Let's Talk '22

[EastCoastCat]

Ok you lost me once you brought up Miller as if Tommy's current situation and the reason we fired Miller have anything remotely in common. We didn't fire Sean Miller because he wasn't meeting our expectations in the NCAA tourney. Hell he wasn't even getting there more often than not in the end. Either way It's a business. In this business you're coach is either on a max amount of years or he's not. If he's not it's because he has failed. Tommy exceeded expectations, you reward him for that. Also these coaches' egos are so damn fragile that you have to keep showing you love them as much as possible otherwise when an actual threat comes along they will take that route quickly. It's a game and it's a business. You have to know how to run it. Tommy would have options if he feels "unloved." There's a reason he gets an immediate extension and Jedd Fisch didn't.

Finally, it just blows me away that I've heard a years long narrative our loss to Xavier as a 2 seed in the 2017 Sweet 16 was disappointing and now we're trumpeting a Sweet 16 loss as a 1 seed as a successful season. I genuinely thought a good regular season with a early tourney exit and meh tourney play was disappointing, not a success.

The part I don't agree here Spiff is that you can't compare seasons in a vacuum. Where Miller sat in 2017 versus Lloyd's first season as a HC with no prior experience with a solid nucleus but still an unproven track record is to me not a fair comparison. We knew what Miller was capable of, nobody honestly knew what CTL was going to deliver in either the regular season nor the Tourney.

Now we have an intial baseline to assess imo.

[Beachcat97]

Has Ramey given a timeframe for his decision, or are we going to be hitting refresh all summer?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Ok you lost me once you brought up Miller as if Tommy's current situation and the reason we fired Miller have anything remotely in common. We didn't fire Sean Miller because he wasn't meeting our expectations in the NCAA tourney. Hell he wasn't even getting there more often than not in the end. Either way It's a business. In this business you're coach is either on a max amount of years or he's not. If he's not it's because he has failed. Tommy exceeded expectations, you reward him for that. Also these coaches' egos are so damn fragile that you have to keep showing you love them as much as possible otherwise when an actual threat comes along they will take that route quickly. It's a game and it's a business. You have to know how to run it. Tommy would have options if he feels "unloved." There's a reason he gets an immediate extension and Jedd Fisch didn't.

Finally, it just blows me away that I've heard a years long narrative our loss to Xavier as a 2 seed in the 2017 Sweet 16 was disappointing and now we're trumpeting a Sweet 16 loss as a 1 seed as a successful season. I genuinely thought a good regular season with a early tourney exit and meh tourney play was disappointing, not a success.

The part I don't agree here Spiff is that you can't compare seasons in a vacuum. Where Miller sat in 2017 versus Lloyd's first season as a HC with no prior experience with a solid nucleus but still an unproven track record is to me not a fair comparison. We knew what Miller was capable of, nobody honestly knew what CTL was going to deliver in either the regular season nor the Tourney.

Now we have an intial baseline to assess imo.

I try to be fair with Lloyd, and by no means do I dislike Lloyd or suggest he lacks very good potential as a coach.

I mean, my sticking point is that I see meeting the level of competition as one of the most basic thing, one that doesn't derive fron the experience of the coaches or the team, and that is my biggest dissatisfaction with out tourney games. Play hard, be aggressive, don't back down are all concepts in the basketball realm that are akin to "breathe" in real life. Just the most basic element of it.

I mean, look at my posts and I don't think I've ever dinged Lloyd for being somewhat outschemed by Sampson. I think he was, albeit not dramtically, but scheme and adjustments are areas I give a new HC a pass. That's an area I don't consider disappointing.

My disappointment with the tourney is related to my thought that we lost the competitiveness battle in 2 of 3 games and possibly even in the 3rd. How to manage injuries, slumps, adjustments, I do NOT have dissatisfaction with Lloyd there. To the extent he wasn't perfect, no one is, particularly a first time HC. Competitiveness would be first on my list of things where experience plays no role.

[RawleArenas]

I'm bothered by the point that about 80 percent of the teams in the tourney would give their eye teeth to have somebody like Dalen Terry on their roster. Just one of our players. Not even talking about Benn or C-Lo or some of the other budding guys on the team. At this level, talent does matter and it's perfectly acceptable to question schemes and coaching tactics when you have at minimum 5 NBA guys on your team and you lose to a squad that lost its two starters. Especially when first year coach Hubert Davis very nearly won a national championship with a far lesser team.

Lloyd did a phenomenal job of developing players on our team and getting them to understand his philosophy and systems. Going 34-3 is a serious basketball accomplishment, as well as winning NCOY from the AP. But if we're being honest, Lloyd is not a typical first coach. Lloyd did not have a typical first year roster. In high stakes games against physical teams (Tennessee, TCU and Houston) we did not punch back, instead we let them dictate the pace of the game. Arizona should not be regarded as a team that's happy with regular season success. We brought Tommy in to do what other coaches couldn't.

[RondaeShimmy]

Has Ramey given a timeframe for his decision, or are we going to be hitting refresh all summer?

The same people like to constantly derail threads so stuff gets lost in these mega threads but he's apparently going to choose Arizona soon

"On3 just released a report stating that Ramey is now expected to commit to play for the Arizona Wildcats in the coming days.

Although this doesn’t mean that the Mountaineers are completely out of the running for him, On3 stated that they are confident in the intel that they have received"

I assume this is the report.

[Beachcat97]

Thanks, Rondae. I didn't see that.

[Postmaster]

I fell the S16 is the minimum for AZ basketball.

I wonder if the team had a let down after winning conf tournament.

[Beachcat97]

I fell the S16 is the minimum for AZ basketball.

I wonder if the team had a let down after winning conf tournament.

Maybe. None of our guys had won anything at the college level until last season, and it's a lot to ask of such a young, inexperienced team to keep winning deep into March, especially coming up against an older, more experienced team like Houston. Sampson is also a very experienced tourney coach.

[UAEebs86]

Are we forgetting Kerr's injury?

[Beachcat97]

Are we forgetting Kerr's injury?

Are you implying that we beat Houston if Kerr is 100%?

[UAEebs86]

Are we forgetting Kerr's injury?

Are you implying that we beat Houston if Kerr is 100%?

Posters are saying we played crappy in every tourney game. Think that might have something to do with our starting PG having jacked up his ankle?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Has Ramey given a timeframe for his decision, or are we going to be hitting refresh all summer?

The same people like to constantly derail threads so stuff gets lost in these mega threads but he's apparently going to choose Arizona soon

"On3 just released a report stating that Ramey is now expected to commit to play for the Arizona Wildcats in the coming days.

Although this doesn’t mean that the Mountaineers are completely out of the running for him, On3 stated that they are confident in the intel that they have received"

I assume this is the report.

I hate mega threads but recognize my role as a derailer. One of my dislikes of megathreads is it discourages building derailing arguments into their own minithread.

[Beachcat97]

Are we forgetting Kerr's injury?

Are you implying that we beat Houston if Kerr is 100%?

Posters are saying we played crappy in every tourney game. Think that might have something to do with our starting PG having jacked up his ankle?

For sure. I also think Houston created challenges for us we hadn't experienced during the season. Maybe the game is closer if Kerr doesn't get injured a few weeks earlier, but I still think the Cougs had our number. It was a tough matchup, and Sampson had his team ready.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Are we forgetting Kerr's injury?

Are you implying that we beat Houston if Kerr is 100%?

Posters are saying we played crappy in every tourney game. Think that might have something to do with our starting PG having jacked up his ankle?

At least for me, I'm not saying we played crappy, particularly since there were some areas we played well. We were very efficient from inside the arc vs TCU as an example, largely because Koloko had his best offensive game in an Arizona uniform.

I'm saying we consistently lost the battles of effort and aggression, and I don't think that can be blamed on Kerr's ankle. If anything, you figure Kerr's injury would be a loud message to take the effort and aggression up to 11, not an excuse for why we lost those battles.

[YoDeFoe]

Arizona fans... waiting for recruiting news... rehashing past losses and firings

We need a commitment ASAP lol

[goslingswagg]

Are we forgetting Kerr's injury?

Are you implying that we beat Houston if Kerr is 100%?

Posters are saying we played crappy in every tourney game. Think that might have something to do with our starting PG having jacked up his ankle?

At least for me, I'm not saying we played crappy, particularly since there were some areas we played well. We were very efficient from inside the arc vs TCU as an example, largely because Koloko had his best offensive game in an Arizona uniform.

I'm saying we consistently lost the battles of effort and aggression, and I don't think that can be blamed on Kerr's ankle. If anything, you figure Kerr's injury would be a loud message to take the effort and aggression up to 11, not an excuse for why we lost those battles.

one important note on the Houston game - I think people have the idea in their heads that we got ran off the court. in reality, it was a 2 possession game with 2 mins left. the shot quality index actually had us winning that game 65% of the time, with an average predicted score of 67-62. we had tons and tons of good looks generated at the rim, particularly Azoulas, who was 0-8 with all of his looks at the rim. in no way does that loss come down to a coaching issue...that is a luck/health issue.

[goslingswagg]

Arizona fans... waiting for recruiting news... rehashing past losses and firings

We need a commitment ASAP lol

100%, just give me Ramey in the next week and I'll be satisfied for a little while

[EastCoastCat]

Can we start a separate thread entitled "Let's discuss why Arizona did not win the Championship; all years except '97"?

I think that would be perfect for our resident derailers.

[VegasCatFan]

Arizona fans... waiting for recruiting news... rehashing past losses and firings

We need a commitment ASAP lol

Only needed to wait an hour!
https://247sports.com/college/arizona/A ... 188556859/

[goslingswagg]

letsgo!!! think he will be a solid fit in TL's system, and a pretty good 8th man. land Ramey and we're in business.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Are we forgetting Kerr's injury?

Are you implying that we beat Houston if Kerr is 100%?

Posters are saying we played crappy in every tourney game. Think that might have something to do with our starting PG having jacked up his ankle?

At least for me, I'm not saying we played crappy, particularly since there were some areas we played well. We were very efficient from inside the arc vs TCU as an example, largely because Koloko had his best offensive game in an Arizona uniform.

I'm saying we consistently lost the battles of effort and aggression, and I don't think that can be blamed on Kerr's ankle. If anything, you figure Kerr's injury would be a loud message to take the effort and aggression up to 11, not an excuse for why we lost those battles.

one important note on the Houston game - I think people have the idea in their heads that we got ran off the court. in reality, it was a 2 possession game with 2 mins left. the shot quality index actually had us winning that game 65% of the time, with an average predicted score of 67-62. we had tons and tons of good looks generated at the rim, particularly Azoulas, who was 0-8 with all of his looks at the rim. in no way does that loss come down to a coaching issue...that is a luck/health issue.

That's actually something that makes it more frustrating. We were a top ten rebound % team, so we were good.

For me, eye test aside, rebounds and forced TO's were the biggest effort markers for our 21-22 team. We were -2 in rebounds and -3 in turnovers.

That's why I don't see the closeness as a good thing but more frustrating. If we had generated a handful more possessions through effort stats, we are looking at trying to beat a vulnerable Nova team for a Final Four.

It harkens back to something I said pre-tourney. People underrate the degree to which a few possessions can dictate a tournament game. Admittedly, a lot of my harping on effort and aggression vs Houston is eye test based, but why it matters so much is effort and aggression give you the few possessions that make a difference in games like Houston. Just being even in TO's and rebounds could have won that game.

[84Cat]

I hope Henderson doesn't impact Ramey's decision. I would think they play different positions

[Spaceman Spiff]

Arizona fans... waiting for recruiting news... rehashing past losses and firings

We need a commitment ASAP lol

Only needed to wait an hour!
https://247sports.com/college/arizona/A ... 188556859/

Not bad. I would peg him as a backup, especially if Ramey commits. That said, if Ramey commits, he's a solid bench piece in a 5 man perimeter rotation and 8 man total rotation.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I hope Henderson doesn't impact Ramey's decision. I would think they play different positions

It shouldn't. Henderson's a pure wing and Ramey's a combo guard. Ramey also would start over Henderson 10/10 times, and we have an open starting spot.

[Beachcat97]

I'm going to be interested to see how our season forecast is impacted by Henderson's and (hopefully) Ramey's commitments. My initial reaction is that it answers lingering questions about our depth and makes us a preseason top 25 team. Think our ceiling next year will be largely determined by the increased roles for Kriisa, Larsson and Ballo.

[RawleArenas]

Ramey makes us a much more difficult team to deal with. I really like Veesar as well. I think our success next year depends on how well Tubelis matures. I've always been high on him and think he could be the X factor we need. This team reminds me of the 2019-20 Gonzaga team with Petrusev.

Under the radar, but consistently dominant. No standout superstars, but finds a way to get the job done.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm going to be interested to see how our season forecast is impacted by Henderson's and (hopefully) Ramey's commitments. My initial reaction is that it answers lingering questions about our depth and makes us a preseason top 25 team. Think our ceiling next year will be largely determined by the increased roles for Kriisa, Larsson and Ballo.

If Ramey commits.

I'd say it gives us 7 players you can take to the bank, if Bal improves like I hope, 8 players. The upside is those 8 are all rock solid. The downside is only Tubelis and Veesaar have star, or NBA potential, absent someone really surprising me.

Veesaar is the only guy I would think has more than a 50% shot at an NBA career at this point. That usually means we could be pretty good but likely more impressive in the regular season than NCAA tourney.

[Beachcat97]

I'm going to be interested to see how our season forecast is impacted by Henderson's and (hopefully) Ramey's commitments. My initial reaction is that it answers lingering questions about our depth and makes us a preseason top 25 team. Think our ceiling next year will be largely determined by the increased roles for Kriisa, Larsson and Ballo.

If Ramey commits.

I'd say it gives us 7 players you can take to the bank, if Bal improves like I hope, 8 players. The upside is those 8 are all rock solid. The downside is only Tubelis and Veesaar have star, or NBA potential, absent someone really surprising me.

Veesaar is the only guy I would think has more than a 50% shot at an NBA career at this point. That usually means we could be pretty good but likely more impressive in the regular season than NCAA tourney.

Some may disagree, but I think Ballo has pro potential. He's got pro size, and his improvement last season was staggering. How many of us saw Koloko as an NBA player after his sophomore season?

[Frybry02]

Some may disagree, but I think Ballo has pro potential. He's got pro size, and his improvement last season was staggering. How many of us saw Koloko as an NBA player after his sophomore season?

Pass me whatever you are smokin because that is some good shit!

Ballo was a huge a surprise last year and I love the kid. He may be a pro overseas but no way he sniffs the NBA. He doesn’t fit the modern game at all.

[Dave]

I am super excited about the Henderson commitment. Seems like a really good kid who is all about the team.

[Dave]

https://thespun.com/more/top-stories/5- ... fans-react

[AzCatFan2]

The NCAA Tournament is a different beast. On our entire roster last year, we had one person with NCAA experience. Ballo. I expected us to struggle and not make a Final Four. Especially it being Tommy's first ride in the Head Coach chair. Experience matters more often than not.

As for the roster, I think Bal has NBA potential. Reminds me a lot of Michael Dickerson, who didn't play much as a freshman. Averaged just over 10 his sophomore year, before becoming our leading scorer and a defensive stopper the next two years. Bal has shown this kind of potential, and I hope he shows similar growth. We'll see.

Nice pick-up with Henderson today. I see Larrson moving into the starting role, and Henderson playing decent minutes as the back-up, in the role Larrson played last year. Score around 8 ppg and hit the open 3 is what we need.

[Chicat]

https://thespun.com/more/top-stories/5- ... fans-react

Oregon's men's basketball program received some unfortunate news on Thursday afternoon.

Five-star point guard Dior Johnson announced his decision to de-commit from the school and open his recruitment back up, per Jonathan Givony of ESPN.

[YoDeFoe]

Synergy notes on Henderson

* Excellent spot-up shooter - knocked down 44% of his no dribbles and 43% of his one dribble jumpers
* Very Good to Excellent PnR ball handler - adept at scoring with a drive or dribble jumper off the pick or setting up spot up shooters if the defense commits
* Excellent cutter - particularly proficient scoring off basket cuts
* Very Good in transition - 2.5 A:TO passing in transition and is dangerous to finish the play from the wing (should give the ball up and sprint to the right wing)

Three point shooting, pick and roll ball handling, transition buckets, basket cuts... beautiful. He's a great fit for this offense. Complimentary player who knows when to get the ball out of his hands but can finish a greenlight play.

Our depth at the wing just got so much better with just this one commitment. Give me Ramey and this is a TOUGH team.

[YoDeFoe]

(I'm still holding onto my "Pelle Larsson can make the NBA" ticket - I believe)

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm going to be interested to see how our season forecast is impacted by Henderson's and (hopefully) Ramey's commitments. My initial reaction is that it answers lingering questions about our depth and makes us a preseason top 25 team. Think our ceiling next year will be largely determined by the increased roles for Kriisa, Larsson and Ballo.

If Ramey commits.

I'd say it gives us 7 players you can take to the bank, if Bal improves like I hope, 8 players. The upside is those 8 are all rock solid. The downside is only Tubelis and Veesaar have star, or NBA potential, absent someone really surprising me.

Veesaar is the only guy I would think has more than a 50% shot at an NBA career at this point. That usually means we could be pretty good but likely more impressive in the regular season than NCAA tourney.

Some may disagree, but I think Ballo has pro potential. He's got pro size, and his improvement last season was staggering. How many of us saw Koloko as an NBA player after his sophomore season?

Ballo's an NBA player in 1997.

Koloko had a ceiling Ballo doesn't because of his athleticism. It gives him elite shotblocking and defensive potential Ballo just doesn't have. Ballo is a postup and pound center. Ballo would be more valuable than Koloko in 97, but pounder C's basically don't exist these days.

I was joking with someone the other day just since 2015, Jahlil Okafor goes from the #1 pick to mid 2nd round if he comes out this year. Okafor is in Ballo's mold and he's no longer in the league before he turns 27.

[azgreg]

(I'm still holding onto my "Pelle Larsson can make the NBA" ticket - I believe)

[ChooChooCat]

Has Ramey given a timeframe for his decision, or are we going to be hitting refresh all summer?

Soon.

[ChooChooCat]

(I'm still holding onto my "Pelle Larsson can make the NBA" ticket - I believe)

Hop aboard the Pelle Larsson 1st team all PAC 12 train or gtfo.

[SunnyAZ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJv1NKPowdQ

campbell v duke full gm

watching it rn and first thing that sticks out is he is big and a really good cutter

[Spaceman Spiff]

(I'm still holding onto my "Pelle Larsson can make the NBA" ticket - I believe)

He needs to get that 3 and D on point. Then watch Bogdanovic film until he sees his future.

[azgreg]

Will Henderson be a capable replacement for Terry?

[Beachcat97]

Will Henderson be a capable replacement for Terry?

It's a downgrade. I think that's undeniable. But Henderson will have an opportunity to get minutes off the bench if he proves he can defend and make plays. In the small bit of video I've seen of him, he looks like he's got good size and speed, so that's positive.

[SunnyAZ]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJv1NKPowdQ

campbell v duke full gm

watching it rn and first thing that sticks out is he is big and a really good cutter

this dude is awesome. was bullying duke's guards. best perimeter scorer on the team unless pelle takes a jump.

[SunnyAZ]

this dude is awesome. was bullying duke's guards. best perimeter scorer on the team unless pelle takes a jump.

wendell moore is a projected 1st rd pick, 6'6'', 220, 7'1'' wingspan, made the acc all defense team and dude is frustrated that cedric keeps taking it to him in the paint. this dude is good

[RondaeShimmy]

Will Henderson be a capable replacement for Terry?

It's a downgrade. I think that's undeniable. But Henderson will have an opportunity to get minutes off the bench if he proves he can defend and make plays. In the small bit of video I've seen of him, he looks like he's got good size and speed, so that's positive.

I think 3pt shooting and cutting/slashing he'll be better than Terry. I think he'll also be able to create his own shot far better

Defense and ball handling and playmaking will be a downgrade obviously.

[Postmaster]

Of returning players, maybe Bal and Larrson.
I don’t see anyone else making NBA.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Will Henderson be a capable replacement for Terry?

I'd put much more stock in Kerr, Ramey and Larsson. Henderson is a guy I'd think of like Mark Tollefsen in terms of role.

[SunnyAZ]

Will Henderson be a capable replacement for Terry?

I'm gonna be honest. I think at worst he will be the 2nd best perimeter player on the team next year. Even if Ramey commits. Even Mathurin couldn't have done what Cedric did to Moore last year.

Obviously Cedric and Dalen are way different but Cedric definitely brings 1v1 scoring the team really lacks, even with Ben last year. Only thing is he seems kinda passive. He is by far the best player on his team and he doesn't even get the ball that much, will just keep the ball moving like he is Draymond Green on the Warriors. Also love that he can really postup and you can't switch small guards onto him. would've really helped the team last year.

[CatFan1399]

Has Ramey given a timeframe for his decision, or are we going to be hitting refresh all summer?

Soon.

Any feeling about the Cats chances at landing Ramey, Choo? I’m not too familiar with On3. Should their prediction make us confident at all?