7 Jayden de Laura

[AzCatFan2]

Rittenhouse was tried as an adult. That's why the case was on full public view. There's an argument that the case should have been tried in juvenile court (https://jlc.org/news/kyle-rittenhouse-w ... een-better)

[CardiacCats97]

Rittenhouse was tried as an adult. That's why the case was on full public view. There's an argument that the case should have been tried in juvenile court (https://jlc.org/news/kyle-rittenhouse-w ... een-better)

Rittenhouse was acquitted. DeLaura was convicted. We know this, so spare me the three paragraph dance about juvenile court and sealed records. The facts are as I outlined them in the first two sentences.

Please show me in your extensive review of the law where it says JDL has to play football for the University of Arizona.

[AzCatFan2]

Rittenhouse was tried as an adult. That's why the case was on full public view. There's an argument that the case should have been tried in juvenile court (https://jlc.org/news/kyle-rittenhouse-w ... een-better)

Rittenhouse was acquitted. DeLaura was convicted. We know this, so spare me the three paragraph dance about juvenile court and sealed records. The facts are as I outlined them in the first two sentences.

Please show me in your extensive review of the law where it says JDL has to play football for the University of Arizona.

JDL doesn't have play football for anyone. But if we kick JDL off the team for his juvenile record, of which we don't know the details, because they are sealed, shouldn't we go over the records of every football player to ensure they don't have a similar juvenile record? But that's a major problem. Those records are sealed too. So why should all other students, not just athletes, have the legal protections provided by the fact juvie records are sealed, but JDL doesn't?

[MrMeow]

With JDL on the team, after several decades as an alum and fan, I have lost nearly all enthusiasm for UA football. Not sure I'll do more this season than check scores on Sunday morning out of curiosity. Benching this sleeezball, a la Elliot Pitts, would help considerably, but apparently it's too late to dismiss him. Our "winning is everything" people have prevailed.

It will now be interesting to see how he is treated by the team and the student body, and what effect that may have.

In Noah I trust

[CardiacCats97]

Rittenhouse was tried as an adult. That's why the case was on full public view. There's an argument that the case should have been tried in juvenile court (https://jlc.org/news/kyle-rittenhouse-w ... een-better)

Rittenhouse was acquitted. DeLaura was convicted. We know this, so spare me the three paragraph dance about juvenile court and sealed records. The facts are as I outlined them in the first two sentences.

Please show me in your extensive review of the law where it says JDL has to play football for the University of Arizona.

JDL doesn't have play football for anyone. But if we kick JDL off the team for his juvenile record, of which we don't know the details, because they are sealed, shouldn't we go over the records of every football player to ensure they don't have a similar juvenile record? But that's a major problem. Those records are sealed too. So why should all other students, not just athletes, have the legal protections provided by the fact juvie records are sealed, but JDL doesn't?

I don’t know why you’re even arguing. You’re getting what you want (presumably, more TDs).

Please tell your daughter to watch her drink when she’s at parties at UA. Especially if there’s a football player with a super creepy mustache there too.

[AzCatFan2]

I don't care about the play on the field. I said before, I believe Fifita has a much better upside. We can win the JDL, but his ceiling is likely late NFL draft choice, and most likely UDFA. Fifita has the tools to be a first day pick, in my opinion. The game just needs to slow down for him. If Fifita ends up being the starter some time during the season, I think this bodes well not only for his future, but the team's future as well.

No, this is about two basic questions. One, why did the prosecutor agree to a plea deal to convict both kids as juveniles? The prosecutor could have sought to charge both as adults, but didn't. We can speculate until the cows come home, but we will likely never know the answer. Some speculations put JDL in a more poor light, like the prosecutor and judge were football fans, and were more lenient on the kids because they were local football stars. Other speculations put a different spin on what happened. For example, the prosecutor though the victim in this case was unreliable for some reason(s), and thought an adult conviction was unlikely.

Second question is this. Every student on campus enjoys protection from the law that seals juvenile records. Why should JDL be different? If your answer is, because he admitted to rape, how can you be sure he's the only one on the team that has a similar record? Do you really want to open the can of worms that would be attempting to investigate every member of the team, and possibly every student on campus to ensure none of them have a similar juvie record as JDL does?

[GlobalCat]

The questions have been answered multiple time - you are just too dimwitted to process it.

[AzCatFan2]

The questions have been answered multiple time - you are just too dimwitted to process it.

No they haven't. And certainly not to my satisfaction. The first question can't be answered, because the criminal files are sealed. The second one, someone suggested appointing a special master to look at all athletes currently on scholarship. Is that really a road we want to go on?

[Alieberman]

Ok AZCat let's simplify this?

Do you have any problem watching / supporting AZ football knowing a rapist is your starting QB?

Simple question... don't need to hear about juvenile yada yada yada prosecutor yada yada yada.

Yes or No

[AzCatFan2]

Ok AZCat let's simplify this?

Do you have any problem watching / supporting AZ football knowing a rapist is your starting QB?

Simple question... don't need to hear about juvenile yada yada yada prosecutor yada yada yada.

Yes or No

I'm certainly not happy about it. But I support the legal precedent that juvenile cases should remain sealed. Are you happy that there might be other scholarship athletes that have similar juvie records as JDL and we may never know about it?

We should apply the same logic and protections to kids with juvie records. Either we allow them to remain closed and take no action upon them. Or, we push to have them all opened. What's the difference about cheering for a rapist as QB then cheering for a rapist LB, starting center, or third-baseman?

[Alieberman]

Ok AZCat let's simplify this?

Do you have any problem watching / supporting AZ football knowing a rapist is your starting QB?

Simple question... don't need to hear about juvenile yada yada yada prosecutor yada yada yada.

Yes or No

I'm certainly not happy about it. But I support the legal precedent that juvenile cases should remain sealed. Are you happy that there might be other scholarship athletes that have similar juvie records as JDL and we may never know about it?

We should apply the same logic and protections to kids with juvie records. Either we allow them to remain closed and take no action upon them. Or, we push to have them all opened. What's the difference about cheering for a rapist as QB then cheering for a rapist LB, starting center, or third-baseman?

I don't know why I continue...

I don't give 1 fuck about juvie records... don't know why you have a major hard-on for them.

It's simple for me-

There is no way I can morally cheer for a 50 yard TD pass from JDL.. I therefore cannot watch / support / follow an AZ football game while he is on team.

Same way that I can't watch another Mel Gibson film or Woody Allen Movie (And I fucking loved Woody Allen)

[CardiacCats97]

LOL at AzCatFan2 still hiding behind the legal intracacies of juvenile court.

You know he’s a convicted rapist. But the court in which that conviction happened in apparently allows you to memory-hole that fact and pretend it didn’t happen? Truly happy for you my man.

[AzCatFan2]

Ok AZCat let's simplify this?

Do you have any problem watching / supporting AZ football knowing a rapist is your starting QB?

Simple question... don't need to hear about juvenile yada yada yada prosecutor yada yada yada.

Yes or No

I'm certainly not happy about it. But I support the legal precedent that juvenile cases should remain sealed. Are you happy that there might be other scholarship athletes that have similar juvie records as JDL and we may never know about it?

We should apply the same logic and protections to kids with juvie records. Either we allow them to remain closed and take no action upon them. Or, we push to have them all opened. What's the difference about cheering for a rapist as QB then cheering for a rapist LB, starting center, or third-baseman?

I don't know why I continue...

I don't give 1 fuck about juvie records... don't know why you have a major hard-on for them.

It's simple for me-

There is no way I can morally cheer for a 50 yard TD pass from JDL.. I therefore cannot watch / support / follow an AZ football game while he is on team.

Same way that I can't watch another Mel Gibson film or Woody Allen Movie (And I fucking loved Woody Allen)

The lead the charge to make JDL persona-non-grata on campus. Get the students, staff, alumni, and fans together and lodge a major protest. I'd support it. And if JDL transfers out because he no longer feels welcome, problem solved.

But don't force the University to act upon juvenile criminal records. Do that for one play, then shouldn't we do that for all players? I ask again, what difference does it make if the convicted rapist is a QB, LB, Center for the basketball team, or 3rd baseman on the baseball team?

Good luck trying to convince any judge in the country to unseal juvie records. They are sealed for many reasons, one of them is to allow a clean slate for the kid once he/she becomes an adult. Mel Gibson and Woody Allen? They were adults when the charges were lobbied against them. JDL could have been charged as an adult for his crime, but for whatever reason, he wasn't. Maybe that doesn't change things for you, but for many, the fact juvie records are sealed and expunged upon adulthood has greatly benefited them. Make an exception and have the University punish JDL for his juvie record, and it opens up the can of worms concerning every athlete, and every student to try and make them accountable for their juvie record as well.

[AzCatFan2]

LOL at AzCatFan2 still hiding behind the legal intracacies of juvenile court.

You know he’s a convicted rapist. But the court in which that conviction happened in apparently allows you to memory-hole that fact and pretend it didn’t happen? Truly happy for you my man.

Don't like the fact juvie records are sealed and records expunged at adulthood? Change the law. Meanwhile, there are other players with juvie records you are going to be cheering for in the future. I guess if the records remained sealed and you never know you can stay blissfully unaware?

[EastCoastCat]

Besides the humor provided by AzCatFan2, do we know if there were any legal reasons why Arizona did not dismiss JDL? Is the evidence brought to light by the civil case "inadmissible" sort of speak? I assume since it's now public record it's fair game.

Would like to hear from any lawyer types on this board.

[Alieberman]

I ask again, what difference does it make if the convicted rapist is a QB, LB, Center for the basketball team, or 3rd baseman on the baseball team?

Zero, nada, zilch.

I'm pretty consistent in not supporting rapists.

This isn't a grey area for me

I don't need to see their juvie records to make my ethical / moral choices.

My love of sport dies not trump my moral compass.

I have no need for mental gymnastics to make my choices.

[dovecanyoncat]

So, ACF2, you're content to virtue signal until someone else executes as an authentic moral agent. Cool
That's somewhere solidly in between abject moral cowardice and gelded gutless pedantic fence-sitting.

[CardiacCats97]

LOL at AzCatFan2 still hiding behind the legal intracacies of juvenile court.

You know he’s a convicted rapist. But the court in which that conviction happened in apparently allows you to memory-hole that fact and pretend it didn’t happen? Truly happy for you my man.

Don't like the fact juvie records are sealed and records expunged at adulthood? Change the law. Meanwhile, there are other players with juvie records you are going to be cheering for in the future. I guess if the records remained sealed and you never know you can stay blissfully unaware?

This is the same as asking me if I’m ok with being blissfully unaware of the past records of everyone I come into contact with for the rest of my life because I am not comfortable being around the one person I met who I know is a rapist. If I can’t know what the juvenile record is of everyone who has or will in the future play for Arizona I’m supposed to be ok with JDL putting on a Wildcat uniform? That’s your argument that’s supposed to somehow make me see the light and root for this kid? Fucking hilarious. Your argument is dumb as fuck.

[dovecanyoncat]

LOL at AzCatFan2 still hiding behind the legal intracacies of juvenile court.

You know he’s a convicted rapist. But the court in which that conviction happened in apparently allows you to memory-hole that fact and pretend it didn’t happen? Truly happy for you my man.

Don't like the fact juvie records are sealed and records expunged at adulthood? Change the law. Meanwhile, there are other players with juvie records you are going to be cheering for in the future. I guess if the records remained sealed and you never know you can stay blissfully unaware?

This is the same as asking me if I’m ok with being blissfully unaware of the past records of everyone I come into contact with for the rest of my life because I am not comfortable being around the one person I met who I know is a rapist. If I can’t know what the juvenile record is of everyone who has or will in the future play for Arizona I’m supposed to be ok with JDL putting on a Wildcat uniform? That’s your argument that’s supposed to somehow make me see the light and root for this kid? Fucking hilarious. Your argument is dumb as fuck.

Don't you know that being unaware of everything about a rapist means you have to categorically accept or reject everything about non-rapists! Hell! Everybody knows that!

[AzCatFan2]

I ask again, what difference does it make if the convicted rapist is a QB, LB, Center for the basketball team, or 3rd baseman on the baseball team?

Zero, nada, zilch.

I'm pretty consistent in not supporting rapists.

This isn't a grey area for me

I don't need to see their juvie records to make my ethical / moral choices.

My love of sport dies not trump my moral compass.

I have no need for mental gymnastics to make my choices.

You can personally do whatever you wish. Never said you can't. And if you want JDL off campus so much, gather the troops, set up protests, and make him feel persona-non-grata in Tucson.

But the University shouldn't act upon juvenile records. It's an awful precedent to set. You love of sports may not trump your moral compass, but you have zero idea about the juvenile records of the players, in Arizona uniforms, that you are cheering for. The point what difference does it make about what position the student plays points to the fact for other kids in uniform, their records are sealed, and likely will remain sealed in perpetuity. You will never have the chance to be outraged because you will be blissfully unaware of their juvie record.

So unless you want to advocate the University works to unseal every student athlete's juvenile record so you have the ability to sleep at night knowing your don't have to do the mental gymnastics of possibly cheering for a rapist, you are doing mental gymnastics. You are in the dark about the juvie records of 99.9% of the athletes in Arizona uniforms, and only came to know about JDL because of the civil lawsuit settlement.

So yes, if want to remain sure that you aren't cheering for rapists, you have to see the juvie record of every athlete on the field. JDL had the same juvie record last year when you cheered for him. Can you guarantee he was the only one in an Arizona uniform with a similar record?

[Merkin]

Don't like the fact juvie records are sealed and records expunged at adulthood?

Jesus dude, juvenile records are not expunged if there is a conviction. Quit making shit up.

Plenty of testimony under oath in the civil trial. Why is that not good enough for you?

Aren't you the same poster who said the same argument over and over in the Conference Realignment thread?

[AzCatFan2]

Don't like the fact juvie records are sealed and records expunged at adulthood?

Jesus dude, juvenile records are not expunged if there is a conviction. Quit making shit up.

Plenty of testimony under oath in the civil trial. Why is that not good enough for you?

Aren't you the same poster who said the same argument over and over in the Conference Realignment thread?

Every state has its own laws. Some juvie records are expunged. Some require a formal request. But in all states, juvie records do not follow a person into adulthood, and can only be unsealed in certain cases. Here's a link to Hawaii's juvenile record law. Note, juvie offenses do not follow a person into adulthood, "No. Only adult criminal history information is included, unless the juvenile case was transferred to the adult court." https://ag.hawaii.gov/hcjdc/criminal-hi ... 954%2D8190.

And what testimony under oath in the civil trial? From what I understand, a settlement was reached before a trial ever started. Do you have any transcripts from the trial? JDL is an adult now, and civil trials don't have the same orders to seal records as criminal, unless a judge specifically orders it.

[Alieberman]

You can personally do whatever you wish. Never said you can't. And if you want JDL off campus so much, gather the troops, set up protests, and make him feel persona-non-grata in Tucson.

But the University shouldn't act upon juvenile records. It's an awful precedent to set. You love of sports may not trump your moral compass, but you have zero idea about the juvenile records of the players, in Arizona uniforms, that you are cheering for. The point what difference does it make about what position the student plays points to the fact for other kids in uniform, their records are sealed, and likely will remain sealed in perpetuity. You will never have the chance to be outraged because you will be blissfully unaware of their juvie record.

So unless you want to advocate the University works to unseal every student athlete's juvenile record so you have the ability to sleep at night knowing your don't have to do the mental gymnastics of possibly cheering for a rapist, you are doing mental gymnastics. You are in the dark about the juvie records of 99.9% of the athletes in Arizona uniforms, and only came to know about JDL because of the civil lawsuit settlement.

So yes, if want to remain sure that you aren't cheering for rapists, you have to see the juvie record of every athlete on the field. JDL had the same juvie record last year when you cheered for him. Can you guarantee he was the only one in an Arizona uniform with a similar record?

You really make my brain hurt.

I do follow lots of sports... and I'm sure I have or do root for some people that unbeknownst to me are awful human beings.

But I do have this amazing superpower to stop rooting for them once I find out they are a piece of shit.

And I can do this without worrying that there might be someone else who I am rooting for that also might be a piece a shit... that I just don't know about yet.

[CardiacCats97]

If I was in the bathroom of a restaurant and I saw the chef breeze past the sink without washing his hands after dropping a horrendously massive diarrhea dump and I told that to AzCatFan2 as a warning to not eat there, he’d counter with the man’s right to privacy in the bathroom and how I don’t know for a fact that everyone who touches my food at any restaurant in the world washes up after shitting, so therefore I better head right back there and have a smile on my face as I eat an e-coli flavored burrito.

[dovecanyoncat]

If I was in the bathroom of a restaurant and I saw the chef breeze past the sink without washing his hands after dropping a horrendously massive diarrhea dump and I told that to AzCatFan2 as a warning to not eat there, he’d counter with the man’s right to privacy in the bathroom and how I don’t know for a fact that everyone who touches my food at any restaurant in the world washes up after shitting, so therefore I better head right back there and have a smile on my face as I eat an e-coli flavored burrito.

But first! let's break it down 157 times in mind-numbing repetition (trying to prove our insanity) before we ignore all the gainsayers and go for #158.

[AzCatFan2]

You can personally do whatever you wish. Never said you can't. And if you want JDL off campus so much, gather the troops, set up protests, and make him feel persona-non-grata in Tucson.

But the University shouldn't act upon juvenile records. It's an awful precedent to set. You love of sports may not trump your moral compass, but you have zero idea about the juvenile records of the players, in Arizona uniforms, that you are cheering for. The point what difference does it make about what position the student plays points to the fact for other kids in uniform, their records are sealed, and likely will remain sealed in perpetuity. You will never have the chance to be outraged because you will be blissfully unaware of their juvie record.

So unless you want to advocate the University works to unseal every student athlete's juvenile record so you have the ability to sleep at night knowing your don't have to do the mental gymnastics of possibly cheering for a rapist, you are doing mental gymnastics. You are in the dark about the juvie records of 99.9% of the athletes in Arizona uniforms, and only came to know about JDL because of the civil lawsuit settlement.

So yes, if want to remain sure that you aren't cheering for rapists, you have to see the juvie record of every athlete on the field. JDL had the same juvie record last year when you cheered for him. Can you guarantee he was the only one in an Arizona uniform with a similar record?

You really make my brain hurt.

I do follow lots of sports... and I'm sure I have or do root for some people that unbeknownst to me are awful human beings.

But I do have this amazing superpower to stop rooting for them once I find out they are a piece of shit.

And I can do this without worrying that there might be someone else who I am rooting for that also might be a piece a shit... that I just don't know about yet.

So, cheering for a rapist is perfectly acceptable as long as you are blissfully unaware and don't know he's a rapist?

[dovecanyoncat]

You can personally do whatever you wish. Never said you can't. And if you want JDL off campus so much, gather the troops, set up protests, and make him feel persona-non-grata in Tucson.

But the University shouldn't act upon juvenile records. It's an awful precedent to set. You love of sports may not trump your moral compass, but you have zero idea about the juvenile records of the players, in Arizona uniforms, that you are cheering for. The point what difference does it make about what position the student plays points to the fact for other kids in uniform, their records are sealed, and likely will remain sealed in perpetuity. You will never have the chance to be outraged because you will be blissfully unaware of their juvie record.

So unless you want to advocate the University works to unseal every student athlete's juvenile record so you have the ability to sleep at night knowing your don't have to do the mental gymnastics of possibly cheering for a rapist, you are doing mental gymnastics. You are in the dark about the juvie records of 99.9% of the athletes in Arizona uniforms, and only came to know about JDL because of the civil lawsuit settlement.

So yes, if want to remain sure that you aren't cheering for rapists, you have to see the juvie record of every athlete on the field. JDL had the same juvie record last year when you cheered for him. Can you guarantee he was the only one in an Arizona uniform with a similar record?

You really make my brain hurt.

I do follow lots of sports... and I'm sure I have or do root for some people that unbeknownst to me are awful human beings.

But I do have this amazing superpower to stop rooting for them once I find out they are a piece of shit.

And I can do this without worrying that there might be someone else who I am rooting for that also might be a piece a shit... that I just don't know about yet.

So, cheering for a rapist is perfectly acceptable as long as you are blissfully unaware and don't know he's a rapist?

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU!

[CardiacCats97]

You can personally do whatever you wish. Never said you can't. And if you want JDL off campus so much, gather the troops, set up protests, and make him feel persona-non-grata in Tucson.

But the University shouldn't act upon juvenile records. It's an awful precedent to set. You love of sports may not trump your moral compass, but you have zero idea about the juvenile records of the players, in Arizona uniforms, that you are cheering for. The point what difference does it make about what position the student plays points to the fact for other kids in uniform, their records are sealed, and likely will remain sealed in perpetuity. You will never have the chance to be outraged because you will be blissfully unaware of their juvie record.

So unless you want to advocate the University works to unseal every student athlete's juvenile record so you have the ability to sleep at night knowing your don't have to do the mental gymnastics of possibly cheering for a rapist, you are doing mental gymnastics. You are in the dark about the juvie records of 99.9% of the athletes in Arizona uniforms, and only came to know about JDL because of the civil lawsuit settlement.

So yes, if want to remain sure that you aren't cheering for rapists, you have to see the juvie record of every athlete on the field. JDL had the same juvie record last year when you cheered for him. Can you guarantee he was the only one in an Arizona uniform with a similar record?

You really make my brain hurt.

I do follow lots of sports... and I'm sure I have or do root for some people that unbeknownst to me are awful human beings.

But I do have this amazing superpower to stop rooting for them once I find out they are a piece of shit.

And I can do this without worrying that there might be someone else who I am rooting for that also might be a piece a shit... that I just don't know about yet.

So, cheering for a rapist is perfectly acceptable as long as you are blissfully unaware and don't know he's a rapist?

You should take it a step further and ask us if cheering for a FUTURE rapist is acceptable as long as we are blissfully unaware that he’ll be convicted long after his playing days are over of rape and we just don’t know it yet. You know, since you’re into arguing total nonsense to make no point whatsoever.

[dovecanyoncat]

Do you grasp even your very own words! Are you high! Are you in the middle of a brain stem stroke! Jesus Fucking Christ!

[AzCatFan2]

You can personally do whatever you wish. Never said you can't. And if you want JDL off campus so much, gather the troops, set up protests, and make him feel persona-non-grata in Tucson.

But the University shouldn't act upon juvenile records. It's an awful precedent to set. You love of sports may not trump your moral compass, but you have zero idea about the juvenile records of the players, in Arizona uniforms, that you are cheering for. The point what difference does it make about what position the student plays points to the fact for other kids in uniform, their records are sealed, and likely will remain sealed in perpetuity. You will never have the chance to be outraged because you will be blissfully unaware of their juvie record.

So unless you want to advocate the University works to unseal every student athlete's juvenile record so you have the ability to sleep at night knowing your don't have to do the mental gymnastics of possibly cheering for a rapist, you are doing mental gymnastics. You are in the dark about the juvie records of 99.9% of the athletes in Arizona uniforms, and only came to know about JDL because of the civil lawsuit settlement.

So yes, if want to remain sure that you aren't cheering for rapists, you have to see the juvie record of every athlete on the field. JDL had the same juvie record last year when you cheered for him. Can you guarantee he was the only one in an Arizona uniform with a similar record?

You really make my brain hurt.

I do follow lots of sports... and I'm sure I have or do root for some people that unbeknownst to me are awful human beings.

But I do have this amazing superpower to stop rooting for them once I find out they are a piece of shit.

And I can do this without worrying that there might be someone else who I am rooting for that also might be a piece a shit... that I just don't know about yet.

So, cheering for a rapist is perfectly acceptable as long as you are blissfully unaware and don't know he's a rapist?

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU!

I'm attempting to follow your train of logic to its conclusion. And the moral conundrum you must be having knowing that students in Arizona uniforms might be rapists, but because their records of juvie, and sealed, there is no way of knowing. I assume you rooted for JDL last year. His juvie record last year was the exactly the same as it is now.

And the school kids JDL off the team for his juvie record, why do other athletes get to enjoy the fact their juvie records are sealed, and unless they too face a civil suit, their records will remain unknown? If the school kicks JDL off for his juvie record, shouldn't they attempt to be consistent and kick all kids with sexual assault juvie records off the team? Of, is it ok to remain blissfully unaware?

[Alieberman]

Guys-

Is it me?

[CardiacCats97]

I wish I was still blissfully unaware that Jayden DeLaura being outed as a rapist would give AzCatFan2 the inspiration to troll so relentlessly.

[Merkin]

Guys-

Is it me?

I'm not supporting a rapist either, and will not watch any UA FB with him playing.

Watching the Hawaii TV news story on this case is quite troubling.

https://www.hawaiinewsnow.com/2023/05/0 ... ault-case/

[AzCatFan2]

What JDL did is awful, and for the record, I'm not defending him or his actions. I'm defending the schools' decision to keep JDL and Latu on the Arizona and Wisconsin rosters respectfully.

Fact is, like it or not, if you rooted for Arizona football last year, you cheered for a rapist. JDL's juvenile criminal record remains the same today as when he stepped on campus last year. The only thing that has changed is our knowledge because of the civil suit settlement. Even if JDL never plays another down at Arizona, there's still a chance you could be rooting for a rapist. We have no idea what other juvie records our athletes have. Neither does the school, unless the player informed them, and neither us, nor the school have the right to unseal a kid's juvie record.

I'm for school policies that are consistent and fair. Kick one kid off because of a juvenile record, why should other kids be spared because their records are sealed and cases don't become public knowledge? Is that really fair? Along with this, with the criminal records sealed, and the case plead out, we will never get to hear the boys' side of the story. Again, not defending what JDL and Latu did, and have no reason not to believe the victim's story, but I also acknowledge I don't know the full story. And people that knew a lot more about what happened than I do, the prosecutor and judge in the case, felt secure in charging the two as juveniles, even though the case could have legally been transferred to an adult court. In addition, the boys didn't serve any time in detention. This has to account for something in my opinion.

I'd be fine if the people of the University of Arizona run JDL out of town. Be fine if Fisch decides never to play JDL another down too. But kick one kid off a team because his juvie record became public knowledge is a bad precedent to set, regardless of the crime he plead to.

[dovecanyoncat]

You can personally do whatever you wish. Never said you can't. And if you want JDL off campus so much, gather the troops, set up protests, and make him feel persona-non-grata in Tucson.

But the University shouldn't act upon juvenile records. It's an awful precedent to set. You love of sports may not trump your moral compass, but you have zero idea about the juvenile records of the players, in Arizona uniforms, that you are cheering for. The point what difference does it make about what position the student plays points to the fact for other kids in uniform, their records are sealed, and likely will remain sealed in perpetuity. You will never have the chance to be outraged because you will be blissfully unaware of their juvie record.

So unless you want to advocate the University works to unseal every student athlete's juvenile record so you have the ability to sleep at night knowing your don't have to do the mental gymnastics of possibly cheering for a rapist, you are doing mental gymnastics. You are in the dark about the juvie records of 99.9% of the athletes in Arizona uniforms, and only came to know about JDL because of the civil lawsuit settlement.

So yes, if want to remain sure that you aren't cheering for rapists, you have to see the juvie record of every athlete on the field. JDL had the same juvie record last year when you cheered for him. Can you guarantee he was the only one in an Arizona uniform with a similar record?

You really make my brain hurt.

I do follow lots of sports... and I'm sure I have or do root for some people that unbeknownst to me are awful human beings.

But I do have this amazing superpower to stop rooting for them once I find out they are a piece of shit.

And I can do this without worrying that there might be someone else who I am rooting for that also might be a piece a shit... that I just don't know about yet.

So, cheering for a rapist is perfectly acceptable as long as you are blissfully unaware and don't know he's a rapist?

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU!

His juvie record last year was the exactly the same as it is now.

The known and unknown is certainly not the same now. That is the only basis of judgement in the matter. By that I mean my judgement and any judgement as an executor of personal moral estate, not as an amateur re-adjudicator operating in the non-sensical suspension of what-is-known in some vague noumenal dimension of reality. You have backed yourself into a corner from which you have no choice but to argue that something exists and simultaneously does not exist. If you are going to have a good faith discussion with adults who are trying very hard to appreciate your position you have to give more respect to the English language. You have to know what object of probity matters most in moral agency.

If the school kicks JDL off for his juvie record, shouldn't they attempt to be consistent and kick all kids with sexual assault juvie records off the team? Of, is it ok to remain blissfully unaware?

When anything becomes known by just and legal proceeding it is the responsibility of every moral agent to act upon that understanding. The absence of such particular understanding does not obviate moral reckoning or responsibility BUT NEITHER does it inculpate moral agency in any hypothecated consequence. You are hypothecating a consequence that no one is responsible for acting on. You're doing this out of stubborn ego and it makes you look like a blithering imbecile.

[dovecanyoncat]

Guys-

Is it me?

If it is, I'm guilty as well.

[EastCoastCat]

Dove - it was my understanding there would be no math…

[CardiacCats97]

Fact is, like it or not, if you rooted for Arizona football last year, you cheered for a rapist.

The AD and coaches knew that last Fall. The fans and community did not.

Frankly, the university should have let him play out the season, finish up his second semester, and then asked him not to return. The fact that they didn’t is beyond disappointing to me. And nothing you’ve said or will say is going to make me feel better about it, so when you quote this and again write a five paragraph essay, let’s just agree it’s because you really enjoy reading your own posts.

[Merkin]

The AD and coaches knew that last Fall. The fans and community did not.

I imagine you are correct.

Was just reading earlier today that the civil court case was filed before JDL even transferred from WSU to UA. Unlike Azcatfan2, I try to be informed before I comment here.

[AzCatFan2]

You really make my brain hurt.

I do follow lots of sports... and I'm sure I have or do root for some people that unbeknownst to me are awful human beings.

But I do have this amazing superpower to stop rooting for them once I find out they are a piece of shit.

And I can do this without worrying that there might be someone else who I am rooting for that also might be a piece a shit... that I just don't know about yet.

So, cheering for a rapist is perfectly acceptable as long as you are blissfully unaware and don't know he's a rapist?

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU!

His juvie record last year was the exactly the same as it is now.

The known and unknown is certainly not the same now. That is the only basis of judgement in the matter. By that I mean my judgement and any judgement as an executor of personal moral estate, not as an amateur re-adjudicator operating in the non-sensical suspension of what-is-known in some vague noumenal dimension of reality. You have backed yourself into a corner from which you have no choice but to argue that something exists and simultaneously does not exist. If you are going to have a good faith discussion with adults who are trying very hard to appreciate your position you have to give more respect to the English language. You have to know what object of probity matters most in moral agency.

If the school kicks JDL off for his juvie record, shouldn't they attempt to be consistent and kick all kids with sexual assault juvie records off the team? Of, is it ok to remain blissfully unaware?

When anything becomes known by just and legal proceeding it is the responsibility of every moral agent to act upon that understanding. The absence of such particular understanding does not obviate moral reckoning or responsibility BUT NEITHER does it inculpate moral agency in any hypothecated consequence. You are hypothecating a consequence that no one is responsible for acting on. You're doing this out of stubborn ego and it makes you look like a blithering imbecile.

I would suggest it's not the only judgement. The boys were judged. Guilty of a juvenile felony, with the punishment being no jail time, but a written apology letter. That's it from the criminal system. Why such minimal punishment? We can only speculate.

Perhaps the prosecutor and judge were local high school football fans and didn't want to punish the local heroes. Possible. But also possible that the prosecutor saw holes in the victim's story and thought putting her on the stand to get an adult conviction was a bad idea, with the likely outcome being acquittal. And that's why the plea was offered.

If you want to talk about moral agency, then the truth is what is most important. And with closed, juvenile cases, it isn't often possible to know the full truth. Yes, we know Latu and JDL did something wrong that JDL apologized for, but the prosecutor and judge in the case thought nothing more than an apology letter was appropriate punishment. Maybe they were wrong and the kids deserved more? Maybe they were right and the University kicks a kid off the team for what?

[GlobalCat]

The questions have been answered multiple time - you are just too dimwitted to process it.

No they haven't. And certainly not to my satisfaction. The first question can't be answered, because the criminal files are sealed. The second one, someone suggested appointing a special master to look at all athletes currently on scholarship. Is that really a road we want to go on?

That's because you are clearly a dimwit. And too dimwitted to recognize it.

[dovecanyoncat]

So, cheering for a rapist is perfectly acceptable as long as you are blissfully unaware and don't know he's a rapist?

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU!

His juvie record last year was the exactly the same as it is now.

The known and unknown is certainly not the same now. That is the only basis of judgement in the matter. By that I mean my judgement and any judgement as an executor of personal moral estate, not as an amateur re-adjudicator operating in the non-sensical suspension of what-is-known in some vague noumenal dimension of reality. You have backed yourself into a corner from which you have no choice but to argue that something exists and simultaneously does not exist. If you are going to have a good faith discussion with adults who are trying very hard to appreciate your position you have to give more respect to the English language. You have to know what object of probity matters most in moral agency.

If the school kicks JDL off for his juvie record, shouldn't they attempt to be consistent and kick all kids with sexual assault juvie records off the team? Of, is it ok to remain blissfully unaware?

When anything becomes known by just and legal proceeding it is the responsibility of every moral agent to act upon that understanding. The absence of such particular understanding does not obviate moral reckoning or responsibility BUT NEITHER does it inculpate moral agency in any hypothecated consequence. You are hypothecating a consequence that no one is responsible for acting on. You're doing this out of stubborn ego and it makes you look like a blithering imbecile.

I would suggest it's not the only judgement.

But you have said time and time again that the court judgement obtains and brings stasis to subsequent moral inquiry. Dude, you can't keep a straight thought in your head.

The boys were judged. Guilty of a juvenile felony, with the punishment being no jail time, but a written apology letter. That's it from the criminal system.

This criminal judgement is the only one that guides you BUT YOU JUST SAID IT'S NOT THE ONLY JUDGEMENT. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORDS COMING OUT OF MY MOUTH?

Perhaps the prosecutor and judge were local high school football fans and didn't want to punish the local heroes. Possible. But also possible that the prosecutor saw holes in the victim's story and thought putting her on the stand to get an adult conviction was a bad idea, with the likely outcome being acquittal. And that's why the plea was offered.

To quote a wise man: "Just shut up, man."

If you want to talk about moral agency, then the truth is what is most important. And with closed, juvenile cases, it isn't often possible to know the full truth.

Then be the moral agent you challenge us to be. Sue for more disclosure. Petition the court. Hell, your own wife might be a serial killer. What do you plan to do about that?

Yes, we know Latu and JDL did something wrong that JDL apologized for, but the prosecutor and judge in the case thought nothing more than an apology letter was appropriate punishment.

Aaaaaand we're back. Stop contradicting yourself. Helpful hint: listen to your own shit before turning it into shit.

[cerec_cat]

Fifita!

[AzCatFan2]

WHAT THE FUCK IS WRONG WITH YOU!

His juvie record last year was the exactly the same as it is now.

The known and unknown is certainly not the same now. That is the only basis of judgement in the matter. By that I mean my judgement and any judgement as an executor of personal moral estate, not as an amateur re-adjudicator operating in the non-sensical suspension of what-is-known in some vague noumenal dimension of reality. You have backed yourself into a corner from which you have no choice but to argue that something exists and simultaneously does not exist. If you are going to have a good faith discussion with adults who are trying very hard to appreciate your position you have to give more respect to the English language. You have to know what object of probity matters most in moral agency.

If the school kicks JDL off for his juvie record, shouldn't they attempt to be consistent and kick all kids with sexual assault juvie records off the team? Of, is it ok to remain blissfully unaware?

When anything becomes known by just and legal proceeding it is the responsibility of every moral agent to act upon that understanding. The absence of such particular understanding does not obviate moral reckoning or responsibility BUT NEITHER does it inculpate moral agency in any hypothecated consequence. You are hypothecating a consequence that no one is responsible for acting on. You're doing this out of stubborn ego and it makes you look like a blithering imbecile.

I would suggest it's not the only judgement.

But you have said time and time again that the court judgement obtains and brings stasis to subsequent moral inquiry. Dude, you can't keep a straight thought in your head.

The boys were judged. Guilty of a juvenile felony, with the punishment being no jail time, but a written apology letter. That's it from the criminal system.

This criminal judgement is the only one that guides you BUT YOU JUST SAID IT'S NOT THE ONLY JUDGEMENT. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORDS COMING OUT OF MY MOUTH?

Perhaps the prosecutor and judge were local high school football fans and didn't want to punish the local heroes. Possible. But also possible that the prosecutor saw holes in the victim's story and thought putting her on the stand to get an adult conviction was a bad idea, with the likely outcome being acquittal. And that's why the plea was offered.

To quote a wise man: "Just shut up, man."

If you want to talk about moral agency, then the truth is what is most important. And with closed, juvenile cases, it isn't often possible to know the full truth.

Then be the moral agent you challenge us to be. Sue for more disclosure. Petition the court. Hell, your own wife might be a serial killer. What do you plan to do about that?

Yes, we know Latu and JDL did something wrong that JDL apologized for, but the prosecutor and judge in the case thought nothing more than an apology letter was appropriate punishment.

Aaaaaand we're back. Stop contradicting yourself. Helpful hint: listen to your own shit before turning it into shit.

There can be more than one moral judgement and you can use one to guide you. The two are not mutually exclusive. I believe morality begins and ends with the truth. And truth is, with juvenile cases, the truth is usually sealed.

If you want to use the simplistic judgement that JDL plead guilty to sexual assault and therefor should be kicked off the team, that's your prerogative. But that doesn't get too the full story. Why were they not charged as adults? Why no jail time? Why didn't the victim or her family contact Wisconsin or Arizona?

Questions we don't know, and likely will never know the answers too. Because of that, institutions like Arizona should not pass judgment and punish further. Especially when they could be dealing with students with a worse juvenile history that may never be exposed.

If you want to pass a personal moral judgment and say Latu and JDL are pieces of shit, be my guest. Not only will I not try and argue against it, I'd agree with you.

[George Costanza]

If I was in the bathroom of a restaurant and I saw the chef breeze past the sink without washing his hands after dropping a horrendously massive diarrhea dump and I told that to AzCatFan2 as a warning to not eat there, he’d counter with the man’s right to privacy in the bathroom and how I don’t know for a fact that everyone who touches my food at any restaurant in the world washes up after shitting, so therefore I better head right back there and have a smile on my face as I eat an e-coli flavored burrito.

[dovecanyoncat]

There can be more than one moral judgement and you can use one to guide you. The two are not mutually exclusive. I believe morality begins and ends with the truth. And truth is, with juvenile cases, the truth is usually sealed.

Kitten, you are defining the mode that truth exists within. You are saying it is the judicial mode. Then you are saying the moral mode that executes in truth is multi-various. You are without basis. You have no logical anchor. You're a mess.

If you want to use the simplistic judgement that JDL plead guilty to sexual assault and therefor should be kicked off the team, that's your prerogative.

It's damn white of you to grant me my moral authority to condemn rapists. You're a fucking champ.

Why were they not charged as adults? Why no jail time? Why didn't the victim or her family contact Wisconsin or Arizona?

That's your problem Bubba. Chew your own fucking food. I'm not your moral arbiter. I'm in charge of me, not you.

Questions we don't know, and likely will never know the answers too.

Questions posed to no purpose, hypothecated to no inculpated agent ..... are the stuff of moral cowards, geldings in the adult world of agency: culls. You're a fucking cull.

Because of that, institutions like Arizona should not pass judgment and punish further. Especially when they could be dealing with students with a worse juvenile history that may never be exposed.

So UofA should cull their agency because they should actually be doing much more in furtherance of that agency. You can't keep a straight thought in your head. I have met cocker spaniels with more cognitive continuity that you have.

If you want to pass a personal moral judgment and say Latu and JDL are pieces of shit, be my guest. Not only will I not try and argue against it, I'd agree with you.

And then you'd wait in stasis for someone else to take the charge or to take the block. In the world of moral agency you aren't even a permanent bench player; you're not even on the team.

Cull.

[Fendicent4ever]

Just some thoughts.

Based on everything that I know about the case, I want him gone. The documents made public are so heinous it forced me to stop reading.

The one thing that I keep wondering is what the decisionmakers know that we aren't privy to. I'm not a lawyer, I don't know how it works. Maybe its as simple as they think Jayden can lead the cats to the sweet nectar of the Magicjack.com Bowl. Maybe theres more to it? I can't help but wonder- is there more to it to make having to disable comments on all Arizona Athletics social media for the foreseeable future worth it? Then again, I have zero faith in the way Bobbins and Dave do business.

The crime in question is particularly despicable, which for me renders hypotheticals about juvie records that a second basemen maybe got an MIP or a swimmer broke a window completely irrellevent. That said, when I was an undergrad a 3 year starter was accused of sexual assault. Admittedly its not apples to apples and I don't remember the details. Stoops stood tall and immediately booted him off the team. When he was found not guilty there was no reinstated eligibility, and to this day if you google him its articles about the allegations (you have to dig to confirm that his innocence was in fact concluded by a jury). It effectively ruined his athletic career, and in many ways his life was set back in ways I can't even imagine. I'm not even sure he graduated.

Then again, Its been reported that there are texts from Jayden... it all makes me so sick.

[AZCatGirl]

It's the realignment thread pt. 2, except the case AzCatFan2 is arguing has gone from moronic to disgusting.

[Carcassdragger]

I'm tired of so many on here attacking the moral character of those who happen to disagree with themselves. It's not necessary.

Texts or no texts, which we'll never see, I'm thinking the prosecutor didn't think the case was that strong and settled with JDL. On the other side, JDL and his counsel may have thought the case might well have resulted in a sentence by a jury influenced by the emotion of such a heinous accusation. The reasons for settling a civil case were probably more complicated. What happened in that stairwell may very well have been ugly with some culpability by all parties, but who knows. Point is, those who do know better than any of us, chose to settle and move on.

[dovecanyoncat]

I'm tired of so many on here attacking the moral character of those who happen to disagree with themselves. It's not necessary.

Texts or no texts, which we'll never see, I'm thinking the prosecutor didn't think the case was that strong and settled with JDL and his counsel because the accused may have thought the case might well have resulted in a sentence by a jury influenced by the emotion of such a heinous accusation. What happened in that stairwell may very well have been ugly with some culpability by all parties, but who knows. Point is, those who do know better than any of us, chose to settle and move on.

I think it is a safe bet to presume human frailty in all matters judicative and executive. Aren't we are all flawed individuals? And further, aren't we all composite individuals whose fractions assail and dilute our better whole? In this moment I am comforted that none of us takes this lightly. It matters. It hurts because it counts. Because we judge and condemn we ourselves feel pain inseparable from the act condemned. How else do we learn?