Conference Realignment

[Basketcats]

In basketball and baseball only? Why, because they are a Jesuit school? Non tier 1 and AAU? They have to add someone and SDSU protects that so cal market and they need a basketball power to replace UCLA

How does adding SDSU protect SoCal market? Last time I checked, USC and UCLA were not relocating out of state. They lockdown the state pretty good when it comes to recruiting. I think I read somewhere that USC, alone, pulls in (on avg) upwards of 30+% of the in-state 4 and 5 star talent. Next would be the other in-state schools (UCLA, Stanford, SDSU, etc.). They get their fair share of in-state talent. After all is said and done, I figure that 65% of the recruits from California remain in-state. Then you get the rest of the country trying to get the remainder.

Everybody seems to think that just because the SoCal teams are leaving the Pac12, recruitment of the region is going to be a lot more competitive. If anything, I think it recruiting is going to be even more in favor of USC and UCLA just because they are going to be playing a B10 heavy schedule. Kids are going to want to be part of those games. What kid is going to choose playing road game in Arizona stadium over one in Ann Arbor or Columbus on a regular basis?

[ChooChooCat]

All I will say is if the Pac-12 signs a deal with Amazon to air it's 1st or 2nd tier games it's a huge failure. We will be hurting for the decision to stay in this conference for a good while if it comes to that and we have nobody to blame, but Bobby Robbins, Dave Heeke, and the rest of the Pac-12 cronies.

[CardiacCats97]

All I will say is if the Pac-12 signs a deal with Amazon to air it's 1st or 2nd tier games it's a huge failure. We will be hurting for the decision to stay in this conference for a good while if it comes to that and we have nobody to blame, but Bobby Robbins, Dave Heeke, and the rest of the Pac-12 cronies.

That’s just the kind of decision that would be marketed as “innovation” when it is announced and then mocked forever when no one watches and it’s a total failure.

I wonder if how the shitty the Thursday night NFL games have been has Amazon second-guessing buying into another live sports experiment. I bet they are much more reluctant now to throw money at a downswing conference like the PAC and the conference would get lowballed.

[Merkin]

What kid is going to choose playing road game in Arizona stadium over one in Ann Arbor or Columbus on a regular basis?

Exactly. Same with all those complaining about adding a couple hours travel time.

Just ask the UA players how long it takes to get to The Palouse to play Wazzu. Along with the football facilities there.

[ChooChooCat]

All I will say is if the Pac-12 signs a deal with Amazon to air it's 1st or 2nd tier games it's a huge failure. We will be hurting for the decision to stay in this conference for a good while if it comes to that and we have nobody to blame, but Bobby Robbins, Dave Heeke, and the rest of the Pac-12 cronies.

That’s just the kind of decision that would be marketed as “innovation” when it is announced and then mocked forever when no one watches and it’s a total failure.

I wonder if how the shitty the Thursday night NFL games have been has Amazon second-guessing buying into another live sports experiment. I bet they are much more reluctant now to throw money at a downswing conference like the PAC and the conference would get lowballed.

Yup, going at it alone with our conference network as opposed to partnering with ESPN/FOX like every body else did was also branded as "innovatitive" and "forward thinking."

Amazon or a streamer works if there's a huge demand for your product like the NFL. The Pac-12 Network literally failed because there weren't enough people who cared enough about Pac-12 sports, whether within its own conference footprint or especially nationally, for enough cable/satellite providers to sign up to air the network. The demand has to exist or nobody will care. At least when we play on ESPN/FOX people will stumble upon our games just to see sports organically. You lose that completely if you're airing your major games on a streamer, unless that streamer is Netflix maybe. I'm telling you guys we're in for a lot of pain.

[UAEebs86]

Larry Scott said owning our own network instead of partnering with ESPN or Fox Sports was "innovative" and we know how that worked out.

[CardiacCats97]

Big XII please save us. I’ll gladly sit on metal bleachers in the visitors section in Stillwater while a tornado tears the hot dog out of my hand if it means we don’t have to go down with the Pac10 sinking ship.

[TheCatInTheHat]

Larry Scott said owning our own network instead of partnering with ESPN or Fox Sports was "innovative" and we know how that worked out.

He wasted gazillions to get next to no eyeballs. I appreciate that Wilner covers overall league issues, but it doesn't mean anybody has to respect his opinions any more than Canzano's or Hansen's. After whipping on his "Media Contracts Expert" hat, Wilner has posited that some media rights suitor would find value in the Pac-12 Network's existing equipment and personnel. I don't buy it. Yeah, they can do a game remotely with just on-site camera contractors. But there is a lack of professionalism, and their on-air "talent" is lame. (I'll give Yogi Roth a pass.) It was just a case of Larry Scott spending other people's money, and coincidentally, banking a second check as the inept executive director of a failed network. I like flipping channels on weekends and finding Arizona soccer, volleyball, baseball, softball, and the more obscure guaranteed-win basketball games. But most of the time it's garbage, and I could just as easily get a streamed feed from the UofA (which you still have to do sometimes.) Otherwise, one universally accessible and professionally produced channel with staggered big games would be fine. The current network is a failed experiment (or pyramid scheme), which just requires a broom and a dumpster.

[ChooChooCat]

After whipping on his "Media Contracts Expert" hat, Wilner has posited that some media rights suitor would find value in the Pac-12 Network's existing equipment and personnel. I don't buy it.

There is one and only one media rights suitor that would find value in the Pac-12 Network's existing equipment (not sure on personnel) and that's Amazon.

Amazon literally hired NBC to produce and basically do every thing for their TNF package. In other words Amazon doesn't have any of their own shit, because they're swinging their wallet around and paying people to do it for them. Obviously the fact that the Pac-12 already has its own equipment and staff to do this type of stuff well....yeah.

Wilner hasn't made a lot of quality points in regards for his arguments for why the Pac-12 should survive, he's absolutely right that fucking Amazon would love the fact that they wouldn't have to invest in a god damn thing to air our content.

[AzCatFan2]

The 4th window for Saturday night games still has value. UW at CAL was an entertaining game, and likely the most watched game that started during the 4th window, by far. It was on ESPN. I just don't see ESPN losing all this late Saturday content and being happy about it.

UW, Oregon, Stanford, and CAL aren't ever joining the BIG 12. If these 4, or any combo of these 4 go B1G, then the 4-corner schools go BIG 12, and along with BYU and possibly SDSU, ESPN is satisfied with BIG 12 4th window content. If the B1G stands pat in the present, and adds no more schools at the moment, hard to believe ESPN will give up all PAC First Tier content. ESPN may not want to pay more than $30 million, but if the PAC can make a 2nd and 3rd tier content with Amazon for an additional $15 million, that will be competitive with the BIG 12. And keep the PAC together for at least a few years.

One positive if we do a deal with Amazon, and allow them to take over PAC-12 Network, it might get the PAC-12 Network into sports bars across the country. The biggest negative with the PAC-12 Network not being on DirecTv is 99% of sports bars have DTV, and no PAC-12 Network. But with Amazon's Thursday Night NFL agreement, Amazon an DTV agreed to air the game on a special channel. No reason why that agreement can expand to include PAC-12 Network content.

There's no reason for us to do anything right now. And I'd prefer we stay in some sort of PAC versus going BIG 12. The reality is UW, Oregon, and Stanford all have more value than any team in the BIG 12 once OU and TX leave. If you are known by the company you keep, I'd rather stay in the PAC. But, if the B1G lands a death blow and add UW and OU, the BIG 12 would be very happy to add the 4-corner PAC schools.

[azcat49]

In basketball and baseball only? Why, because they are a Jesuit school? Non tier 1 and AAU? They have to add someone and SDSU protects that so cal market and they need a basketball power to replace UCLA

How does adding SDSU protect SoCal market? Last time I checked, USC and UCLA were not relocating out of state. They lockdown the state pretty good when it comes to recruiting. I think I read somewhere that USC, alone, pulls in (on avg) upwards of 30+% of the in-state 4 and 5 star talent. Next would be the other in-state schools (UCLA, Stanford, SDSU, etc.). They get their fair share of in-state talent. After all is said and done, I figure that 65% of the recruits from California remain in-state. Then you get the rest of the country trying to get the remainder.

Everybody seems to think that just because the SoCal teams are leaving the Pac12, recruitment of the region is going to be a lot more competitive. If anything, I think it recruiting is going to be even more in favor of USC and UCLA just because they are going to be playing a B10 heavy schedule. Kids are going to want to be part of those games. What kid is going to choose playing road game in Arizona stadium over one in Ann Arbor or Columbus on a regular basis?

I should have clarified that if protects the conference(if it survives) from the Big 12. I would think the last thing the PAC 10 would want would be having the LA schools gone and the Bug 12 in southern Cal

[ChooChooCat]

The 4th window for Saturday night games still has value. UW at CAL was an entertaining game, and likely the most watched game that started during the 4th window, by far. It was on ESPN. I just don't see ESPN losing all this late Saturday content and being happy about it.

UW, Oregon, Stanford, and CAL aren't ever joining the BIG 12. If these 4, or any combo of these 4 go B1G, then the 4-corner schools go BIG 12, and along with BYU and possibly SDSU, ESPN is satisfied with BIG 12 4th window content. If the B1G stands pat in the present, and adds no more schools at the moment, hard to believe ESPN will give up all PAC First Tier content. ESPN may not want to pay more than $30 million, but if the PAC can make a 2nd and 3rd tier content with Amazon for an additional $15 million, that will be competitive with the BIG 12. And keep the PAC together for at least a few years.

One positive if we do a deal with Amazon, and allow them to take over PAC-12 Network, it might get the PAC-12 Network into sports bars across the country. The biggest negative with the PAC-12 Network not being on DirecTv is 99% of sports bars have DTV, and no PAC-12 Network. But with Amazon's Thursday Night NFL agreement, Amazon an DTV agreed to air the game on a special channel. No reason why that agreement can expand to include PAC-12 Network content.

There's no reason for us to do anything right now. And I'd prefer we stay in some sort of PAC versus going BIG 12. The reality is UW, Oregon, and Stanford all have more value than any team in the BIG 12 once OU and TX leave. If you are known by the company you keep, I'd rather stay in the PAC. But, if the B1G lands a death blow and add UW and OU, the BIG 12 would be very happy to add the 4-corner PAC schools.

Sorry, but bars are not going to switch their TV sets that are set to satellite/cable to Prime unless it's for the NFL. There's no benefit in regards to Amazon as far as bars go. The issue is people were able to seemlessly watch all Tier 1 or Tier 2 Pac-12 games whether on a FOX network or an ESPN network and now they won't be able to. Our Tier 3 games were the issue with Pac-12 Network. Now we're going to have probably Tier 2 and Tier 3 (god forbid Tier 1) on Amazon.

Yeah there's not a lot of positives to that.

Also that 4th window is every Pac-12's fans very bane of existence. I'm sure glad it gets to live on though as are the rest of the fans. Anything to keep this conference at the bottom of the heaping pile of garbage that it already is.

If your goal was to strengthen our brand for the next go around for realignment then this TV deal absolutely works against that more than anything ever prior.

[TheCatInTheHat]

Other than just bottom-line cash, from the aspect of exposure, Amazon would be close to worst-case news. That's right up there with Larry Scott proclaiming that the Pac-12 was going to be the network of the Pacific Rim and all of Asia. He probably had some "fact-finding" luxury vacations in mind. That was about 10 years ago, and I'm still waiting for one penny of benefit from his forward-thinking bold approach. I've been to sports bars in Texas where they've never heard of FS1 and a bunch of channels we're all too familiar with because we've been relegated. Sure, if the Cowboys frequently had games shoved off onto a streamer, they'd figure it out. But not for the Pac-12.

[AzCatFan2]

The 4th window for Saturday night games still has value. UW at CAL was an entertaining game, and likely the most watched game that started during the 4th window, by far. It was on ESPN. I just don't see ESPN losing all this late Saturday content and being happy about it.

UW, Oregon, Stanford, and CAL aren't ever joining the BIG 12. If these 4, or any combo of these 4 go B1G, then the 4-corner schools go BIG 12, and along with BYU and possibly SDSU, ESPN is satisfied with BIG 12 4th window content. If the B1G stands pat in the present, and adds no more schools at the moment, hard to believe ESPN will give up all PAC First Tier content. ESPN may not want to pay more than $30 million, but if the PAC can make a 2nd and 3rd tier content with Amazon for an additional $15 million, that will be competitive with the BIG 12. And keep the PAC together for at least a few years.

One positive if we do a deal with Amazon, and allow them to take over PAC-12 Network, it might get the PAC-12 Network into sports bars across the country. The biggest negative with the PAC-12 Network not being on DirecTv is 99% of sports bars have DTV, and no PAC-12 Network. But with Amazon's Thursday Night NFL agreement, Amazon an DTV agreed to air the game on a special channel. No reason why that agreement can expand to include PAC-12 Network content.

There's no reason for us to do anything right now. And I'd prefer we stay in some sort of PAC versus going BIG 12. The reality is UW, Oregon, and Stanford all have more value than any team in the BIG 12 once OU and TX leave. If you are known by the company you keep, I'd rather stay in the PAC. But, if the B1G lands a death blow and add UW and OU, the BIG 12 would be very happy to add the 4-corner PAC schools.

Sorry, but bars are not going to switch their TV sets that are set to satellite/cable to Prime unless it's for the NFL. There's no benefit in regards to Amazon as far as bars go. The issue is people were able to seemlessly watch all Tier 1 or Tier 2 Pac-12 games whether on a FOX network or an ESPN network and now they won't be able to. Our Tier 3 games were the issue with Pac-12 Network. Now we're going to have probably Tier 2 and Tier 3 (god forbid Tier 1) on Amazon.

Yeah there's not a lot of positives to that.

Also that 4th window is every Pac-12's fans very bane of existence. I'm sure glad it gets to live on though as are the rest of the fans. Anything to keep this conference at the bottom of the heaping pile of garbage that it already is.

If your goal was to strengthen our brand for the next go around for realignment then this TV deal absolutely works against that more than anything ever prior.

I agree I can't see sports bars and restaurants switching from DTV, but they are still going to want to be able to show every NFL game. DTV struck a deal with Amazon that DTV Business Customers (mostly sports bars and restaurants) to be able to broadcast Thursday Night games. You can't watch Thursday night games at home with DTV, but every sports bar in the country with DTV, which again, is likely 99% of sports bars, show Thursday Night NFL games.

I would imagine DTV's Business Department is working on an agreements with Apple and Amazon, who are the frontrunners to win Sunday Ticket in 2023, so that sports bars and restaurants will continue to be able to broadcast all games on Sunday. The PAC-12 Network could be added sports values for DTV Business Customers for these same channels. Say Amazon wins Sunday Ticket, and signs a Tier 2 and 3 agreement for the PAC-12. To stream NFL games or PAC-12 Network games, you'll need to be a Prime customer. But a sports bar will still be able to show these games through their DTV contract.

I also agree that a Tier 1 rights agreement with a streaming service would be a joke. And while the 4th window is the bane of PAC fan's existence, the fact we're all located in the Mountain or Pacific time zones will not change regardless of what conference we're in. And the 4th window is what ESPN and Fox see the most value when it comes to west coast schools. Would it really change much if our 7:30 pm home game, local kickoff is a PAC game against WSU or a BIG12 game against Baylor?

Maybe Klivakoff is waiting to see who wins Sunday Ticket before we announce who the PAC will go with for its next contract? Neither Amazon nor Apple have a lot of sports production experience. The PAC-12 does. There's synergistic value if the PAC signs Tier 2 and 3 rights with whomever streaming service wins Sunday Ticket, and again, a possibility this gets PAC-12 Network games on DTV Business customer's televisions, which are sports bars and restaurants.

[CardiacCats97]

One positive if we do a deal with Amazon, and allow them to take over PAC-12 Network, it might get the PAC-12 Network into sports bars across the country. The biggest negative with the PAC-12 Network not being on DirecTv is 99% of sports bars have DTV, and no PAC-12 Network. But with Amazon's Thursday Night NFL agreement, Amazon an DTV agreed to air the game on a special channel. No reason why that agreement can expand to include PAC-12 Network content.

I can think of a few reasons, the first being that there’s very little demand for PAC-10 football. It’s not like people are cancelling DTV left and right because they can’t see Cal vs ASU at 11pm. The biggest Cat fan I know still has DTV even though it means he misses most of the games. Why is DTV going to pay good money to air a product that won’t get them more subscribers or keep the ones they have currently?

[Basketcats]

The 4th window for Saturday night games still has value. UW at CAL was an entertaining game, and likely the most watched game that started during the 4th window, by far. It was on ESPN. I just don't see ESPN losing all this late Saturday content and being happy about it.

UW, Oregon, Stanford, and CAL aren't ever joining the BIG 12. If these 4, or any combo of these 4 go B1G, then the 4-corner schools go BIG 12, and along with BYU and possibly SDSU, ESPN is satisfied with BIG 12 4th window content. If the B1G stands pat in the present, and adds no more schools at the moment, hard to believe ESPN will give up all PAC First Tier content. ESPN may not want to pay more than $30 million, but if the PAC can make a 2nd and 3rd tier content with Amazon for an additional $15 million, that will be competitive with the BIG 12. And keep the PAC together for at least a few years.

One positive if we do a deal with Amazon, and allow them to take over PAC-12 Network, it might get the PAC-12 Network into sports bars across the country. The biggest negative with the PAC-12 Network not being on DirecTv is 99% of sports bars have DTV, and no PAC-12 Network. But with Amazon's Thursday Night NFL agreement, Amazon an DTV agreed to air the game on a special channel. No reason why that agreement can expand to include PAC-12 Network content.

There's no reason for us to do anything right now. And I'd prefer we stay in some sort of PAC versus going BIG 12. The reality is UW, Oregon, and Stanford all have more value than any team in the BIG 12 once OU and TX leave. If you are known by the company you keep, I'd rather stay in the PAC. But, if the B1G lands a death blow and add UW and OU, the BIG 12 would be very happy to add the 4-corner PAC schools.

This pacifistic viewpoint is exactly why the PAC12 is a doomed conference. It doesn't matter if you accept new members or not. Not taking control of your fate and not allowing members to choose where they want to go and when they want to do it is just moronic. Waiting for someone to come rescue the conference with a magical deal is just not going to happen. It is like trusting an arsonist (broadcast rights suitor) with matches and a can of gas. Something (teams of the PAC10/12) is gonna get burned and it more than likely isn't going to be the arsonist.

[AzCatFan2]

Not taking control of our fate? What is the thing of most value PAC schools have right now with USC and UCLA leaving? The answer is the 4th window game. We don't have to like it, and like others here, I loathe the late local starts. 7 PM should be the latest kickoff, but the 4th window is our biggest bargaining chip. And the reality is, whether we play WSU during this 4th window or Baylor, it makes little to no difference to the broadcast partner.

It would also be nice if the B1G decided USC and UCLA need closer travel partners, and invites all current PAC-12 AAU schools to tag along. We'd be leaving ASu in the dust, and would likely have a battle with ABOR, but who would tell the B1G no? Not us. But that's not happening.

Our options right now are stay with the PAC or jump to the BIG 12 with the other 3, 4-corner PAC schools. Considering the other 3 corner schools don't want anything to do with the BIG 12, jumping alone would be a huge mistake. And again, Oregon, UW, and Stanford all have greater value than any BIG 12 team once TX and OU leave. More reason to stay in the PAC, assuming the PAC survives.

If the PAC can sign Tier 1 rights with ESPN and Tier 2/3 rights with a streaming service that can get PAC-12 Network games on DTV Business, total package $45 million or more per school, that's the best we can do this round. Especially if the B1G and SEC hold and don't make any moves until the next round of negotiations.

[PHXCATS]

The Pac is too stubborn to be creative. Hence why we need to get out before it falls.

What do you have to base this on?

I think a lot of the PAC-12 hate comes from Scheer and Luke and not realities

[PHXCATS]

I have not been to a sportsbar for NFL football in a long time but I thought Amazon was working something out with sportsbars. I would imagine they would do the same for college football

[EastCoastCat]

They should mimic red zone for the power 5 conferences. That way I can spend 12 hours on Saturday and 7 hours on Sunday watching football.

[AzCatFan2]

I have not been to a sportsbar for NFL football in a long time but I thought Amazon was working something out with sportsbars. I would imagine they would do the same for college football

Every cable and satellite company has two divisions, Home and Business. With Amazon having exclusive rights to Thursday Night football, and 99% of sports bars with DTV subscriptions, DTV and Amazon worked out a deal where DTV Business subscribers could show NFL Thursday Nights. Here's the agreement (https://www.cnbc.com/2022/08/23/amazon- ... %20seasons.)

The NFL Sunday Ticket will be on a streaming service come 2023. Apple is the frontrunner, with Amazon a close second according to most insider articles I've read. Whoever wins will likely strike a similar deal with DTV Business so that sports bars can continue to carry Sunday Ticket. Sunday Ticket is reasons 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 just about every sports bar in the US is a DTV subscriber. It's that important. And either every sports bar will become an Amazon subscriber in the late summer of 2023, or DTV Business will still be able to carry Sunday Ticket. The latter seems a lot more plausible.

[AZCatGirl]

The Pac is too stubborn to be creative. Hence why we need to get out before it falls.

What do you have to base this on?

I think a lot of the PAC-12 hate comes from Scheer and Luke and not realities

The reality is that Gonzaga and SDSU, the only two semi decent choices, will never be allowed to join, and that our games are about to be stuck on Amazon hell where even LESS people will see them than now.

If that's not enough to make you want to jump from this sinking ship, I don't know what will.

[GlobalCat]

The Pac is too stubborn to be creative. Hence why we need to get out before it falls.

What do you have to base this on?

I think a lot of the PAC-12 hate comes from Scheer and Luke and not realities

The reality is that Gonzaga and SDSU, the only two semi decent choices, will never be allowed to join, and that our games are about to be stuck on Amazon hell where even LESS people will see them than now.

If that's not enough to make you want to jump from this sinking ship, I don't know what will.

If pac10 games are on Amazon, that’s a massive win.

[CardiacCats97]

The Pac is too stubborn to be creative. Hence why we need to get out before it falls.

What do you have to base this on?

I think a lot of the PAC-12 hate comes from Scheer and Luke and not realities

The reality is that Gonzaga and SDSU, the only two semi decent choices, will never be allowed to join, and that our games are about to be stuck on Amazon hell where even LESS people will see them than now.

If that's not enough to make you want to jump from this sinking ship, I don't know what will.

If pac10 games are on Amazon, that’s a massive win.

A massive win for who?

[ChooChooCat]

The 4th window for Saturday night games still has value. UW at CAL was an entertaining game, and likely the most watched game that started during the 4th window, by far. It was on ESPN. I just don't see ESPN losing all this late Saturday content and being happy about it.

UW, Oregon, Stanford, and CAL aren't ever joining the BIG 12. If these 4, or any combo of these 4 go B1G, then the 4-corner schools go BIG 12, and along with BYU and possibly SDSU, ESPN is satisfied with BIG 12 4th window content. If the B1G stands pat in the present, and adds no more schools at the moment, hard to believe ESPN will give up all PAC First Tier content. ESPN may not want to pay more than $30 million, but if the PAC can make a 2nd and 3rd tier content with Amazon for an additional $15 million, that will be competitive with the BIG 12. And keep the PAC together for at least a few years.

One positive if we do a deal with Amazon, and allow them to take over PAC-12 Network, it might get the PAC-12 Network into sports bars across the country. The biggest negative with the PAC-12 Network not being on DirecTv is 99% of sports bars have DTV, and no PAC-12 Network. But with Amazon's Thursday Night NFL agreement, Amazon an DTV agreed to air the game on a special channel. No reason why that agreement can expand to include PAC-12 Network content.

There's no reason for us to do anything right now. And I'd prefer we stay in some sort of PAC versus going BIG 12. The reality is UW, Oregon, and Stanford all have more value than any team in the BIG 12 once OU and TX leave. If you are known by the company you keep, I'd rather stay in the PAC. But, if the B1G lands a death blow and add UW and OU, the BIG 12 would be very happy to add the 4-corner PAC schools.

Sorry, but bars are not going to switch their TV sets that are set to satellite/cable to Prime unless it's for the NFL. There's no benefit in regards to Amazon as far as bars go. The issue is people were able to seemlessly watch all Tier 1 or Tier 2 Pac-12 games whether on a FOX network or an ESPN network and now they won't be able to. Our Tier 3 games were the issue with Pac-12 Network. Now we're going to have probably Tier 2 and Tier 3 (god forbid Tier 1) on Amazon.

Yeah there's not a lot of positives to that.

Also that 4th window is every Pac-12's fans very bane of existence. I'm sure glad it gets to live on though as are the rest of the fans. Anything to keep this conference at the bottom of the heaping pile of garbage that it already is.

If your goal was to strengthen our brand for the next go around for realignment then this TV deal absolutely works against that more than anything ever prior.

I agree I can't see sports bars and restaurants switching from DTV, but they are still going to want to be able to show every NFL game. DTV struck a deal with Amazon that DTV Business Customers (mostly sports bars and restaurants) to be able to broadcast Thursday Night games. You can't watch Thursday night games at home with DTV, but every sports bar in the country with DTV, which again, is likely 99% of sports bars, show Thursday Night NFL games.

I would imagine DTV's Business Department is working on an agreements with Apple and Amazon, who are the frontrunners to win Sunday Ticket in 2023, so that sports bars and restaurants will continue to be able to broadcast all games on Sunday. The PAC-12 Network could be added sports values for DTV Business Customers for these same channels. Say Amazon wins Sunday Ticket, and signs a Tier 2 and 3 agreement for the PAC-12. To stream NFL games or PAC-12 Network games, you'll need to be a Prime customer. But a sports bar will still be able to show these games through their DTV contract.

I also agree that a Tier 1 rights agreement with a streaming service would be a joke. And while the 4th window is the bane of PAC fan's existence, the fact we're all located in the Mountain or Pacific time zones will not change regardless of what conference we're in. And the 4th window is what ESPN and Fox see the most value when it comes to west coast schools. Would it really change much if our 7:30 pm home game, local kickoff is a PAC game against WSU or a BIG12 game against Baylor?

Maybe Klivakoff is waiting to see who wins Sunday Ticket before we announce who the PAC will go with for its next contract? Neither Amazon nor Apple have a lot of sports production experience. The PAC-12 does. There's synergistic value if the PAC signs Tier 2 and 3 rights with whomever streaming service wins Sunday Ticket, and again, a possibility this gets PAC-12 Network games on DTV Business customer's televisions, which are sports bars and restaurants.

Sports bars are showing NFL games on Prime, but that's the NFL. People want to watch the NFL over literally anything else on TV. The Pac-12 is not the NFL. The Pac-12 is a regional deal at best. If there are other football games on major network cable, guess what the bars are going to do? They're sure as hell not going to go to Prime Video, I'll tell you that right now.

[ChooChooCat]

The Pac is too stubborn to be creative. Hence why we need to get out before it falls.

What do you have to base this on?

I think a lot of the PAC-12 hate comes from Scheer and Luke and not realities

The reality is that Gonzaga and SDSU, the only two semi decent choices, will never be allowed to join, and that our games are about to be stuck on Amazon hell where even LESS people will see them than now.

If that's not enough to make you want to jump from this sinking ship, I don't know what will.

If pac10 games are on Amazon, that’s a massive win.

A massive win for who?

The Big 12.

[ChooChooCat]

Not taking control of our fate? What is the thing of most value PAC schools have right now with USC and UCLA leaving? The answer is the 4th window game. We don't have to like it, and like others here, I loathe the late local starts. 7 PM should be the latest kickoff, but the 4th window is our biggest bargaining chip. And the reality is, whether we play WSU during this 4th window or Baylor, it makes little to no difference to the broadcast partner.

It would also be nice if the B1G decided USC and UCLA need closer travel partners, and invites all current PAC-12 AAU schools to tag along. We'd be leaving ASu in the dust, and would likely have a battle with ABOR, but who would tell the B1G no? Not us. But that's not happening.

Our options right now are stay with the PAC or jump to the BIG 12 with the other 3, 4-corner PAC schools. Considering the other 3 corner schools don't want anything to do with the BIG 12, jumping alone would be a huge mistake. And again, Oregon, UW, and Stanford all have greater value than any BIG 12 team once TX and OU leave. More reason to stay in the PAC, assuming the PAC survives.

If the PAC can sign Tier 1 rights with ESPN and Tier 2/3 rights with a streaming service that can get PAC-12 Network games on DTV Business, total package $45 million or more per school, that's the best we can do this round. Especially if the B1G and SEC hold and don't make any moves until the next round of negotiations.

The best we can do is blow up the PAC into oblivion where it belongs and you take your 4th window and shove it up your ass.

[ChooChooCat]

The Pac is too stubborn to be creative. Hence why we need to get out before it falls.

What do you have to base this on?

I think a lot of the PAC-12 hate comes from Scheer and Luke and not realities

Pffft.

As if Scheer and Michael Luke corner the Tucson market for being able to use your own two fucking eyes. The Pac-12 without the LA schools is a gigantic turd. It's such a massive turd that one of its existing partners doesn't want to bother even bidding on the conference. It's such a giant turd that if ESPN didn't need late night content it wouldn't even be involved with us. The Pac-12 has to literally beg a streamer to pay us to air some of our big games. Let's be clear that we're BEGGING Amazon at this point. I'm not even sure what Amazon thinks it'll get out of it unless it's going to pay to only show every Oregon football game or something.

Nobody cares about Washington State. Nobody cares about Oregon State. Nobody that isn't an academic cares about Stanford or Cal. Utah is relevant in football, but are literally the second most popular school in its own state. Nobody in Colorado has cared about college sports since the early 90s. Let's be honest the Arizona schools are so irrelevant nationally that the media confuses the two every other day.

The conference is Oregon football and a sometimes relevant Washington. That's it. We are not relevant and the second Oregon finally gets that invite from the B1G and it'll happen eventually, the conference is dead.

Now think about basketball season (which only accounts for 20% of these TV deals). You have Arizona and Oregon. Name any other possible conference matchup that would generate a blip on the national radar. It's impossible, you literally can't. I literally get nauseous thinking about our future conference slate.

The Pac-12 is a god damn giant turd and if it weren't for a time zone nobody would want us.

We can't leave soon enough. Hell it's going to happen eventually and if you can't see that coming then you either have your head in the sand or you're a blatant idiot.

[GlobalCat]

The Pac is too stubborn to be creative. Hence why we need to get out before it falls.

What do you have to base this on?

I think a lot of the PAC-12 hate comes from Scheer and Luke and not realities

The reality is that Gonzaga and SDSU, the only two semi decent choices, will never be allowed to join, and that our games are about to be stuck on Amazon hell where even LESS people will see them than now.

If that's not enough to make you want to jump from this sinking ship, I don't know what will.

If pac10 games are on Amazon, that’s a massive win.

A massive win for who?

Me. Cord cutters and folks that live outside of the west coast haven’t had the option to watch games for years. Streaming solves that.

[CardiacCats97]

What do you have to base this on?

I think a lot of the PAC-12 hate comes from Scheer and Luke and not realities

The reality is that Gonzaga and SDSU, the only two semi decent choices, will never be allowed to join, and that our games are about to be stuck on Amazon hell where even LESS people will see them than now.

If that's not enough to make you want to jump from this sinking ship, I don't know what will.

If pac10 games are on Amazon, that’s a massive win.

A massive win for who?

Me. Cord cutters and folks that live outside of the west coast haven’t had the option to watch games for years. Streaming solves that.

Congrats! Unfortunately it will be an L for school revenues and the league’s ability to compete with the B1G, SEC, ACC, and BigXII.

[ChooChooCat]

What do you have to base this on?

I think a lot of the PAC-12 hate comes from Scheer and Luke and not realities

The reality is that Gonzaga and SDSU, the only two semi decent choices, will never be allowed to join, and that our games are about to be stuck on Amazon hell where even LESS people will see them than now.

If that's not enough to make you want to jump from this sinking ship, I don't know what will.

If pac10 games are on Amazon, that’s a massive win.

A massive win for who?

Me. Cord cutters and folks that live outside of the west coast haven’t had the option to watch games for years. Streaming solves that.

So you don't have ESPN or FOX then is what you're telling us?

[AzCatFan2]

The 4th window has value. ESPN doesn't care two bits if it's 4th window game is Washington State at Arizona under a PAC-12 banner, or Baylor at Arizona under a BIG 12 banner. It just cares that there is a 4th window game of some value it can show in its 10:30 PM Eastern time slot that can beat out anything else on TV at that time. The 4th window sucks, but it's the one thing of value west coast schools not in Los Angeles has that the big networks are interested in.

And yes, sports bars don't care too much about the PAC-12 Network, but any live game is better than no live games. And the more games a bar can show, even late night on the east coast, the better. If the PAC-12 goes with Apple, and Apple is the Sunday Ticket winner, Apple and DTV will be in negotiations to allow DTV Business subscribers to continue to show Sunday Ticket. The PAC-12 Network is an added value afterthought, for sure. But again, it would be a positive for the PAC-12 Network, which would now get distribution on DTV Business. And at worst, no loss for sports bars.

Apple/Amazon would be interested in the PAC-12 because we have all the technology needed already, in house, to produce a Sunday Ticket type event with our PAC-12 Network assets. Not only that, we have a ton of live content that comes with it.

If Oregon and UW do get a call from the B1G, the PAC dies. And the 4-corner schools, assuming we don't get an invite from the B1G too, will soft land in the BIG12. But until Oregon and UW leave, they are the shiniest dog turds between every school currently in the BIG 12 or the PAC who isn't leaving for either the B1G or the SEC. There's a reason why none of the 4-corner PAC school have been enticed to leave for the BIG 12 yet. Their pile of turds without OU and TX is worse than the PAC pile without the LA schools.

And while things may change, it doesn't look like Oregon and UW are going to receive a B1G call during this round of game play. This means our current best option is to stay in the PAC, try and sign a Tier 1 deal with ESPN, and supplement that with a streaming service like Apple or Amazon. And use the PAC-12 Network's in house capabilities as a bargaining chip in hopes of getting a decent chunk of change from the streaming service this go-round. Again, our best short-term play. Long term? We're going to have to wait until if and when the big boy conferences (SEC and B1G) decide to move again.

[ChooChooCat]

The 4th window has value. ESPN doesn't care two bits if it's 4th window game is Washington State at Arizona under a PAC-12 banner, or Baylor at Arizona under a BIG 12 banner. It just cares that there is a 4th window game of some value it can show in its 10:30 PM Eastern time slot that can beat out anything else on TV at that time. The 4th window sucks, but it's the one thing of value west coast schools not in Los Angeles has that the big networks are interested in.

That's not enough of an excuse to stay in this conference. When you exist solely to provide the world one step above nothing then you probably shouldn't exist.

[AzCatFan2]

The 4th window has value. ESPN doesn't care two bits if it's 4th window game is Washington State at Arizona under a PAC-12 banner, or Baylor at Arizona under a BIG 12 banner. It just cares that there is a 4th window game of some value it can show in its 10:30 PM Eastern time slot that can beat out anything else on TV at that time. The 4th window sucks, but it's the one thing of value west coast schools not in Los Angeles has that the big networks are interested in.

That's not enough of an excuse to stay in this conference. When you exist solely to provide the world one step above nothing then you probably shouldn't exist.

So you think the BIG 12 pile of poo without TX and OU is better than the PAC without LA? Is there a better option for Arizona right now than stay in the PAC? And do you honestly think if the 4 corner schools went to the BIG 12, we would be able to avoid 4th window games? ESPN would love a BIG 12 that included BYU, the 4-corner PAC schools, and a school like SDSU. Plenty of 4th window games to be televised and one less conference contract to deal with.

[ChooChooCat]

The 4th window has value. ESPN doesn't care two bits if it's 4th window game is Washington State at Arizona under a PAC-12 banner, or Baylor at Arizona under a BIG 12 banner. It just cares that there is a 4th window game of some value it can show in its 10:30 PM Eastern time slot that can beat out anything else on TV at that time. The 4th window sucks, but it's the one thing of value west coast schools not in Los Angeles has that the big networks are interested in.

That's not enough of an excuse to stay in this conference. When you exist solely to provide the world one step above nothing then you probably shouldn't exist.

So you think the BIG 12 pile of poo without TX and OU is better than the PAC without LA? Is there a better option for Arizona right now than stay in the PAC? And do you honestly think if the 4 corner schools went to the BIG 12, we would be able to avoid 4th window games? ESPN would love a BIG 12 that included BYU, the 4-corner PAC schools, and a school like SDSU. Plenty of 4th window games to be televised and one less conference contract to deal with.

Ummm for the billionth time, yes. The Big 12 with a TV deal with ESPN/FOX is a better option for Arizona than the Pac12 with a TV deal with Amazon. If the 4 corners went to the Big 12 we wouldn't be able to avoid the 4th window games completely, but at least we wouldn't be relegated to only being on for the 4th window considering most of our conference mates would be in CST you ignoramous.

The PAC is going to be a fucking nightmare situation for these 10 schools. They're too stupid to know any better, because they don't value sports, have no idea how sports business operates, and just want the money. They deserve the pain they are in for. I had hope for us with Robbins, but turns out he's just another chicken shit bureaucrat in a long line of them populating this conference.

Seriously we're Arizona fans right? We love our basketball right? Imagine basketball in the Pac-10. Imagine playing late at night every damn game against the Oregon States and Cals of the world. You can go at night and sleep just fine knowing that's the future we're in for? If you can my only response is for you to screw off.

[azcat49]

The ONLY argument I can see is the easier access to the college football playoffs and to potentially capitalize on the sale of the PAC 12 network.

Say we were to get 30m a year from Amazon. They also are doing the TNF but have no broadcast network. We could package the equipment and production to them for an additional 20m a year (just hypothetical numbers as I don’t know what’s it’s worth)

Past that and their is no reason to stay and frankly I can’t see why we haven’t bolted yet for the Big12, past not having a partner and not wanting to blow up the conference

[CardiacCats97]

The equipment is a one time cost. They buy it and own it.

The production is just keeping current people employed. There’s no value there that would be returned to the schools.

[TheCatInTheHat]

I can't see anyone with any business sense going with way overpriced studio space just off the Embarcadero. Likewise, if your remote directors (a-holes by definition) live there, they're also overpriced due to excessive housing costs. Sets are plywood with shiny stuff on the front of them, so that's nothing. The rest is cameras and uplink trucks, which can all be rented. Great to be an owner instead of a renter, which would probably be prohibitive long-term. But, if I'm Amazon or whoever, the whole centralized operation would be required to move to much cheaper digs in some place like Henderson, you clean house of much of the personnel, and you don't accept just writing a check for things as-is. You'd save as much in one year as the cost of your move and keep the difference afterward. So, I wouldn't bank too much on P12N as any huge cost incentive. It might be an enabler for some novice company to take the plunge, but there's also a downside to that situation. Another factor is the desire to both cut excessive costs and improve the broadcast product and resulting branding and image.

[AzCatFan2]

The 4th window has value. ESPN doesn't care two bits if it's 4th window game is Washington State at Arizona under a PAC-12 banner, or Baylor at Arizona under a BIG 12 banner. It just cares that there is a 4th window game of some value it can show in its 10:30 PM Eastern time slot that can beat out anything else on TV at that time. The 4th window sucks, but it's the one thing of value west coast schools not in Los Angeles has that the big networks are interested in.

That's not enough of an excuse to stay in this conference. When you exist solely to provide the world one step above nothing then you probably shouldn't exist.

So you think the BIG 12 pile of poo without TX and OU is better than the PAC without LA? Is there a better option for Arizona right now than stay in the PAC? And do you honestly think if the 4 corner schools went to the BIG 12, we would be able to avoid 4th window games? ESPN would love a BIG 12 that included BYU, the 4-corner PAC schools, and a school like SDSU. Plenty of 4th window games to be televised and one less conference contract to deal with.

Ummm for the billionth time, yes. The Big 12 with a TV deal with ESPN/FOX is a better option for Arizona than the Pac12 with a TV deal with Amazon. If the 4 corners went to the Big 12 we wouldn't be able to avoid the 4th window games completely, but at least we wouldn't be relegated to only being on for the 4th window considering most of our conference mates would be in CST you ignoramous.

The PAC is going to be a fucking nightmare situation for these 10 schools. They're too stupid to know any better, because they don't value sports, have no idea how sports business operates, and just want the money. They deserve the pain they are in for. I had hope for us with Robbins, but turns out he's just another chicken shit bureaucrat in a long line of them populating this conference.

Seriously we're Arizona fans right? We love our basketball right? Imagine basketball in the Pac-10. Imagine playing late at night every damn game against the Oregon States and Cals of the world. You can go at night and sleep just fine knowing that's the future we're in for? If you can my only response is for you to screw off.

So a trip to Waco to play a game nobody cares about is better than a trip to Seattle? Bull. And we'll get stuck in the 4th window the same amount of time as we are now if the 4-corner schools go to the BIG 12. Just because we would be in a conference with more schools in the Central time zone doesn't change two facts. We're still in the Mtn. Time Zone and always on MST. And it's really bleeping hot here in September! I'm not the ignoramus here. There's a good reason why the 4-corner PAC schools told the BIG 12 thanks for the invite, but we'll wait to see what happens.

And sorry, I love Arizona Basketball, but football is king. It brings in the money. We want to stay competitive in Basketball, we need the money to do so. Gonzaga is the only mid-major that has been consistently successful in basketball without major conference money over the last 20 years. They are the exception to the rule. The SEC in basketball used to be Kentucky and a bunch of also-rans. But then the money started flowing. SEC softball was Tenn and nobody, but then the money flowed there too. All from football. So unless you want to try and imitate Gonzaga, best we align ourselves with whatever conference gives us the most money, and what's best for football.

And football wise, the BIG 12 without TX and OU is a bigger pile of poo than the PAC without LA. And basketball-wise? It's often a cycle. Oregon State made an Elite 8 recently, and CAL once had some great teams with Jason Kidd. No guarantee, on the other hand, that say Houston will stay on top once Kelvin Sampson (age 67) hangs it up, likely in the next 5 years.

[AzCatFan2]

I can't see anyone with any business sense going with way overpriced studio space just off the Embarcadero. Likewise, if your remote directors (a-holes by definition) live there, they're also overpriced due to excessive housing costs. Sets are plywood with shiny stuff on the front of them, so that's nothing. The rest is cameras and uplink trucks, which can all be rented. Great to be an owner instead of a renter, which would probably be prohibitive long-term. But, if I'm Amazon or whoever, the whole centralized operation would be required to move to much cheaper digs in some place like Henderson, you clean house of much of the personnel, and you don't accept just writing a check for things as-is. You'd save as much in one year as the cost of your move and keep the difference afterward. So, I wouldn't bank too much on P12N as any huge cost incentive. It might be an enabler for some novice company to take the plunge, but there's also a downside to that situation. Another factor is the desire to both cut excessive costs and improve the broadcast product and resulting branding and image.

Amazon's headquarters are in Seattle. No cheap. Apple is already in the Bay Area in Cupertino. It's not just the equipment, but the entire operation. You can rent the best equipment, but if you don't hire the right people, equipment is useless. Yes, it's only a short-term sale, and won't bring in money long term, but long term, college sports will likely look a lot different if and when the SEC and B1G make their next moves. Which doesn't look like it will happen this round. So the short term gain is something the PAC should take advantage of now, while we have it.

And again, it's not just PAC-12 Network, but the content that goes along with it. It's nowhere near the NFL, but the PAC-12 Network events, even without LA, still has some value. Consider it an add-on to the deal, but it's certainly not worthless.

[ChooChooCat]

So a trip to Waco to play a game nobody cares about is better than a trip to Seattle? Bull. And we'll get stuck in the 4th window the same amount of time as we are now if the 4-corner schools go to the BIG 12. Just because we would be in a conference with more schools in the Central time zone doesn't change two facts. We're still in the Mtn. Time Zone and always on MST. And it's really bleeping hot here in September! I'm not the ignoramus here. There's a good reason why the 4-corner PAC schools told the BIG 12 thanks for the invite, but we'll wait to see what happens.

And sorry, I love Arizona Basketball, but football is king. It brings in the money. We want to stay competitive in Basketball, we need the money to do so. Gonzaga is the only mid-major that has been consistently successful in basketball without major conference money over the last 20 years. They are the exception to the rule. The SEC in basketball used to be Kentucky and a bunch of also-rans. But then the money started flowing. SEC softball was Tenn and nobody, but then the money flowed there too. All from football. So unless you want to try and imitate Gonzaga, best we align ourselves with whatever conference gives us the most money, and what's best for football.

And football wise, the BIG 12 without TX and OU is a bigger pile of poo than the PAC without LA. And basketball-wise? It's often a cycle. Oregon State made an Elite 8 recently, and CAL once had some great teams with Jason Kidd. No guarantee, on the other hand, that say Houston will stay on top once Kelvin Sampson (age 67) hangs it up, likely in the next 5 years.

I've defaulted to TLDNR for every one of your posts now, so I'll just reply with "HAHAHAHAHAHA you're dumb and are the problem, go away" from now on.

[AzCatFan2]

So a trip to Waco to play a game nobody cares about is better than a trip to Seattle? Bull. And we'll get stuck in the 4th window the same amount of time as we are now if the 4-corner schools go to the BIG 12. Just because we would be in a conference with more schools in the Central time zone doesn't change two facts. We're still in the Mtn. Time Zone and always on MST. And it's really bleeping hot here in September! I'm not the ignoramus here. There's a good reason why the 4-corner PAC schools told the BIG 12 thanks for the invite, but we'll wait to see what happens.

And sorry, I love Arizona Basketball, but football is king. It brings in the money. We want to stay competitive in Basketball, we need the money to do so. Gonzaga is the only mid-major that has been consistently successful in basketball without major conference money over the last 20 years. They are the exception to the rule. The SEC in basketball used to be Kentucky and a bunch of also-rans. But then the money started flowing. SEC softball was Tenn and nobody, but then the money flowed there too. All from football. So unless you want to try and imitate Gonzaga, best we align ourselves with whatever conference gives us the most money, and what's best for football.

And football wise, the BIG 12 without TX and OU is a bigger pile of poo than the PAC without LA. And basketball-wise? It's often a cycle. Oregon State made an Elite 8 recently, and CAL once had some great teams with Jason Kidd. No guarantee, on the other hand, that say Houston will stay on top once Kelvin Sampson (age 67) hangs it up, likely in the next 5 years.

I've defaulted to TLDNR for every one of your posts now, so I'll just reply with "HAHAHAHAHAHA you're dumb and are the problem, go away" from now on.

How mature.

The only PAC fans who seem to want to move to the BIG12 are Arizona fans who care only about basketball. The other 4-corner schools wish to stay in the PAC, if possible. But I'm the dumb one? And here I thought I could have honest debate with fellow Wildcats. Maybe I am the dumb one?

[CatsbyAZ]

I've defaulted to TLDNR for every one of your posts now, so I'll just reply with "HAHAHAHAHAHA you're dumb and are the problem, go away" from now on.

How mature.

The only PAC fans who seem to want to move to the BIG12 are Arizona fans who care only about basketball. The other 4-corner schools wish to stay in the PAC, if possible. But I'm the dumb one? And here I thought I could have honest debate with fellow Wildcats. Maybe I am the dumb one?

[TheCatInTheHat]

Amazon's headquarters are in Seattle. No cheap. Apple is already in the Bay Area in Cupertino. It's not just the equipment, but the entire operation. You can rent the best equipment, but if you don't hire the right people, equipment is useless. Yes, it's only a short-term sale, and won't bring in money long term, but long term, college sports will likely look a lot different if and when the SEC and B1G make their next moves. Which doesn't look like it will happen this round. So the short term gain is something the PAC should take advantage of now, while we have it. And again, it's not just PAC-12 Network, but the content that goes along with it. It's nowhere near the NFL, but the PAC-12 Network events, even without LA, still has some value. Consider it an add-on to the deal, but it's certainly not worthless.

There's no reason or need to run a central Pac-12 network from the headquarters city of a purchasing organization. That approach is part of the current problem. As to "the right people", I don't think there's anything remotely special about anybody working for P12N today, but they're overpaid with respect to SF housing. Lots of out-of-work media people these days who'd be happy to work in LV. So, lease a building there, throw everything on trucks, move the appropriate people who are willing to move (so some continuity), and have a hiring fair for the rest. When you've got the boards, monitors, dishes, cameras, and telecom gear, it's not like a mission to Mars. I never said it was worthless, and I pretty much said it's a potential add-on selling point, just to not overestimate the value of it. Should it come to that, the approach I suggest is an opportunity to lean up, while also improving, that part of the business. If somebody wants to overpay to keep the current mess, you'd think that would be fine, but it probably means it gets made up by underpaying elsewhere.

[PHXCATS]

I think we all just need to realize there are three groups of people
1) Those that want to leave for the Big 12 today
2) Those that want all the information and figures possible before deciding what is best for Arizona and would be fine moving to the Big 12 if that is the best course of action
3) Those that want to stay in the PAC no matter what

I am for sure in group 2.

[ChooChooCat]

I think we all just need to realize there are three groups of people
1) Those that want to leave for the Big 12 today
2) Those that want all the information and figures possible before deciding what is best for Arizona and would be fine moving to the Big 12 if that is the best course of action
3) Those that want to stay in the PAC no matter what

I am for sure in group 2.

Fwiw you have all the information you needed to make your decision the second it became public that the Pac-12 had to turn to a streamer to get even or close to even with the money that the Big 12 will make on major network television. As well as looking merely at the long term stability of the two conferences. If you needed further motivation still, the god damn awful Pac-12 basketball schedule should be enough for you.

[PHXCATS]

No. I want the exact offer.

You know your shit and you are connected. But talking down to everyone who is not in your group is not necessary

[azgreg]

[AzCatFan2]

I'm in group 2 too. I honestly don't think the BIG 12 TV contract is going to be bigger or better than the PAC. When it comes right down it, the 4th window has value. Washington at CAL (10:30 PM Eastern) drew a .8 rating with 1.32 million viewers last week. (https://www.sportsmediawatch.com/colleg ... v-ratings/) The only other 4th window games that draw this well that doesn't include a current PAC team are games involving BYU. Several other 10:00 PM or later Eastern start games drew over 1 million viewers that involve PAC-12 teams not located in LA as well, including Utah at ASu, and Oregon State at Stanford.

We all hate the late starts, but it's valuable to the networks. We go BIG 12 and get stuck in a western pod with only 6 teams from MTN/PAC time zone, we'll be playing more of these 4th window games. In the PAC, with 10 plus whomever we add, it won't be as many.

[ChooChooCat]

No. I want the exact offer.

You know your shit and you are connected. But talking down to everyone who is not in your group is not necessary

I'm not talking down to you. You will know when I'm talking down to you.

You telling every body that they're just Scheer/Mike Luke followers for not wanting to stay in the Pac-12 is talking down to every body.