The 2022-2023 Season Thread

[Beachcat97]

22 years without a FF is indeed a tough pill. If you’d told me in ‘01, “enjoy this because it ain’t happening again for a very, very long time,” I’d have told you to piss off.

I don’t really care about losing one game to ASU. It’s more *how* we lost and that it’s happening so late in the season. Teams can rarely “throw the switch” and become something else.

[TheCat]

Arizona has flaws but so does every other team. I don't think it is throwing a switch but learning what works and what doesn't. I think that they realize that defense is required on every possession but lets not over rotate on a 60 foot shot.

My biggest concern right now is what has happened to Pelle free throw shooting in the last 3 games. This is one automatic that we should be able to rely on.

This team is a joy to watch and the style of basketball is really what I had hope to see. Bear down and see you in LA.

[ChooChooCat]

It won't end well and any level headed fan knows this because it happens year after year after year. Hopium, wishful thinking, and BS metrics will only get you so far. Historically Arizona is a horrifically bad NCAA tournament team. Countless trips with very little success to show for it. So many first and second round exits, bad luck, underachievement, and disappointment through the years. This year will be no different with another rinse and repeat failure. Last year we had 3 NBA players and couldn't get beyond the S16. And yet another sad chapter of tournament failure was written. The program is snakebit and has been for decades. 20 plus years without a Final Four confirms this despite having more talent than most programs will have in their entire history. Yesterday's embarrassing loss is just another example of this predictable pattern of late season failure. It gets old. It really does.

We should probably leave this conference to switch up how prepared we are.

[pc in NM]

Thinking over Black Saturday, 2023 last evening I have concluded that this year's team has one characteristic in common with the '97 National Championship team; they can win or lose to anyone.

The '97 team, a #4 seed, of course, is rightfully remembered for beating 3 #1 seeds in the tourney (KU - by far, the best team in the country that year; UNC - ending Dean Smith's storied career, and; UK - stopping a repeat NC)

Too many forget that the '97 team played really poorly against three mediocre teams in that tourney: (#13 South Alabama, 65-57; #12 College of Charleston, 73-69; and #10 Providence, 96-92 OT). These teams were really no better than average Pac-12 teams this year. Except for the outrageous upset of KU, one of the easiest cakewalks to a Final Four ever!!!

IMNSHO, the best ANY team can really hope for entering this year's tourney is to make it to the Final Four - the field will be that tough from top to bottom!!! Then, it'll be a crap-shoot!!!

I believe this team can do that; they could also lose in ANY round to any team that makes the tourney...

[Merkin]

Especially with an even more unathletic team than last season which was not athletic enough per Lloyd.

No rim protector (Koloko).
No shot creator (Mathurin).


A team with no defensive intensity, along with relying on 3s when you have one of the best starting bigs lineup in the nation.

Streaky 3 point shooters, and an unreliable free throw shooting team.

Getting to the S16 would be a major achievement, and would make Lloyd in the running for COY again.

[84Cat]

Thinking over Black Saturday, 2023 last evening I have concluded that this year's team has one characteristic in common with the '97 National Championship team; they can win or lose to anyone.

The '97 team, a #4 seed, of course, is rightfully remembered for beating 3 #1 seeds in the tourney (KU - by far, the best team in the country that year; UNC - ending Dean Smith's storied career, and; UK - stopping a repeat NC)

Too many forget that the '97 team played really poorly against three mediocre teams in that tourney: (#13 South Alabama, 65-57; #12 College of Charleston, 73-69; and #10 Providence, 96-92 OT). These teams were really no better than average Pac-12 teams this year. Except for the outrageous upset of KU, one of the easiest cakewalks to a Final Four ever!!!

IMNSHO, the best ANY team can really hope for entering this year's tourney is to make it to the Final Four - the field will be that tough from top to bottom!!! Then, it'll be a crap-shoot!!!

I believe this team can do that; they could also lose in ANY round to any team that makes the tourney...

Don't forget they got swept the final weekend in Pac 12 play in the bay area

[Beachcat97]

Getting to the S16 would be a major achievement, and would make Lloyd in the running for COY again.

That Sean Miller guy should get some consideration too.

[SabinoDrifter]

Especially with an even more unathletic team than last season which was not athletic enough per Lloyd.

No rim protector (Koloko).
No shot creator (Mathurin).


A team with no defensive intensity, along with relying on 3s when you have one of the best starting bigs lineup in the nation.

Streaky 3 point shooters, and an unreliable free throw shooting team.

Getting to the S16 would be a major achievement, and would make Lloyd in the running for COY again.

Despite all of what transpired yesterday, they're 6th in offensive efficiency after losing Terry, Mathurin, and Koloko.

[dirtbags]

earlier, someone mentioned CTL coaching a gonzaga-style system at arizona, and it's an interesting point which makes me wonder how (or if) he gets his players to peak at the right time. at gonz and in the WCC, few & TL could demand a lot from their players every game without much worry about players flaming out during the season. not so much in a major conference where the physicality and grind can wear on players. zu's body language, for example, and pelle's FT shooting over the past couple of weeks are slightly concerning. keep in mind that these kids have been training for and playing basketball full-time from a very young age and are prone to cases of HEB (had enough of basketball).

anyway, fwiw i remember miller would frequently bring up specific things to work on after a game, win or lose, and that the goal was always about building up, learning, and getting his teams to peak in the postseason. i'd rather hear that than "heck of a game, i tell you what" sorta stuff. i mean, i'm sure CTL and his staff know what they're doing and will figure it out, but it's hard to tell if this team is building towards their best basketball come march.

[dmjcat]

earlier, someone mentioned CTL coaching a gonzaga-style system at arizona, and it's an interesting point which makes me wonder how (or if) he gets his players to peak at the right time. at gonz and in the WCC, few & TL could demand a lot from their players every game without much worry about players flaming out during the season. not so much in a major conference where the physicality and grind can wear on players. zu's body language, for example, and pelle's FT shooting over the past couple of weeks are slightly concerning. keep in mind that these kids have been training for and playing basketball full-time from a very young age and are prone to cases of HEB (had enough of basketball).

anyway, fwiw i remember miller would frequently bring up specific things to work on after a game, win or lose, and that the goal was always about building up, learning, and getting his teams to peak in the postseason. i'd rather hear that than "heck of a game, i tell you what" sorta stuff. i mean, i'm sure CTL and his staff know what they're doing and will figure it out, but it's hard to tell if this team is building towards their best basketball come march.

Speaking of the grind I have to wonder how much the 7 man rotation is starting to affect the teams play, especially the bigs. Maybe its just me, but Ballo/Tubelis are starting to look more winded/fatigued since CTL tightened the rotation. I have to wonder if CTL should consider playing Veesar/Bal a bit more to alleviate the fatigue factor. No doubt we lose something with the 8/9 man rotation, but I think we are starting to lose something without going deeper into the bench. Certainly, IMO, we will need to go deeper in the P12 tourney in case we have to play 3 games in 3 days.

[Beachcat97]

If these things aren't fixed yet, they're not gonna be. I don't get why Veesaar hasn't gotten more minutes, unless he's just that green. Bal has been a disappointment this season.

We weren't supposed to be a contender this year, guys. That's the reality. Not after losing the three players we lost. If anything, I'd say we *overachieved* this season, and I give Tommy a lot of credit for that. We got out to a fast start in Maui and our OOC schedule, and it was impressive. But as the season's worn on, this team's weaknesses have become more apparent. This is a good team, not a great one.

[KaibabKat]

UCLA clinched the outright regular season Pac-12 title today with a win in Boulder. Cats playing for 2nd or 3rd place next weekend.

[TheCat]

UCLA is not going far in the tourney with their offense. Defense will only get you so far until you run into a hot 3 point shooting team. Not sure why Tyger's in a bit of a slump but he has a few games to breakout. Should be fun next week and the pac tourney.

[TheCat]

If these things aren't fixed yet, they're not gonna be. I don't get why Veesaar hasn't gotten more minutes, unless he's just that green. Bal has been a disappointment this season.

We weren't supposed to be a contender this year, guys. That's the reality. Not after losing the three players we lost. If anything, I'd say we *overachieved* this season, and I give Tommy a lot of credit for that. We got out to a fast start in Maui and our OOC schedule, and it was impressive. But as the season's worn on, this team's weaknesses have become more apparent. This is a good team, not a great one.

We don't overachieve when we have multiple losses at home. Hope we get a shot at the Devil's in the PAC tourney. Oregon will be desperate and when teams are desperate it makes for fun games. My hope is 4 teams in the tourney from the PAC.

[Beachcat97]

If these things aren't fixed yet, they're not gonna be. I don't get why Veesaar hasn't gotten more minutes, unless he's just that green. Bal has been a disappointment this season.

We weren't supposed to be a contender this year, guys. That's the reality. Not after losing the three players we lost. If anything, I'd say we *overachieved* this season, and I give Tommy a lot of credit for that. We got out to a fast start in Maui and our OOC schedule, and it was impressive. But as the season's worn on, this team's weaknesses have become more apparent. This is a good team, not a great one.

We don't overachieve when we have multiple losses at home. Hope we get a shot at the Devil's in the PAC tourney. Oregon will be desperate and when teams are desperate it makes for fun games. My hope is 4 teams in the tourney from the PAC.

Think that's very likely.

And I think a 2nd place finish after losing CK, BM and DT is pretty effing good. You can call it overachieving or just "achieving," but I have a lot of respect for what this team has done. It's hard to keep pace with programs whose players exhaust every inch of eligibility (hasn't Jaquez been at ucla since dial-up Internet was still a thing?).

[azgreg]

Get a split this week and reach the conference championship and we'll get a 2 seed.

[Beachcat97]

Get a split this week and reach the conference championship and we'll get a 2 seed.

This team's not getting to the Pac tourney final.

[azgreg]

Get a split this week and reach the conference championship and we'll get a 2 seed.

This team's not getting to the Pac tourney final.

$20 bet. If the Cats reach the conference championship you give to a charity of my choice if they don't I give to a charity of yours.

[Beachcat97]

Get a split this week and reach the conference championship and we'll get a 2 seed.

This team's not getting to the Pac tourney final.

$20 bet. If the Cats reach the conference championship you give to a charity of my choice if they don't I give to a charity of yours.

I appreciate your faith in the team, but I don't bet against AZ. Even when the proceeds are charitable.

I'd rather sweep the L.A. trip than win another Pac tourney.

[azgreg]

Get a split this week and reach the conference championship and we'll get a 2 seed.

This team's not getting to the Pac tourney final.

$20 bet. If the Cats reach the conference championship you give to a charity of my choice if they don't I give to a charity of yours.

I appreciate your faith in the team, but I don't bet against AZ. Even when the proceeds are charitable.

I'd rather sweep the L.A. trip than win another Pac tourney.

This team has overachieve but name me a team other than UCLA that's better than Arizona.

[Beachcat97]

Get a split this week and reach the conference championship and we'll get a 2 seed.

This team's not getting to the Pac tourney final.

$20 bet. If the Cats reach the conference championship you give to a charity of my choice if they don't I give to a charity of yours.

I appreciate your faith in the team, but I don't bet against AZ. Even when the proceeds are charitable.

I'd rather sweep the L.A. trip than win another Pac tourney.

This team has overachieve but name me a team other than UCLA that's better than Arizona.

In our league? Or in the nation? If it's the Pac, ucla hasn't beaten AZ this year. We've actually beaten them three straight. So even though they're ahead of us in the standings, I can't call them "better" until they beat us.

If it's the nation, it's a long list.

[azgreg]

This team's not getting to the Pac tourney final.

$20 bet. If the Cats reach the conference championship you give to a charity of my choice if they don't I give to a charity of yours.

I appreciate your faith in the team, but I don't bet against AZ. Even when the proceeds are charitable.

I'd rather sweep the L.A. trip than win another Pac tourney.

This team has overachieve but name me a team other than UCLA that's better than Arizona.

In our league? Or in the nation? If it's the Pac, ucla hasn't beaten AZ this year. We've actually beaten them three straight. So even though they're ahead of us in the standings, I can't call them "better" until they beat us.

If it's the nation, it's a long list.

We were talking about getting to the championship game of the PAC-12 tournament.

[Beachcat97]

$20 bet. If the Cats reach the conference championship you give to a charity of my choice if they don't I give to a charity of yours.

I appreciate your faith in the team, but I don't bet against AZ. Even when the proceeds are charitable.

I'd rather sweep the L.A. trip than win another Pac tourney.

This team has overachieve but name me a team other than UCLA that's better than Arizona.

In our league? Or in the nation? If it's the Pac, ucla hasn't beaten AZ this year. We've actually beaten them three straight. So even though they're ahead of us in the standings, I can't call them "better" until they beat us.

If it's the nation, it's a long list.

We were talking about getting to the championship game of the PAC-12 tournament.

I don't need to list the Pac teams that have beaten AZ this year. Our bad losses have finally started to outweigh our good wins.

[TheCat]

We will have a challenging time this week. I hope we play well on the road and then the tourney in Vegas is like an Arizona home game. Nationally their are teams that can beat us but we have beat 4 of the top 16 already so anything is possible. Just hope we play well and no one is injured on either team.

[Beachcat97]

I think the team that shows up in L.A. this week is the team we should expect to show up two weeks later, when the tourney begins. Technically tourney games aren't "road games," but we're likely getting shipped away from our region, which means those crowds will be rooting for the high seeds to fall. USC is playing for a tourney bid, and ucla hasn't lost at home this year. This is about as difficult a final two games as anyone could have.

Are the 2022-23 Wildcats more likely to end up among the many, many AZ teams over the past two decades who earned a high tourney seed and then unraveled in the early rounds?

Or were those early wins against Tennessee and Indy portents of greater glories in March?

Think we'll get a sense in L.A. of which way things are leaning.

[pc in NM]

I think the team that shows up in L.A. this week is the team we should expect to show up two weeks later, when the tourney begins. Technically tourney games aren't "road games," but we're likely getting shipped away from our region, which means those crowds will be rooting for the high seeds to fall. USC is playing for a tourney bid, and ucla hasn't lost at home this year. This is about as difficult a final two games as anyone could have.

Are the 2022-23 Wildcats more likely to end up among the many, many AZ teams over the past two decades who earned a high tourney seed and then unraveled in the early rounds?

Or were those early wins against Tennessee and Indy portents of greater glories in March?

Think we'll get a sense in L.A. of which way things are leaning.

Barring disaster in the next two weeks, the first weekend of the NCAA Tourney will have Arizona in Sacramento or Denver; and we'll be the favored team in a 4-team pod.

Unless we sweep the next two weeks, we're likely to be playing outside the West (Las Vegas), in KC, Louisville or New York as an 'dog to highly ranked, and more local , favorites.

[TheCat]

If Purdue is the top seed in the East let's go there. Loved the quad that UCLA was previously in. Only downside is not playing in Vegas. We won it all from the midwest (I think) and my recollection is the Pond in Anaheim was always bad for us. Just don't want to be in someone else's backyard.

[Beachcat97]

Teams that get deep in the tourney almost always have a player (or multiple players) that does something unexpected.

Even last year, Love and Manek on UNC, Remy Martin on KU, Samuels on Villanova...all these guys played way above their season averages in the tourney. I've said for years that AZ is overdue for something like this to happen. It's that March luck that most teams catch once in a long while.

I'm going to take for granted (at my peril) that Tubelis, Kriisa and Ramey are going to show up from here on out. That is, it would be surprising (and maybe calamitous) to have one of these three go ice cold. Could Larsson suddenly become the guy most expected him to be before the season? Remember, he was the guy most were projecting as our best player. Could Bal or Boswell become the country's best sixth man for two weeks? Could Veesaar start looking like the pro prospect many have him pegged as?

[BBQ wildcat]

Unfortunately, Lloyd apparently has no confidence in Bal or Veesar. So I doubt we see much of them, if at all. With this team, we never know whether we will get Jekyl or Hyde. The team could beat any other team in the country and they could lose to just about any team in the country (Div 1). Our road losses don't bother me, but the home losses to lesser teams just should never have happened.

[SabinoDrifter]

Unfortunately, Lloyd apparently has no confidence in Bal or Veesar. So I doubt we see much of them, if at all. With this team, we never know whether we will get Jekyl or Hyde. The team could beat any other team in the country and they could lose to just about any team in the country (Div 1). Our road losses don't bother me, but the home losses to lesser teams just should never have happened.

Veesaar played on Saturday in the first half with Ballo in foul trouble and he wasn't ready for what would have been an easy layup. He's not going to trust those guys if they're not ready to play when needed.

[Beachcat97]

Unfortunately, Lloyd apparently has no confidence in Bal or Veesar. So I doubt we see much of them, if at all. With this team, we never know whether we will get Jekyl or Hyde. The team could beat any other team in the country and they could lose to just about any team in the country (Div 1). Our road losses don't bother me, but the home losses to lesser teams just should never have happened.

Veesaar played on Saturday in the first half with Ballo in foul trouble and he wasn't ready for what would have been an easy layup. He's not going to trust those guys if they're not ready to play when needed.

I'm going to assume Veesaar will be back next season. No idea about Kriisa, Tubelis, Ballo and Larsson. In theory, we could return the entire team (minus Ramey and Henderson), but that almost never happens at AZ.

[TheCatInTheHat]

Probably some minority opinions here. We haven't played well for a while, like about since after that game when Zu's family came to see him. Meanwhile, I went to the ASU game. I've followed them a little bit this year, and I don't like 'em, but I recognize they start four good perimeter players who can shoot, they're very athletic, and they can be a tough matchup. No question we played poorly, but that may have been the greatest moment in their basketball history. Their Chuck Cecil moment in hoops. A lot of people are slitting their wrists, but I just shook my head and chalked it up to fate. Maybe we can steal one at Galen, and we'll see about Vegas. For the tourney, I think it's purely matchups (we won't beat a good grinder team) and whether we can be a little smarter with the ball and get on a hot roll from beyond the arc and at the stripe.

[Beachcat97]

For the tourney, I think it's purely matchups (we won't beat a good grinder team) and whether we can be a little smarter with the ball and get on a hot roll from beyond the arc and at the stripe.

How do we become a grinder team? Feels like we're almost never that type of team, and that's what you need to get to the FF.

[TheCatInTheHat]

I thought we were a lot of the way there with CSM, but his offensive approach was pretty limited, and it's also hard to do in the world of P12 officiating without picking up some harmful regular season losses along the way. But...water under the bridge. Considering the three NBA losses and pre-season expectations, Lloyd has done pretty darned well so far this season, although it may start to resemble the end of the 1997 regular season pretty quickly around here. Hard to know what to expect any more with the transfer portal.

[Dave]

I blame the lack of tournament success on the Pac-12 Conference. We need to get out ASAP.

[Beachcat97]

I blame the lack of tournament success on the Pac-12 Conference. We need to get out ASAP.

Why? Because there are normally only 3 good teams in the Pac? Everyone plays in a league tourney, so why should it be different with the Pac?

[BBQ wildcat]

I blame the lack of tournament success on the Pac-12 Conference. We need to get out ASAP.

Why? Because there are normally only 3 good teams in the Pac? Everyone plays in a league tourney, so why should it be different with the Pac?

Officiating. Can't really play tough BB, so PAC teams are soft come tourney time.

[Merkin]

I blame the lack of tournament success on the Pac-12 Conference. We need to get out ASAP.

Lute would agree with you. He used to complain that the touch fouls called in the PAC made it much harder for his teams to win against physical teams from other conferences that are allowed to play tougher.

Look at Tubelis and how frustrated he gets when he gets called for those phantom fouls.

EDIT: Beat me to it BBQ!

[BBQ wildcat]

I blame the lack of tournament success on the Pac-12 Conference. We need to get out ASAP.

Lute would agree with you. He used to complain that the touch fouls called in the PAC made it much harder for his teams to win against physical teams from other conferences that are allowed to play tougher.

Look at Tubelis and how frustrated he gets when he gets called for those phantom fouls.

EDIT: Beat me to it BBQ!

I beat you to it, but you elaborated on the issue much better.

[Lute4God]

For the tourney, I think it's purely matchups (we won't beat a good grinder team) and whether we can be a little smarter with the ball and get on a hot roll from beyond the arc and at the stripe.

How do we become a grinder team? Feels like we're almost never that type of team, and that's what you need to get to the FF.

And yet UA's two best wins of the year may have been their grinders vs Tennessee and UCLA. Both seem like a long time ago now.

[Beachcat97]

For the tourney, I think it's purely matchups (we won't beat a good grinder team) and whether we can be a little smarter with the ball and get on a hot roll from beyond the arc and at the stripe.

How do we become a grinder team? Feels like we're almost never that type of team, and that's what you need to get to the FF.

And yet UA's two best wins of the year may have been their grinders vs Tennessee and UCLA. Both seem like a long time ago now.

It's true. We definitely grinded out those wins. Is it me, or has the team seemed different the last few weeks? The team that beat ucla hasn't shown up lately.

[pc in NM]

For the tourney, I think it's purely matchups (we won't beat a good grinder team) and whether we can be a little smarter with the ball and get on a hot roll from beyond the arc and at the stripe.

How do we become a grinder team? Feels like we're almost never that type of team, and that's what you need to get to the FF.

And yet UA's two best wins of the year may have been their grinders vs Tennessee and UCLA. Both seem like a long time ago now.

It's true. We definitely grinded out those wins. Is it me, or has the team seemed different the last few weeks? The team that beat ucla hasn't shown up lately.

There is some sentiment that Arizona’s “problem” has been one of “focus”; in other words, they’re bored, and just going through the motions.

Now that shouldn’t happen in a 30 game season, but it’s not that uncommon in college. I only mention this because there’s nothing to be unmotivated or bored about in this week’s games - primetime opponents on ESPN with a lot on the line.

ESPN analytics has the USC game as almost a toss-up, and we’re a big dog vs the uclans.

[Dave]

The National Champion almost always comes from one of the major conferences. Since we won it in 1997 the ACC has 9 national championships, Big East (7), SEC (4), Big 12 (3), Big 10 (1), PAC 12 (0).

[EastCoastCat]

The National Champion almost always comes from one of the major conferences. Since we won it in 1997 the ACC has 9 national championships, Big East (7), SEC (4), Big 12 (3), Big 10 (1), PAC 12 (0).

This stat is very depressing...and even more reason to bail on this shithole of a conference ASAP.

[U.P. Zona Fan]

Still #2 at Torvik since Jan 15 even with the 2 losses, behind only Bama. That's 6 weeks now, so the sample size for everyone is growing, everyone has had a couple of stinkers in the last 6 weeks. Some people win their stinkers, we haven't.

I'm still very optimistic on this team and ready to have my hopes dashed against the rocks like an ore boat on lake Superior in the middle of November!

Now bring on March and April, the last 40+ seasons have ended in tears, so I'm used to the crying. Hope it's for Joy this year!!

[arizonawildcats]

[Merkin]

Kind of surprised, since the UA has so many streaky shooters. Kriisa will go 1-7, then go 6-9.

[Beachcat97]

Not gonna put too much stock in 3pt shooting. Gimme defense and a team that knows how to manufacture offense. We actually have that ability, but we've only played our best ball here and there.

I don't know if there's a way to account for "timely" 3pt shooting, but I think this is a much more critical figure than overall 3pt efficiency. Like, which teams hit a high % of 3pt shots in the last five minutes of a game decided by under 10 points?

[Postmaster]

Just seems like they have been too reliant on the three lately.

[U.P. Zona Fan]

#1 at Torvik since Jan 15 after Bamas little dalliance into OT with auburn.

Not that it means anything, but it is a reflection on who is being efficient over the last 6+ weeks