a 10 foot pole. He's going to have to go the Euro coaching/NBA analyst route before, maybe, inching his way back into a coaching gig at a small school once the heat is off and everyone has forgotten about the FBI mess.

[HiCat]

Anyone know what he’s up to? Been thinking about him this week.

Any updates on this?

Haven't seen or heard anything on the Miller front.

As I have said before, Miller is radioactive right now. There isn't a college AD in the country who would touch him with a 10 foot pole. He's going to have to go the Euro coaching/NBA analyst route before, maybe, inching his way back into a coaching gig at a small school once the heat is off and everyone has forgotten about the FBI mess.

Thanks. I still hope to see him coaching again.

[TheCat]

Anyone know what he’s up to? Been thinking about him this week.

Any updates on this?

Haven't seen or heard anything on the Miller front.

As I have said before, Miller is radioactive right now. There isn't a college AD in the country who would touch him with a 10 foot pole. He's going to have to go the Euro coaching/NBA analyst route before, maybe, inching his way back into a coaching gig at a small school once the heat is off and everyone has forgotten about the FBI mess.

Or not be charged with anything other than not keeping Book under control which is what I predict.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Anyone know what he’s up to? Been thinking about him this week.

Any updates on this?

Haven't seen or heard anything on the Miller front.

As I have said before, Miller is radioactive right now. There isn't a college AD in the country who would touch him with a 10 foot pole. He's going to have to go the Euro coaching/NBA analyst route before, maybe, inching his way back into a coaching gig at a small school once the heat is off and everyone has forgotten about the FBI mess.

If he's wanting to stay in college, he got fired too late to be a part of this year's open job carousel. We were one of the last vacancies.

At the end of the day, he isn't directly charged with anything but failure to monitor. It would be surprising to see him get a truly harsh individual penalty from that.

I'd expect he either goes to the NBA or just takes a year. He doesn't need the money and seems like a calculating enough guy to try to land something that actually will provide a good chance for success, not a dead end graveyard job.