The 2021-2022 Season Thread

[Beachcat97]

Ever since Wilner left the Arizona Daily Star to go the Bay Area it seems he goes overboard trying to prove he isn't a homer.

This guy is many things. An AZ homer isn't one of them.

[TheCat]

Potentially another big year for the Pac. Biggest difference for UCLA this year, imo, is that they're no longer under the radar. Everyone sees them coming, and opposing coaches should be better prepared. They're loaded, but it wouldn't surprise me to see them fall short of those lofty expectations.

Oregon is always in the hunt. I wonder what's up with OSU, Colorado, USC...all did well this past March.

Will be interesting to see what Tommy Boy can do in year one.

Ok count me out has a UCLA has this conference wrapped up type guy. UCLA had a phenomenal March and played great and deserves credit for a great tourney run. Final 4 is what we are all hoping for but let's just look a bit beyond that. Do you know what UCLA's overall record was? 19-12. Do you remember they had to play in the Bobby Hurley playin game and it went to overtime (granted they played Mich State which is tougher than most play in games.) Oregon has probably the best two big man recruits coming in and they have done their magic in the portal once again. We should see rather quickly if UCLA is a juggernaut that only continues to build from last season and becomes a threat for an undefeated PAC 12 season (never been done) or was the tourney a fluke compared to their regular season results and conference tourney loss. The beginning of seasons will tell me a lot.

[Beachcat97]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk ... NewsSearch

AZ not in the top 36 here.

[84Cat]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk ... NewsSearch

AZ not in the top 36 here.

So Katz considered Oregon State, Colorado and Washington State but not Arizona

[gronk4heisman]

Maybe Tommy will read these and realize the roster he is planning to put out there with only 9 scholarship players is not going to cut it. Though it may be to late now after sitting on his hands as all the transfers picked schools.

[IndianaZonaFan]

11….but ok

[Beachcat97]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk ... NewsSearch

AZ not in the top 36 here.

So Katz considered Oregon State, Colorado and Washington State but not Arizona

Well, OSU and Colorado did very well in March, so that makes sense. Not sure who each team loses.

Washington State is a head scratcher. They were 7-12 in league play last season, 14-13 overall. Lost in their first Pac tourney game.

It's clear to me that the national media isn't giving AZ any benefit of the doubt in the preseason forecasts. We'll have to earn respect with wins, which is how it should be, imo.

[Spaceman Spiff]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/ncaabk ... NewsSearch

AZ not in the top 36 here.

So Katz considered Oregon State, Colorado and Washington State but not Arizona

Well, OSU and Colorado did very well in March, so that makes sense. Not sure who each team loses.

Washington State is a head scratcher. They were 7-12 in league play last season, 14-13 overall. Lost in their first Pac tourney game.

It's clear to me that the national media isn't giving AZ any benefit of the doubt in the preseason forecasts. We'll have to earn respect with wins, which is how it should be, imo.

It seems like a lot of those rankings are tourney and recency based. Like OSU, we beat them by 30+ in Corvallis before their big run in the Pac and NCAA. UCLA too, they played great in the NCAA, but didn't look anywhere near a top 5 team otherwise.

Look, any good publicity for the Pac helps, though. Having some national interest and respect is never a given out West.

[MountainCat]

Maybe Tommy will read these and realize the roster he is planning to put out there with only 9 scholarship players is not going to cut it. Though it may be to late now after sitting on his hands as all the transfers picked schools.

I get the sense your either worried or down on this hire and season...

...I'm not. Arizona will represent well.

[Dave]

We currently have a 7 man rotation. The real question is how much can we expect from T. Tubelis, Ballo, Bal and Nowell?

[Beachcat97]

We currently have a 7 man rotation. The real question is how much can we expect from T. Tubelis, Ballo, Bal and Nowell?

Yeah. You think about injuries too. It is what it is. Lloyd was put in a spot where he had a ton of ground to make up in recruiting for 2021-22, and we won't really know just how awesome he is in this area until 2022-23 or 2023-24. If the roster isn't pretty loaded by year three, something's wrong.

[gronk4heisman]

11….but ok

I am counting players who will actually play more than walk-on mop up time, but ok.

[YoDeFoe]

11….but ok

I get his point - it's 9 dudes who you can play (Kerr, Larsson, Benn, Dalen, Shane, Kier, Azuolas, Koloko, Ballo) plus a development dude (Bal) and the other Tubelis.

Realistically most years we struggle to play more than 9 guys - I think coaches have to actively attempt to play ten guys through a season on a team that isn't suffering significant injuries. Usually they're extending the bench just trying to get guys minutes to keep them engaged.

It's 7 guys getting good minutes and everyone else is garbage time / situational. Here were Gonzaga's seven guys last season:

6'1" - Adam Cook
6'4" - Jalen Suggs
6'5" - Andrew Nembhard
6'5" - Joel Ayayi
6'7" - Corey Kispert
6'8" - Anton Watson
6'10" - Drew Timme

Here is our top 7:

6'3" - Kerr Kriisa
6'4" - Justin Kier
6'5" - Pelle Larsson
6'7" - Benn Mathurin
6'7" - Dalen Terry
6'11" - Azuolas Tubelis
7'1" - Christian Koloko

With Shane Nowell (6'5") and Omar Ballo (7'0") off the bench, and Adama Bal (6'7") just in case. It's enough to compete in a season assuming limited injuries, and it will aid in the development of all of these players to get good reps without feeling like the ups and downs of developing is going to prevent them from getting minutes. There's still competition at every position.

I like our guys. I don't know quite what we're going to get out of Terry and Koloko, but the rest (a potential starting five) I feel good about.

[Spaceman Spiff]

We currently have a 7 man rotation. The real question is how much can we expect from T. Tubelis, Ballo, Bal and Nowell?

Nowell is the only one I'd be happy about having a role. He has good upside, depends on how fast he acclimates.

Ballo may get minutes out of necessity, but I'm not really excited about it. Bal probably needs an RS year.

[Spaceman Spiff]

We currently have a 7 man rotation. The real question is how much can we expect from T. Tubelis, Ballo, Bal and Nowell?

Yeah. You think about injuries too. It is what it is. Lloyd was put in a spot where he had a ton of ground to make up in recruiting for 2021-22, and we won't really know just how awesome he is in this area until 2022-23 or 2023-24. If the roster isn't pretty loaded by year three, something's wrong.

I'm not sure I agree with this. He had Simpson and Dezonie in the fold and decided to go a different way. He didn't make an effort to retain Aiken and Jordan Brown also would have helped.

All 4 of those guys were semi-achievable to keep, perhaps even openly a situation where Lloyd told them to pursue other opportunities.

I don't levy huge blame for Tyty and Kaluma, but I don't understand the logic with Ballo/Brown and Simpson and Dezonie. I'd have kept those 3.

[gronk4heisman]

11….but ok

I get his point - it's 9 dudes who you can play (Kerr, Larsson, Benn, Dalen, Shane, Kier, Azuolas, Koloko, Ballo) plus a development dude (Bal) and the other Tubelis.

Realistically most years we struggle to play more than 9 guys - I think coaches have to actively attempt to play ten guys through a season on a team that isn't suffering significant injuries. Usually they're extending the bench just trying to get guys minutes to keep them engaged.

It's 7 guys getting good minutes and everyone else is garbage time / situational. Here were Gonzaga's seven guys last season:

6'1" - Adam Cook
6'4" - Jalen Suggs
6'5" - Andrew Nembhard
6'5" - Joel Ayayi
6'7" - Corey Kispert
6'8" - Anton Watson
6'10" - Drew Timme

Here is our top 7:

6'3" - Kerr Kriisa
6'4" - Justin Kier
6'5" - Pelle Larsson
6'7" - Benn Mathurin
6'7" - Dalen Terry
6'11" - Azuolas Tubelis
7'1" - Christian Koloko

With Shane Nowell (6'5") and Omar Ballo (7'0") off the bench, and Adama Bal (6'7") just in case. It's enough to compete in a season assuming limited injuries, and it will aid in the development of all of these players to get good reps without feeling like the ups and downs of developing is going to prevent them from getting minutes. There's still competition at every position.

I like our guys. I don't know quite what we're going to get out of Terry and Koloko, but the rest (a potential starting five) I feel good about.

I didnt realize Gonzaga only went 7 deep last year so that makes me feel a little better. I dont feel like we have the minute hoggers that Gonzaga had with studs like Timme , Suggs, Kispert and Ayayi outside of Tubelis and Mathurin, but I could see getting 22-27 minutes of solid play from Kriisa, Larsson and either Terry or Kerr.

[Beachcat97]

We currently have a 7 man rotation. The real question is how much can we expect from T. Tubelis, Ballo, Bal and Nowell?

Yeah. You think about injuries too. It is what it is. Lloyd was put in a spot where he had a ton of ground to make up in recruiting for 2021-22, and we won't really know just how awesome he is in this area until 2022-23 or 2023-24. If the roster isn't pretty loaded by year three, something's wrong.

I'm not sure I agree with this. He had Simpson and Dezonie in the fold and decided to go a different way. He didn't make an effort to retain Aiken and Jordan Brown also would have helped.

All 4 of those guys were semi-achievable to keep, perhaps even openly a situation where Lloyd told them to pursue other opportunities.

I don't levy huge blame for Tyty and Kaluma, but I don't understand the logic with Ballo/Brown and Simpson and Dezonie. I'd have kept those 3.

So you're saying Lloyd botched this year's roster?

[Spaceman Spiff]

We currently have a 7 man rotation. The real question is how much can we expect from T. Tubelis, Ballo, Bal and Nowell?

Yeah. You think about injuries too. It is what it is. Lloyd was put in a spot where he had a ton of ground to make up in recruiting for 2021-22, and we won't really know just how awesome he is in this area until 2022-23 or 2023-24. If the roster isn't pretty loaded by year three, something's wrong.

I'm not sure I agree with this. He had Simpson and Dezonie in the fold and decided to go a different way. He didn't make an effort to retain Aiken and Jordan Brown also would have helped.

All 4 of those guys were semi-achievable to keep, perhaps even openly a situation where Lloyd told them to pursue other opportunities.

I don't levy huge blame for Tyty and Kaluma, but I don't understand the logic with Ballo/Brown and Simpson and Dezonie. I'd have kept those 3.

So you're saying Lloyd botched this year's roster?

I'm saying it's not what I would have done. I'm not Lloyd, and I never will be. I don't see the attractiveness of Ballo and would have tried to retain Brown or get a grad transfer big.

Simpson and Dezonie, people say they didn't really fit Lloyd's system. Well, I'd rather they got a year to figure out if they did or didn't. If they didn't and wanted to transfer, at least we'd have them as a 21-22 option. Right now, if Kier or Kerr goes down, we are fudged at PG. I don't see how a test year with the two of them would have hurt us or them.

[YoDeFoe]

I didnt realize Gonzaga only went 7 deep last year so that makes me feel a little better. I dont feel like we have the minute hoggers that Gonzaga had with studs like Timme , Suggs, Kispert and Ayayi outside of Tubelis and Mathurin, but I could see getting 22-27 minutes of solid play from Kriisa, Larsson and either Terry or Kerr.

Well, we're not going to be the number one team in the nation and have those same studs, but we're still probably going to give 30min/g or so to four guys, 20-25min/g to guys 5, 6, and 7, and then 5-10 min to guys 8 and 9 as needed. That's in a game, not across the season (where min/g only counts in the games you've played in, not as an avg across every game).

[Chicat]

We currently have a 7 man rotation. The real question is how much can we expect from T. Tubelis, Ballo, Bal and Nowell?

Yeah. You think about injuries too. It is what it is. Lloyd was put in a spot where he had a ton of ground to make up in recruiting for 2021-22, and we won't really know just how awesome he is in this area until 2022-23 or 2023-24. If the roster isn't pretty loaded by year three, something's wrong.

I'm not sure I agree with this. He had Simpson and Dezonie in the fold and decided to go a different way. He didn't make an effort to retain Aiken and Jordan Brown also would have helped.

All 4 of those guys were semi-achievable to keep, perhaps even openly a situation where Lloyd told them to pursue other opportunities.

I don't levy huge blame for Tyty and Kaluma, but I don't understand the logic with Ballo/Brown and Simpson and Dezonie. I'd have kept those 3.

So you're saying Lloyd botched this year's roster?

I'm saying it's not what I would have done. I'm not Lloyd, and I never will be. I don't see the attractiveness of Ballo and would have tried to retain Brown or get a grad transfer big.

Simpson and Dezonie, people say they didn't really fit Lloyd's system. Well, I'd rather they got a year to figure out if they did or didn't. If they didn't and wanted to transfer, at least we'd have them as a 21-22 option. Right now, if Kier or Kerr goes down, we are fudged at PG. I don't see how a test year with the two of them would have hurt us or them.

If the decision to part ways with Simpson and Dezonie was Lloyd’s, we might be pointing to that in a few years as a big mistake made early on that retarded our program’s ability to quickly get back to the upper echelon.

Will we say “rookie mistake”? Or “early sign of a bad fit”?

[UAEebs86]

I don't think Simpson was Tommy Boy's choice.

[Dave]

Ballo would make a great offensive lineman.

[MountainCat]

Ballo would make a great offensive lineman.

Best evaluation on a player for this coming season yet!

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't think Simpson was Tommy Boy's choice.

Yeah, I mean I don't claim to be an insider. People posted Lloyd at least met with Simpson before he was released, so I'd assumed at a bare minimum there was a possibility KJ could be retained, especially because Akinjo bailed fairly fast.

Ultimately, he was committed to Arizona for a couple days post-Miller and I'd personally have tried to keep him on board. If that wasn't possible...well, that is why I advertise lack of insider knowledge. I mainly know what i'd have liked.

[YoDeFoe]

I don't think Simpson was Tommy Boy's choice.

Yeah, I mean I don't claim to be an insider. People posted Lloyd at least met with Simpson before he was released, so I'd assumed at a bare minimum there was a possibility KJ could be retained, especially because Akinjo bailed fairly fast.

Ultimately, he was committed to Arizona for a couple days post-Miller and I'd personally have tried to keep him on board. If that wasn't possible...well, that is why I advertise lack of insider knowledge. I mainly know what i'd have liked.

We're talking about the contents of a black box, with info from a couple of folks who heard from someone who knows someone who shook the box and listened for clues. We don't know what was in the hearts and heads of these dudes who we didn't/couldn't/wouldn't retain; we don't know what Lloyd's intentions or hopes were.

It's worth noting that none of the players went to a better program and none would have been slotted for more than reserve minutes if they came to Arizona.

[TheCat]

I will give TL the benefit of the doubt and say they came to play for Miller so when he was terminated they had other options which they pursued. It still leaves open the fact that you terminated a coach that a couple of guys would have stayed if you hadn't. We have no longer than 2 years to show real improvement and an attractive style of play. If it takes more than that you can call us Minnesota.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I don't think Simpson was Tommy Boy's choice.

Yeah, I mean I don't claim to be an insider. People posted Lloyd at least met with Simpson before he was released, so I'd assumed at a bare minimum there was a possibility KJ could be retained, especially because Akinjo bailed fairly fast.

Ultimately, he was committed to Arizona for a couple days post-Miller and I'd personally have tried to keep him on board. If that wasn't possible...well, that is why I advertise lack of insider knowledge. I mainly know what i'd have liked.

We're talking about the contents of a black box, with info from a couple of folks who heard from someone who knows someone who shook the box and listened for clues. We don't know what was in the hearts and heads of these dudes who we didn't/couldn't/wouldn't retain; we don't know what Lloyd's intentions or hopes were.

It's worth noting that none of the players went to a better program and none would have been slotted for more than reserve minutes if they came to Arizona.

I give that somewhat limited value in that Lloyd's calling card is allegedly player development. Guys in the 80's and 90's nationally are a good fit for that, and I'd liked them as part of Miller's multiyear movement.

You have them as reserves to develop as frosh and moving into major roles as sophs and beyond. I'd have personally taken that tack.

Simpson seems like he might have been able to be re-recruited, and it didn't seem like Lloyd made a push, in part because we were in the Tyty bidding war. Dezonie, everyone seems to think he was ours and Lloyd told him no.

I'm basically only recycling my view of what insiders posted here during, though. I'd have wanted one or both. We just have a thin roster right now. An extra guard never hurts, and if they'd truly not been a fit, there's the immediate transfer rule to move on.

[Beachcat97]

Anyone happen to know when tickets for home games usually go on sale to the general public? Gonna try to catch a little of Tommy's first season.

[YoDeFoe]

Dalen was working out with former Baylor Bear, National DPOY, National Champ, and son-to-be lottery pick Davion Mitchell last week - I wonder if Rem Bakamus, our new Dir. of Player Dev. who we pulled from Baylor, put the two together.

Since Baylor picked up the Lloyd style offense through coaching assistants they pulled from Gonzaga (including Bakamus), Mitchell would be a great guy for Terry to learn from. Also a great lesson in patience - Mitchell spent four years in college (including one redshirt) and is projected to go in the top ten after entering college as the 59th ranked recruit in the nation.

[Chicat]

Terry needs a few lbs.

[Beachcat97]

Terry needs a few lbs.

That was my reaction too! Dude is rail thin!

[Jefe]

Saw this in FBall

[YoDeFoe]

Terry needs a few lbs.

That was my reaction too! Dude is rail thin!

I thought this was going to be a focus for him in the off-season and yet here he is again with 190 pounds on his 6’7” frame.

I recently saw a pic of him bent-over rowing 75lb dumbbells which is pretty impressive, so I guess he’s gaining strength even if we can’t see it lol

Actually, fuck it, KD couldn’t even bench press one rep at his pro day - Dalen should just take a billion game speed three pointers and a billion PnR reads and call it a summer.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Saw this in FBall

Look, gradient is the entire reason we didn't make a Final Four in 16-17, the reason Buffalo beat us, the reason Book got caught and the reason Miller's tenure had an ugly end.

So it makes sense that now that Robbins and Heeke were able to let the poison of gradient kill Sean Miller, we can go back to the classics.

[Merkin]

Gradients for MBB was much better than those for the football program.




The tight tank tops with loose baggy shorts was my least favorite look.





Same with the unis with the duct tape on the shoulders.

Outside of the butt hugger era, but that's a given. Although I wore plenty of those, but Steve Kerr is closer to my age than Derrick Williams.

[azgreg]

Look, gradient is the entire reason we didn't make a Final Four in 16-17, the reason Buffalo beat us, the reason Book got caught and the reason Miller's tenure had an ugly end.

[Jefe]

Looks like the Illinois game is winnable now, https://www.cbssports.com/college-baske ... rs-portal/.
Beating them on the road would be so nice.

errrrr

[YoDeFoe]

Looks like the Illinois game is winnable now, https://www.cbssports.com/college-baske ... rs-portal/.
Beating them on the road would be so nice.

errrrr

The Omar Ballo game

[Spaceman Spiff]

Gradients for MBB was much better than those for the football program.




The tight tank tops with loose baggy shorts was my least favorite look.





Same with the unis with the duct tape on the shoulders.

Outside of the butt hugger era, but that's a given. Although I wore plenty of those, but Steve Kerr is closer to my age than Derrick Williams.

See, I liked the duct tape uniforms better than gradient. Other than the duct tape, those were just plain, but not strange.

The gradient has nothing to do with Arizona (gray?), is prominent, makes the red and blue uniforms partially purple and just overall winds up being distracting to the eye, IMO.

This is my power ranking:

1. 97 champs uniforms.
2. 2014-16, the modern 97 template.
3. Tie, Kerr era and 2011-13 with the sweaty back look.
4. Duct tape.
5. The random iterations of post Kerr, pre 97 uniforms where we didn't really know what we were going for, like the 93-94 Stoudamire FF team.
6. Gradient. I've bought a lot of Arizona stuff, but never gradient. It killed the fairly nice look of the last TJ team to add insult to injury.

[Chicat]

I badly wanted the ‘93 red Stoudamire jersey that was worn in Clockers, and that was before I had even applied to Arizona.

[Postmaster]

Are they allowed to practice at GCU?
I’m sure that will be added to the next NCAA investigation.

[Postmaster]

I liked the Ben Davis era unis. I think that is close to the one in that movie.

I really dislike the ones in the Dusan pic. Especially the red lettering. Seemed to really clash imo.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I badly wanted the ‘93 red Stoudamire jersey that was worn in Clockers, and that was before I had even applied to Arizona.

So, for me, the shoulder patch is a negative. The remainder of the jersey is basically the 97 jersey.

The shorts are what kill that for me. Other than my hatred of gradient, those are the worst shorts Arizona basketball has ever had.

[Chicat]

I badly wanted the ‘93 red Stoudamire jersey that was worn in Clockers, and that was before I had even applied to Arizona.

So, for me, the shoulder patch is a negative. The remainder of the jersey is basically the 97 jersey.

The shorts are what kill that for me. Other than my hatred of gradient, those are the worst shorts Arizona basketball has ever had.

Almost 30 years later, I still think this look is bad as fuck. I love everything about it.

[84Cat]

Yeah, no problems with these at all

[Longhorned]

In the 90s and 00s, I couldn't believe how bad the tight little 80s uniforms looked.

Now I can't believe how bad the oversized 90s and 00s uniforms look. Everyone, including Khalid right there, look like they're wearing cinched tunics in a Fellini movie.

[ASUHATER!]

In the 90s and 00s, I couldn't believe how bad the tight little 80s uniforms looked.

Now I can't believe how bad the oversized 90s and 00s uniforms look. Everyone, including Khalid right there, look like they're wearing cinched tunics in a Fellini movie.

Yeah as someone who wore really baggy shorts around my ass in the early 2000s...I don't know how anyone ever thought that was good.

[Chicat]

In the 90s and 00s, I couldn't believe how bad the tight little 80s uniforms looked.

Now I can't believe how bad the oversized 90s and 00s uniforms look. Everyone, including Khalid right there, look like they're wearing cinched tunics in a Fellini movie.

Look at how those dudes dressed on draft night. Pinstriped circus tents as far as the eye could see.

[Spaceman Spiff]

In the 90s and 00s, I couldn't believe how bad the tight little 80s uniforms looked.

Now I can't believe how bad the oversized 90s and 00s uniforms look. Everyone, including Khalid right there, look like they're wearing cinched tunics in a Fellini movie.

Yeah as someone who wore really baggy shorts around my ass in the early 2000s...I don't know how anyone ever thought that was good.

I feel like things might have swung too far back the other way. See below.



I feel like there's a happy medium at about knee length without too much excess parachute.

[ASUHATER!]

A 6-7 inch inseam is right to me