Greg Byrne new Alabama AD

[MrMeow]

what's the status of the new UA president search? thought i saw a blurb in the fall that the ABOR or exec search committee or whatever had plans to initiate proceedings well before the holidays and accelerate the process to find a worthy successor and get that idiot AWH replaced. will a new AD really be comfortable taking a job with so much uncertainty around the senior-most leadership position?

Yes

[EVCat]

I guess I should have known my personal interaction would be boiled down to the reason behind my answer. I was around the athletic department just as much then, too...actually more. My calling Livengood a "good, not great" AD is not borne of one interaction with him.

Somehow the doofus created the relationships, including with Calipari, that kept us going, and kept Lute very happy for the vast majority of his time with Livengood.

And, yes...Lute suffered from depression brought on by his stroke, and it led to some questionable behavior/dictating some bad personnel moves. Or personnel MOVES, if I want to capitalize for effect. Some racquetball playing good soldier got knifed, and a raving lunatic was brought back into the mix. And loosening his rules of returning player buy-in on recruits led to some really questionable characters wearing an Arizona jersey in the later years that would have been nixed by Lute in earlier days. There was a fundamental change in his program, and you can ascribe it to a few different incidents/tragedies, but I believe they were an accumulation of weariness and aging. He also allowed subordinates and outside players more access than he would have in the earlier days, like the Jim Storey/Lute signature situation.

But Livengood's relationship with Lute was strong for years, and soured late. It is fundamentally inaccurate to describe that relationship as antagonistic or even strained for the vast majority of the years they worked together.

Again, Livengood was good, not great. And he existed as AD at a time before the sports property became smoking hot in media as the last live ad space watched on TV, and we had Regents who applied their rules of proper fiscal management quite differently in Tucson than at Tempe. So his "accountant" role was more than just a sidelight of the job. Considering he had to make the decisions that cost beans, not just count them.

[Harvey Specter]

I guess I should have known my personal interaction would be boiled down to the reason behind my answer. I was around the athletic department just as much then, too...actually more. My calling Livengood a "good, not great" AD is not borne of one interaction with him.

Somehow the doofus created the relationships, including with Calipari, that kept us going, and kept Lute very happy for the vast majority of his time with Livengood.

And, yes...Lute suffered from depression brought on by his stroke, and it led to some questionable behavior/dictating some bad personnel moves. Or personnel MOVES, if I want to capitalize for effect. Some racquetball playing good soldier got knifed, and a raving lunatic was brought back into the mix. And loosening his rules of returning player buy-in on recruits led to some really questionable characters wearing an Arizona jersey in the later years that would have been nixed by Lute in earlier days. There was a fundamental change in his program, and you can ascribe it to a few different incidents/tragedies, but I believe they were an accumulation of weariness and aging. He also allowed subordinates and outside players more access than he would have in the earlier days, like the Jim Storey/Lute signature situation.

But Livengood's relationship with Lute was strong for years, and soured late. It is fundamentally inaccurate to describe that relationship as antagonistic or even strained for the vast majority of the years they worked together.

Again, Livengood was good, not great. And he existed as AD at a time before the sports property became smoking hot in media as the last live ad space watched on TV, and we had Regents who applied their rules of proper fiscal management quite differently in Tucson than at Tempe. So his "accountant" role was more than just a sidelight of the job. Considering he had to make the decisions that cost beans, not just count them.

That reminded me of another big feud dating back to the GoAzCats days... with reactions to O'Neill being brought back as a "HC in waiting".

Most (or at least many) posters were behind the idea 100%... and those who voiced their extreme dissatisfaction were vilified. But I don't think even the most staunch opponents of that move ever though it would turn out as disastrous as it did.

As for Lute, the man is the patron saint of UA Athletics and we owe EVERYTHING to him - so there is no need to re-hash the disturbing wpisodes during his final time in position. But those that suggest he was even a shadow of his former self during his waning days here are either delusional, weren't here, or have a very poor memory. It was very apparent something was seriously wrong with him for some time, and it made no sense until his health issues came to light.

[MrMeow]

EVCat, I don't disagree with most of what you say, Jim Story, questionable characters (I think I know the names), depression, mostly a good relationship with Lute, etc. But this isn't about Lute, except keeping Lute happy and having mostly a good relationship with him was about as difficult as falling off a log. Lute loved what he did and where he was doing it. He was vastly underpaid his whole UA career and never squawked (must have made Livengood ecstatic), he just kept plugging. As to financial management, my dog could have done what Livengood did. How hard is it to assign dollars to things, make sure they stay in budget? "Hey Jim, there are two sides to the ledger, how about raising some money?" As to Mackovic, a little due diligence could have saved that one. Really, just a little, not much at all. Putting that disaster aside is like, "other than that Mrs. Lincoln ...." Good but not great? We are going to have to agree to disagree. I think he was way below average. Thank goodness Dr. Shelton thought so too.

[EVCat]

The re-hashing was necessary in context. But yes...in Lute I trust as well. However, things started to wobble far before the stroke.

I love Greg Byrne and am really sad to see him go. But I could also cherry pick and destroy parts of his legacy, too. Though we don't care, the entire AD is under his direction, and we have fallen back in some usually high profile minor sports like softball, swimming and diving and golf. For those that don't care about that, his hiring of RichRod can be looked at by people like me as fantastic at the time, but Mackovic seemed OK, too, yet no one...NO ONE...judges the Mackovic hiring on how he started, only how he ended. So will the RichRod hiring be a total disaster in the end, as we face another struggle of a season with Burmeister de-committing and Anu transferring. Would a .500 season followed by two 3-9 seasons be something we would say was a great hire by Byrne? If Mackovic is all on Livengood, RichRod is all on Byrne. RichRod had success early at least. Stuff got built, but our debt has built considerably and we are not likely to get a huge PAC 12 network hit (that could be blamed partially on the conference, but spending money you don't have is a house of cards at some point). Livengood put together the idea and plans for Lowell/Stevens, and Byrne brought it home. And he doesn't put his foot down on godawful uniforms (no, I do not care about this).

The whole point is I can take pretty big chunks out of Byrne's legacy without some context. And the same can be done for Livengood. Who was the AD when we almost lost Miller again? I mean, the story is we owe more to a sloppy hamburger than Byrne for keeping Miller from Maryland. The Masons sure don't think much of Greg. (Again...not fair. But all the kind of hyperbole that is used to attack Livengood.

Jim Livengood was a good athletic director, and was recognized by NCAA committees and other governing bodies as such.

Greg Byrne was a better AD, is on his upward ascent while we got Livengood at the end of his career, and was a builder. But he didn't hire Miller, almost lost Miller to Maryland if the stories I have read among this population are to be believed, and his football hire is really teetering on disaster. His baseball hire was amazing, but so was Andy Lopez. Byrne's legacy is getting a lot more done and a lot more modernized during a more boom time in the conference.

But yeah...I'd rate Byrne higher than Livengood...without a doubt. It is just easy to stack the deck on legacies.

[EVCat]

EVCat, I don't disagree with most of what you say, Jim Story, questionable characters (I think I know the names), depression, mostly a good relationship with Lute, etc. But this isn't about Lute, except keeping Lute happy and having mostly a good relationship with him was about as difficult as falling off a log. Lute loved what he did and where he was doing it. He was vastly underpaid his whole UA career and never squawked (must have made Livengood ecstatic), he just kept plugging. As to financial management, my dog could have done what Livengood did. How hard is it to assign dollars to things, make sure they stay in budget? "Hey Jim, there are two sides to the ledger, how about raising some money?" As to Mackovic, a little due diligence could have saved that one. Really, just a little, not much at all. Putting that disaster aside is like, "other than that Mrs. Lincoln ...." Good but not great? We are going to have to agree to disagree. I think he was way below average. Thank goodness Dr. Shelton thought so too.

I'd agree with your take on Lute management up to about 2006 or so. He was more interested in a comfortable ride than squeezing the turnip, in part because it would have been a turnip he was squeezing. He knew he was in control, and Livengood recognized Lute was in control. But I disagree with diminishing the relationship building that was necessary. Lute was great at reminding you that you were taking him for granted.

If managing a top level athletic department was so easy without a dependable football program, why are so many programs bleeding? Look up the road 90 miles. Look all over...few athletic departments had the pressure we had on us by our Regents to run in the black. It seems to me like a lot of hyperbole couched as known fact. Mackovic had questions, but we were trying to dig out of a plunging attendance base sick of defensive football (we got a taste with Homer and his descendants) on a severe budget. We took a chance, and there are a lot of people who claim they "knew" when they thought it was a worthy risk at the time.

Livengood ran into a strong personality, and it wasn't Shelton. His career was winding down and it was time for him to go. But he was not a below average AD.

[Harvey Specter]

The re-hashing was necessary in context. But yes...in Lute I trust as well. However, things started to wobble far before the stroke.

I love Greg Byrne and am really sad to see him go. But I could also cherry pick and destroy parts of his legacy, too. Though we don't care, the entire AD is under his direction, and we have fallen back in some usually high profile minor sports like softball, swimming and diving and golf. For those that don't care about that, his hiring of RichRod can be looked at by people like me as fantastic at the time, but Mackovic seemed OK, too, yet no one...NO ONE...judges the Mackovic hiring on how he started, only how he ended. So will the RichRod hiring be a total disaster in the end, as we face another struggle of a season with Burmeister de-committing and Anu transferring. Would a .500 season followed by two 3-9 seasons be something we would say was a great hire by Byrne? If Mackovic is all on Livengood, RichRod is all on Byrne. RichRod had success early at least. Stuff got built, but our debt has built considerably and we are not likely to get a huge PAC 12 network hit (that could be blamed partially on the conference, but spending money you don't have is a house of cards at some point). Livengood put together the idea and plans for Lowell/Stevens, and Byrne brought it home. And he doesn't put his foot down on godawful uniforms (no, I do not care about this).

The whole point is I can take pretty big chunks out of Byrne's legacy without some context. And the same can be done for Livengood. Who was the AD when we almost lost Miller again? I mean, the story is we owe more to a sloppy hamburger than Byrne for keeping Miller from Maryland. The Masons sure don't think much of Greg. (Again...not fair. But all the kind of hyperbole that is used to attack Livengood.

Jim Livengood was a good athletic director, and was recognized by NCAA committees and other governing bodies as such.

Greg Byrne was a better AD, is on his upward ascent while we got Livengood at the end of his career, and was a builder. But he didn't hire Miller, almost lost Miller to Maryland if the stories I have read among this population are to be believed, and his football hire is really teetering on disaster. His baseball hire was amazing, but so was Andy Lopez. Byrne's legacy is getting a lot more done and a lot more modernized during a more boom time in the conference.

But yeah...I'd rate Byrne higher than Livengood...without a doubt. It is just easy to stack the deck on legacies.

Regarding Mackovic... I think there were a LOT of people who saw that as a very questionable hire when it was made. Coupled with the fact that Mack was destroying the program from within, and JL stood by him for longer than he should have - I believe he is rightfully criticized for that gaffe.

Stoops was a hire that I think people were very excited about - I know I was. It did not turn out so well, but I do not see many throwing JL under the bus on that one because it seemed like a great get at the time by just about everybody.

RR was somewhere in the middle. Most of the die-hards on these boards thought it was great... I hated the hire (but understood it), and there were a lot of more casual fans who were not excited about it because of his well-publicized failure in Ann Arbor.

I will say that if RR was not GB's guy, I think his job may have been in serious jeopardy this past season. Stoops '09-10-11 performance was eerily similar to RR's in 14-15-16; MS got the axe in 2011 and RR is back for 2017.

[MrMeow]

The re-hashing was necessary in context. But yes...in Lute I trust as well. However, things started to wobble far before the stroke.

I love Greg Byrne and am really sad to see him go. But I could also cherry pick and destroy parts of his legacy, too. Though we don't care, the entire AD is under his direction, and we have fallen back in some usually high profile minor sports like softball, swimming and diving and golf. For those that don't care about that, his hiring of RichRod can be looked at by people like me as fantastic at the time, but Mackovic seemed OK, too, yet no one...NO ONE...judges the Mackovic hiring on how he started, only how he ended. So will the RichRod hiring be a total disaster in the end, as we face another struggle of a season with Burmeister de-committing and Anu transferring. Would a .500 season followed by two 3-9 seasons be something we would say was a great hire by Byrne? If Mackovic is all on Livengood, RichRod is all on Byrne. RichRod had success early at least. Stuff got built, but our debt has built considerably and we are not likely to get a huge PAC 12 network hit (that could be blamed partially on the conference, but spending money you don't have is a house of cards at some point). Livengood put together the idea and plans for Lowell/Stevens, and Byrne brought it home. And he doesn't put his foot down on godawful uniforms (no, I do not care about this).

The whole point is I can take pretty big chunks out of Byrne's legacy without some context. And the same can be done for Livengood. Who was the AD when we almost lost Miller again? I mean, the story is we owe more to a sloppy hamburger than Byrne for keeping Miller from Maryland. The Masons sure don't think much of Greg. (Again...not fair. But all the kind of hyperbole that is used to attack Livengood.

Jim Livengood was a good athletic director, and was recognized by NCAA committees and other governing bodies as such.

Greg Byrne was a better AD, is on his upward ascent while we got Livengood at the end of his career, and was a builder. But he didn't hire Miller, almost lost Miller to Maryland if the stories I have read among this population are to be believed, and his football hire is really teetering on disaster. His baseball hire was amazing, but so was Andy Lopez. Byrne's legacy is getting a lot more done and a lot more modernized during a more boom time in the conference.

But yeah...I'd rate Byrne higher than Livengood...without a doubt. It is just easy to stack the deck on legacies.

I copied because I can't remember all that. I have to refer back.

First, you can't possibly equate the disaster that was Mackovic to the struggles that are RR. GB did his homework in spades before hiring RR. Livengood lurched at Mackovic in the first interview without doing any due diligence whatsoever - none. That is incompetence at it's finest. To anyone paying attention, Mackovic was bad news from the get go. The end came slowly and painfully. He should have been fired long before he was, and the mistake admitted. More incompetence. Plus, contrary to our resident expert, Chief, RR is not done. None of us is holding our breath, I admit, however, drawing absolute conclusions before completion is incorrect. Burmeister, Anu? Hickups. Kids decommit and transfer at every school and every season. Business as usual. RR isn't even in the same league as Mackovic, before or after he was hired. Mackovic was a totally avoidable disaster. RR is a thoroughly vetted hire, now with mixed results. Too bad, but unlike Livengood, GB made the RR hire carefully and competently.

Could Livengood brought Lowell Stevens home as GB did? That took a lot of fund raising. We'll never know for sure, but I doubt it.

Miller and Maryland? Sean got what he wanted out of that. Smart man. And GB was smart to capitulate. I can still see Livengood tightly clutching the extra Dollars, instead. Buh bye, Sean.

As to the Miller hire, you and I both know Livengood nearly botched that. If it weren't for Calipari, Miller would have stayed at Xavier (Ex Avier according to Livengood. Rememger that?). More incompetence.

The Masons? Who cares? You're right, not fair. Direct that one at Elliott Pitt, no one else. Livengood had athlete problems that were out of his control too. Bobby Wade holding up a kid at an ATM machine comes to mind.

I am going to agree with you about debt. That shit is dangerous. Cal has a looming problem in that category. Bitten off way too much, and they are not alone. I don't know enough about UA athletic debt to say the same of it. Generally speaking, however, it may not be too many years before we see some significant defaults. I hope UA is not included.

Chunks vs. chinks. GB's tenure is not flawless. Whose is? Small chinks. Livengood? Now, those are chunks.

[rgdeuce]

By the way, Miller was close to leaving for Maryland. Is Maryland a better program than Syracuse?

Arguably, yes. It was considered a sleeping giant before Miller turned it down.

Cuse vs. MD isn't even debatable. Cuse has a HOF coach, multiple FFs, a NC, tons of NBA Draft picks, and with the exception of a few seasons here and there, they have been ahead of MD in just about any possible category.

The point, though: Miller seriously considered leaving for what, for all intents and purposes, is a 2nd tier program.

Syracuse is a shithole. The weather is miserable. The people are miserable. Syracuse is not a bigger or better program than Arizona. It is easier to recruit and maintain dominance at Arizona. He already has his name stamped on Arizona basketball - It's the Lute era, then the Miller era. It's clean and already been established. He would then have to go across country and start his own brand from scratch and have to follow in the foot steps of another Hall of Fame coach and deal with all that again. East coast fans aren't as easy to deal with as fans from Tucson.

Seriously, the only jobs I think that would be an upgrade from Arizona = UNC, Duke, Kentucky, Kansas, and Louisville. Even then, a couple of those schools have downsides that may not make it an upgrade (eg: Miller's comments years back about Kentucky fans). And here is the thing: who knows how long Calipari will be at Kentucky? Who knows how much longer Coach K and Roy Williams are going to be coaching. Pitino is getting up there and his nine lives with avoiding program-crushing scandals are running out. Miller is biding his time here at Arizona to be the king of college basketball with Bill Self at Kansas and he can do it at the program he literally picked up from the ashes and brought back to national prominence. It is his program now. Sure, those blue bloods are going to bring in new coaches, but is Kentucky going to have a guy who is going to recruit at the same level as Calipari? Doubt it. You think Capel at Duke is going to do it at the same level as Coach K? Doubt it.

[rgdeuce]

Here's a contrarian view: Sean Miller was already hired here before Greg Byrne stared and our football program is still a steaming pile of shit. Byrne seemed like a great guy with a real positive attitude that worked hard, but really what did he accomplish?

Completely changed the way the AD communicates and engages with fans.
Moved baseball to Hi Corbett and hired a guy who took them to the finals.
Guided the NEZ roll-out.
Hired a women's basketball coach who by all accounts is going to turn it around.
Made us all forget about the Livengood era.

Not to mention that even though the football program sucks now, the guy he hired did take us to a PAC-12 championship game and Fiesta Bowl.

From an operational point of view, fundraising for the new football facilities, and moving baseball to Hi Corbett which sparked a national title. From a hiring perspective, RR is really his only hire that didn't turn out. New soccer coach brought that program back from the dead to a tourney birth, obviously Jay Johnson and the CWS, and there's more excitement around women's basketball than at any other time since 2004. There was an article when JJ was hired that listed every hire GB had, but I can't seem to find it.

These gentlemen covered most of it, and I'm sure someone finished it off thereafter. All one has to do is stand in the middle of that 4-way intersection between McKale, Arizona Stadium, and what used to be Sancet field and do a 360 degree turn, then take a quick tour of McKale. Byrne brought Arizona Athletics into the 21st century and beyond, in a city that is generally apathetic toward sports and is pretty low on the "economic" totem pole. Our facilities rank up there with the best in the nation. The foundation has been laid for our money-generating programs to succeed for the next 20 years. He kept the nation's top "young" basketball head coach in town and happy when others where trying to pry him away, and laid the groundwork for his replacement to at least have a decent head start on keeping him. Seriously, if Byrne was not our AD, I am certain Sean Miller would not be our coach right now. At the time, Rich Rod was arguably a home run hire, I don't think we could have done much better.

From at least what I can tell, Byrne's link to the fans was extremely rare for a power conference school, if not unprecedented. He realized the importance of social media and fan input. He kept us happy. My son took a picture with his favorite player, Gabe York. I was extremely impressed with how Gabe was with my son and how he went out of his way to make a kid's year. I tweeted the picture and commented how great Gabe was and mentioned Byrne in the tweet, because I knew Byrne would actually pay attention to the tweet and in some way Gabe and/or the coaching staff would be given their due kudos or thank yous by Byrne for being great young men. And as the CEO of Arizona Athletics, he needed to know his people were doing good. What I did not expect was for Byrne to retweet my tweet, so it was cool to see one of my son's most excited moments all over twitter and Gabe getting his due props from countless Arizona fans. How many AD's do that? How many AD's walk up to the upper level seats to chop it up and give hugs to a long-time Arizona fan who recently became widowed? That made her year. Moments later, he came to me and shook my hand and posed for a picture with me. He asked how I was doing and asked a "how can we do things better" question and engaged in further conversation and it was 100% genuine. I've crossed paths with so many Arizona basketball players, guys playing in the NBA right now. I have no problems asking for a picture, but I just dont do it. The last person I took a pic with was Carmelo Anthony, so you got to be on that level or close.. But to me, Byrne was a rock star and I had to ask him. The only Arizona guys I would ask right now is Sean Miller and Lauri. That says something.

I have been telling friends this for years: Byrne is the best young AD in the country and as soon as a Florida, Alabama, or Texas has an opening he is gone because he will be the first one offered. Alabama has had their eye on him this entire time and knew he was their guy when the time came. We can sit here and point to the lack of final fours or rose bowls all we want, Byrne put our athletic programs and their coaches in the best possible positions to succeed and that is all an AD can do. I could give a flying F about an athletic director, outside of Greg Byrne. I have a man crush on Miller and Byrne is a close 2nd, gonna miss the dude.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm not sure Duke and Louisville are upgrades. Duke is in a fertile recruiting ground, but has a ton of competition. Cameron has history, but the facilities don't jump out. I've criticized K for not being the saint he's made out to be, but he is a great coach. Is Duke's success him or just Duke as a job?

Ville is the opposite. Great facilities, less recruiting and direct competition with UK. Pre-Pitino, they were a decent, not spectacular program. Pitino is a straight scumbag, but a good coach. They lose him and the major selling point are the facilities. We can match that, IMO.

I agree on UNC, UK and KU. They would be my personal top three. Even the homer in me thinks we need another ring or two to make that echelon. I would personally put UCLA over Duke or Louisville, though since the Pauley reno. If it wasn't for the blah fan support, they would round out a hard top four.

Right now I see the big three and the second tier with 4-10 fighting it out. I see Arizona in that mix.

[EVCat]

I'm not sure Duke and Louisville are upgrades.

Duke very much seems like the flower in the desert. It confounds all reason they are as good as they are, because nothing suggests they should be (smaller academic school with venerable but rickety facilities in the shadow of the mighty UNC and the rest of the college basketball heartland). Bill Foster got Duke into the national mix in 1978, but this is 99.4% Coach K's work.

And sometimes an amazing coach can work miracles where others cannot. He has laid enough groundwork where Capel or whomever follows should remain successful. But Duke will cease to be Duke the day he leaves. Yeah, people could have said that about us, but the benefits of Arizona that Lute saw and exploited (easy to recruit to, only UCLA and one regional rotator (UNLV, UW, Stanford, Gonzaga) to recruit against, one of only two major D1 state universities in Arizona) are still here. And we got lucky, too.

[ASUHATER!]

Yeah once K leaves Duke will still be a big time force that will win a lot of games and be successful, but they won't be DUKE anymore. They still be a team that contends for titles a lot of the time...but it won't be the same.

[Spaceman Spiff]

I'm not sure Duke and Louisville are upgrades.

Duke very much seems like the flower in the desert. It confounds all reason they are as good as they are, because nothing suggests they should be (smaller academic school with venerable but rickety facilities in the shadow of the mighty UNC and the rest of the college basketball heartland). Bill Foster got Duke into the national mix in 1978, but this is 99.4% Coach K's work.

And sometimes an amazing coach can work miracles where others cannot. He has laid enough groundwork where Capel or whomever follows should remain successful. But Duke will cease to be Duke the day he leaves. Yeah, people could have said that about us, but the benefits of Arizona that Lute saw and exploited (easy to recruit to, only UCLA and one regional rotator (UNLV, UW, Stanford, Gonzaga) to recruit against, one of only two major D1 state universities in Arizona) are still here. And we got lucky, too.

Arizona hit the jackpot with Miller. We have advantages, but not so many that we could have survived a Matt Doherty.

Arizona has the best facilities and fan support west of Lawrence, Kansas. We play plenty of games in Cali every year, enough to consider Cali home recruiting. There just isn't as much competition on the west coast for recruits, and if you do well in Cali, you will have talent.

Our tradition similarly is better than everyone in the west except for UCLA. This isn't the triangle, where you have two top ten perennials in 10 miles. We've been right there with UCLA except for their three straight FF years. Frankly, we've been better than them other than that stretch.

[CalStateTempe]

Duke is going to have a rough time after K.

They recruit Chicago and NY/NJ hard. That's all K.

[ChooChooCat]

I'm not sure Duke and Louisville are upgrades.

I see Louisville as an upgrade solely in the amount of money they can pay, but as far as quality of job I don't see it as an upgrade either.

[TheGreatCatsby]

I liked Byrne, and he did get the football upgrades off the ground. Still so much to be done there though, from further stadium renovations and an indoor practice facility. That's my biggest negative, he didn't get that further along, the indoor facility. Overall, though, football revenues just didn't increase as much as Byrne would have liked (and he was right when he started here, and is right now, in saying that football needs to be a major revenue sport to carry the entire department), and now he's CEO of a $100 million football business that is Alabama football, and he doesn't have to worry about ridiculous things like fans showing up to games.

[1560s Guy]

On a different note, is this the first and only story Hansen has ever broken?

Loren Woods' back surgery.

[MrMeow]

I guess I should have known my personal interaction would be boiled down to the reason behind my answer. I was around the athletic department just as much then, too...actually more. My calling Livengood a "good, not great" AD is not borne of one interaction with him.

Somehow the doofus created the relationships, including with Calipari, that kept us going, and kept Lute very happy for the vast majority of his time with Livengood.

And, yes...Lute suffered from depression brought on by his stroke, and it led to some questionable behavior/dictating some bad personnel moves. Or personnel MOVES, if I want to capitalize for effect. Some racquetball playing good soldier got knifed, and a raving lunatic was brought back into the mix. And loosening his rules of returning player buy-in on recruits led to some really questionable characters wearing an Arizona jersey in the later years that would have been nixed by Lute in earlier days. There was a fundamental change in his program, and you can ascribe it to a few different incidents/tragedies, but I believe they were an accumulation of weariness and aging. He also allowed subordinates and outside players more access than he would have in the earlier days, like the Jim Storey/Lute signature situation.

But Livengood's relationship with Lute was strong for years, and soured late. It is fundamentally inaccurate to describe that relationship as antagonistic or even strained for the vast majority of the years they worked together.

Again, Livengood was good, not great. And he existed as AD at a time before the sports property became smoking hot in media as the last live ad space watched on TV, and we had Regents who applied their rules of proper fiscal management quite differently in Tucson than at Tempe. So his "accountant" role was more than just a sidelight of the job. Considering he had to make the decisions that cost beans, not just count them.

I'll fill in the names you left out just for fun:

Jim R. (tennis, not raquetball)
K.O.
Chris R.
McClellan
ex Memphis H.C.

Yes, that was a rough time for Lute. Wasn't Yoko (Christine) in the picture then too?

[splitsecond]

EVCat, I don't disagree with most of what you say, Jim Story, questionable characters (I think I know the names), depression, mostly a good relationship with Lute, etc. But this isn't about Lute, except keeping Lute happy and having mostly a good relationship with him was about as difficult as falling off a log. Lute loved what he did and where he was doing it. He was vastly underpaid his whole UA career and never squawked (must have made Livengood ecstatic), he just kept plugging. As to financial management, my dog could have done what Livengood did. How hard is it to assign dollars to things, make sure they stay in budget? "Hey Jim, there are two sides to the ledger, how about raising some money?" As to Mackovic, a little due diligence could have saved that one. Really, just a little, not much at all. Putting that disaster aside is like, "other than that Mrs. Lincoln ...." Good but not great? We are going to have to agree to disagree. I think he was way below average. Thank goodness Dr. Shelton thought so too.

I'd agree with your take on Lute management up to about 2006 or so. He was more interested in a comfortable ride than squeezing the turnip, in part because it would have been a turnip he was squeezing. He knew he was in control, and Livengood recognized Lute was in control. But I disagree with diminishing the relationship building that was necessary. Lute was great at reminding you that you were taking him for granted.

If managing a top level athletic department was so easy without a dependable football program, why are so many programs bleeding? Look up the road 90 miles. Look all over...few athletic departments had the pressure we had on us by our Regents to run in the black. It seems to me like a lot of hyperbole couched as known fact. Mackovic had questions, but we were trying to dig out of a plunging attendance base sick of defensive football (we got a taste with Homer and his descendants) on a severe budget. We took a chance, and there are a lot of people who claim they "knew" when they thought it was a worthy risk at the time.

Livengood ran into a strong personality, and it wasn't Shelton. His career was winding down and it was time for him to go. But he was not a below average AD.

fucking lololololololol at the idea that his football hire is teetering on disaster because a QB who has proven to be mentally and physically frail is transferring

[Harvey Specter]

EVCat, I don't disagree with most of what you say, Jim Story, questionable characters (I think I know the names), depression, mostly a good relationship with Lute, etc. But this isn't about Lute, except keeping Lute happy and having mostly a good relationship with him was about as difficult as falling off a log. Lute loved what he did and where he was doing it. He was vastly underpaid his whole UA career and never squawked (must have made Livengood ecstatic), he just kept plugging. As to financial management, my dog could have done what Livengood did. How hard is it to assign dollars to things, make sure they stay in budget? "Hey Jim, there are two sides to the ledger, how about raising some money?" As to Mackovic, a little due diligence could have saved that one. Really, just a little, not much at all. Putting that disaster aside is like, "other than that Mrs. Lincoln ...." Good but not great? We are going to have to agree to disagree. I think he was way below average. Thank goodness Dr. Shelton thought so too.

I'd agree with your take on Lute management up to about 2006 or so. He was more interested in a comfortable ride than squeezing the turnip, in part because it would have been a turnip he was squeezing. He knew he was in control, and Livengood recognized Lute was in control. But I disagree with diminishing the relationship building that was necessary. Lute was great at reminding you that you were taking him for granted.

If managing a top level athletic department was so easy without a dependable football program, why are so many programs bleeding? Look up the road 90 miles. Look all over...few athletic departments had the pressure we had on us by our Regents to run in the black. It seems to me like a lot of hyperbole couched as known fact. Mackovic had questions, but we were trying to dig out of a plunging attendance base sick of defensive football (we got a taste with Homer and his descendants) on a severe budget. We took a chance, and there are a lot of people who claim they "knew" when they thought it was a worthy risk at the time.

Livengood ran into a strong personality, and it wasn't Shelton. His career was winding down and it was time for him to go. But he was not a below average AD.

fucking lololololololol at the idea that his football hire is teetering on disaster because a QB who has proven to be mentally and physically frail is transferring

Are you saying that a healthy Anu turns this program from teetering on disaster to being in fine shape?

If so, that's an LOL.

[TheGreatCatsby]

Well, it's just clearly a pretty big year for Rich coming up. Not sure if a bad 3-9 next year would necessarily get him fired, but possibly if it's the same old story of tremendous injuries, perhaps the new building/coaches are wearing out the labor. Do wish we'd get going on the indoor facility, with our rains and heat during the summer training period, that would be a big upgrade to maybe address the injury issue somehow.

The mini crisis of course is the turnover of the two heads of state all at once, with one lame duck announcing an AD hire that is basically a major recruiting arm for the university. The athletic department brands the university for the whole nation. Maybe picking people like an HR manager is one of Ann's strong suits? Heard that on the radio that the University of Alabama's enrollment went up by 20,000 students during Saban's run there. So the AD department affects the academic university as well; behind the scenes, there are many different supporters/boosters who may also have input on the transition.

[azgreg]

[azgreg]

[baconus66]

Well that's really best case scenario in my opinion. Dempsey identified Byrne as the person we should hire last time and LaRose was the interim and ensured a smooth transition to get Byrne off to a running start.

[ChooChooCat]

Having Dempsey involved is great news.

[PieceOfMeat]

Way to go Ann Weaver Hart. Very good decision bringing them on board.

I'm curious, what are peoples' thoughts on Erika Barnes?

[MrMeow]

Way to go Ann Weaver Hart. Very good decision bringing them on board.

I'm curious, what are peoples' thoughts on Erika Barnes?

We are fortunate that UA sports, especially basketball, is a big deal to Dr. Hart.

[ChooChooCat]

Way to go Ann Weaver Hart. Very good decision bringing them on board.

I'm curious, what are peoples' thoughts on Erika Barnes?

There's a spot for her as a fundraiser on this staff, not as an AD.

[PieceOfMeat]

Way to go Ann Weaver Hart. Very good decision bringing them on board.

I'm curious, what are peoples' thoughts on Erika Barnes?

There's a spot for her as a fundraiser on this staff, not as an AD.

So you'd demote her from where she was before Byrne left?

[ChooChooCat]

Way to go Ann Weaver Hart. Very good decision bringing them on board.

I'm curious, what are peoples' thoughts on Erika Barnes?

There's a spot for her as a fundraiser on this staff, not as an AD.

So you'd demote her from where she was before Byrne left?

I'm sorry, I don't know what her exact job title was prior to her being bumped up, but I know the vast majority of her responsibilities revolved around fundraising. I was just insinuating her old position is a great spot for her at this point of her career.

[EVCat]

I love Greg Byrne and am really sad to see him go. But I could also cherry pick and destroy parts of his legacy, too.

I copied because I can't remember all that. I have to refer back.

First, you can't possibly equate the disaster that was Mackovic to the struggles that are RR. GB did his homework in spades before hiring RR. Livengood lurched at Mackovic in the first interview without doing any due diligence whatsoever - none. That is incompetence at it's finest. To anyone paying attention, Mackovic was bad news from the get go. The end came slowly and painfully. He should have been fired long before he was, and the mistake admitted. More incompetence. Plus, contrary to our resident expert, Chief, RR is not done. None of us is holding our breath, I admit, however, drawing absolute conclusions before completion is incorrect. Burmeister, Anu? Hickups. Kids decommit and transfer at every school and every season. Business as usual. RR isn't even in the same league as Mackovic, before or after he was hired. Mackovic was a totally avoidable disaster. RR is a thoroughly vetted hire, now with mixed results. Too bad, but unlike Livengood, GB made the RR hire carefully and competently.

Could Livengood brought Lowell Stevens home as GB did? That took a lot of fund raising. We'll never know for sure, but I doubt it.

Miller and Maryland? Sean got what he wanted out of that. Smart man. And GB was smart to capitulate. I can still see Livengood tightly clutching the extra Dollars, instead. Buh bye, Sean.

As to the Miller hire, you and I both know Livengood nearly botched that. If it weren't for Calipari, Miller would have stayed at Xavier (Ex Avier according to Livengood. Rememger that?). More incompetence.

The Masons? Who cares? You're right, not fair. Direct that one at Elliott Pitt, no one else. Livengood had athlete problems that were out of his control too. Bobby Wade holding up a kid at an ATM machine comes to mind.

I am going to agree with you about debt. That shit is dangerous. Cal has a looming problem in that category. Bitten off way too much, and they are not alone. I don't know enough about UA athletic debt to say the same of it. Generally speaking, however, it may not be too many years before we see some significant defaults. I hope UA is not included.

Chunks vs. chinks. GB's tenure is not flawless. Whose is? Small chinks. Livengood? Now, those are chunks.

As I said, my post was a trash job...how one could take normal events and hold them against the AD...which I think you are doing, by and large, with Livengood. And if the debt is really a concern of yours, you cannot dismiss Livengood as nothing more than an accountant.

The truth lies somewhere between my exaggerated telling of the story and yours. I think you are quick to dismiss the things that Livengood did (his accountant role, the relationship with Calipari that saved the day with Miller, the budget realities that almost killed the Miller deal that are way more on how the Regents have treated us as compared to ASU, and so on).

Which is why I say Livengood was good (as recognized by his peers), not great (dynamic in a way that soaks through to the fan level where we can even say "that guy was awesome"). And why I say Byrne was great (recognized by his peers and dynamic in that way).

[EVCat]

EVCat, I don't disagree with most of what you say, Jim Story, questionable characters (I think I know the names), depression, mostly a good relationship with Lute, etc. But this isn't about Lute, except keeping Lute happy and having mostly a good relationship with him was about as difficult as falling off a log. Lute loved what he did and where he was doing it. He was vastly underpaid his whole UA career and never squawked (must have made Livengood ecstatic), he just kept plugging. As to financial management, my dog could have done what Livengood did. How hard is it to assign dollars to things, make sure they stay in budget? "Hey Jim, there are two sides to the ledger, how about raising some money?" As to Mackovic, a little due diligence could have saved that one. Really, just a little, not much at all. Putting that disaster aside is like, "other than that Mrs. Lincoln ...." Good but not great? We are going to have to agree to disagree. I think he was way below average. Thank goodness Dr. Shelton thought so too.

I'd agree with your take on Lute management up to about 2006 or so. He was more interested in a comfortable ride than squeezing the turnip, in part because it would have been a turnip he was squeezing. He knew he was in control, and Livengood recognized Lute was in control. But I disagree with diminishing the relationship building that was necessary. Lute was great at reminding you that you were taking him for granted.

If managing a top level athletic department was so easy without a dependable football program, why are so many programs bleeding? Look up the road 90 miles. Look all over...few athletic departments had the pressure we had on us by our Regents to run in the black. It seems to me like a lot of hyperbole couched as known fact. Mackovic had questions, but we were trying to dig out of a plunging attendance base sick of defensive football (we got a taste with Homer and his descendants) on a severe budget. We took a chance, and there are a lot of people who claim they "knew" when they thought it was a worthy risk at the time.

Livengood ran into a strong personality, and it wasn't Shelton. His career was winding down and it was time for him to go. But he was not a below average AD.

fucking lololololololol at the idea that his football hire is teetering on disaster because a QB who has proven to be mentally and physically frail is transferring

OK...I have read this a few times...what am I missing here about Anu? Is he mentioned anywhere above? I mentioned him in a post about Rich Rod facing a potentially bad season with Burmeister decommitting and Anu transferring, but didn't claim that had anything to do with Rich Rod's struggles. Just that he is staring down the barrel of another 3-9 season, and wasn't even close to putting all of that on Anu transferring. Just there is not likely to be a resurrection in the upcoming year with our current QB staff.

So, again...what am I missing?

[EVCat]

EVCat, I don't disagree with most of what you say, Jim Story, questionable characters (I think I know the names), depression, mostly a good relationship with Lute, etc. But this isn't about Lute, except keeping Lute happy and having mostly a good relationship with him was about as difficult as falling off a log. Lute loved what he did and where he was doing it. He was vastly underpaid his whole UA career and never squawked (must have made Livengood ecstatic), he just kept plugging. As to financial management, my dog could have done what Livengood did. How hard is it to assign dollars to things, make sure they stay in budget? "Hey Jim, there are two sides to the ledger, how about raising some money?" As to Mackovic, a little due diligence could have saved that one. Really, just a little, not much at all. Putting that disaster aside is like, "other than that Mrs. Lincoln ...." Good but not great? We are going to have to agree to disagree. I think he was way below average. Thank goodness Dr. Shelton thought so too.

I'd agree with your take on Lute management up to about 2006 or so. He was more interested in a comfortable ride than squeezing the turnip, in part because it would have been a turnip he was squeezing. He knew he was in control, and Livengood recognized Lute was in control. But I disagree with diminishing the relationship building that was necessary. Lute was great at reminding you that you were taking him for granted.

If managing a top level athletic department was so easy without a dependable football program, why are so many programs bleeding? Look up the road 90 miles. Look all over...few athletic departments had the pressure we had on us by our Regents to run in the black. It seems to me like a lot of hyperbole couched as known fact. Mackovic had questions, but we were trying to dig out of a plunging attendance base sick of defensive football (we got a taste with Homer and his descendants) on a severe budget. We took a chance, and there are a lot of people who claim they "knew" when they thought it was a worthy risk at the time.

Livengood ran into a strong personality, and it wasn't Shelton. His career was winding down and it was time for him to go. But he was not a below average AD.

fucking lololololololol at the idea that his football hire is teetering on disaster because a QB who has proven to be mentally and physically frail is transferring

Are you saying that a healthy Anu turns this program from teetering on disaster to being in fine shape?

If so, that's an LOL.

This is like a bad online game of telephone.

Except in the Telephone game, it is about losing the message when a few people hear it and re-tell it. This? All of it is in print above.

Where the hell did anyone say Anu would save Arizona football?

[Chicat]

Byrne should probably shut up while the dumpster fire at his former school still burns nice and hot.

[prh]

Byrne should probably shut up while the dumpster fire at his former school still burns nice and hot.

What a prick

[azcat49]

F him. He his in the perfect conference for his corrupt self

[Merkin]

[Beachcat97]

Has anything come out that credibly implicates GB in the recruiting scandal? If so, I missed it. Or is it just that, as AD, he simply *had* to be involved in any shadiness going on with FB or BB?

[Chicat]

Has anything come out that credibly implicates GB in the recruiting scandal? If so, I missed it. Or is it just that, as AD, he simply *had* to be involved in any shadiness going on with FB or BB?

He led an athletic department that’s had multiple scandals in Basketball, Football, and Track & Field under his watch. I fault him as much as anyone. At the very least he turned a blind eye to abuse and corruption and was completely complicit in covering up those things.

[DrWildcat]

Byrne should probably shut up while the dumpster fire at his former school still burns nice and hot.

Alabama fans are so sensitive about UCF claiming a championship so I'm sure they loved this. I really don't remember Byrne calling any other school/team out while he was AD at Arizona. Seemed like he mostly just put out generic great game/athletic news tweets so I'm a little surprised by this. Although, maybe I shouldn't be considering all that has come out.

[Harvey Specter]

I was more positive than not on Byrne (and I will happily own that) but I remember when ANY of us who said anything short of "Greg Byrne is the greatest AD in our school's history" were met with ridicule and scoffed at.

I overestimated him... but I never worshipped the guy. He could not have held aced Dempsey's jock.

Never trust anyone THAT ambitious...

[Chicat]

I was more positive than not on Byrne (and I will happily own that) but I remember when ANY of us who said anything short of "Greg Byrne is the greatest AD in our school's history" were met with ridicule and scoffed at.

I overestimated him... but I never worshipped the guy. He could not have held aced Dempsey's jock.

Never trust anyone THAT ambitious...

For a lot of people, Byrne was a breath of fresh air after the Livengood regime. His affect on the culture of communication between the AD and the average fan/alum was a total sea change and made many of us both near and far feel valued.

I’m not sure how anyone was supposed to know what was going on behind the scenes, or how we could have tempered our praise for the good things he was doing outwardly without knowing what was being kept private.

I can understand the thought process behind knowing that no one is perfect, and that big time college athletics is at its heart a corrupt business, but absolutely no one can honestly say that they knew all along the type of trouble Byrne would leave in his wake. And if anyone did make that prediction prior to his departure I’d love to get a link to those posts.

[CardiacCats97]

[KillerKlown]

Yeah, well when your program brings in millions and millions each year just from donors it kinda helps. I'm jealous.

[AZCatGirl]

If Sean Miller had to be moved to Arch Rivals, this thread better be moved next.

[prh]

Fuck Byrne

[CatsbyAZ]

To elaborate:

Football player Jermaine Burton strikes Tennesee coed on field
Football player Tony Mitchell arrested for gun & weed
Basketball player Darius Miles arrested for capital murder
Basketball player Brandon Miller investigated as accomplice to murder
Basketball transfer commit Jaykwon Walton arrest for gun & weed
Baseball coach Brad Bohannon fired amid point shaving investigation
Deputy AD Travis Self arrested for domestic violence

[wyo-cat]

When it’s all lined out like that. Damn!!

What a brutal year.

[Merkin]

Players should go to Arizona, guns and weeds are legal!