Conference Realignment

[PHXCATS]

Unless asu is getting a 1/5th share they are not going to be invited to the Big Ten anytime soon

[PHXCATS]

[wyo-cat]

SEC is surprisingly high.

[84Cat]

I would love to see the numbers if you break out the PAC12 Network as it's own category

[azcat49]

Conference benefits this year by having an exceptionally strong conference

[84Cat]

Lol, says ASU isn't really interested in moving and that the AD is horrible at his job. He thinks UA may move without them

[AZCatGirl]

Moving without ASU would be the dream scenario, but I can't see ABOR allowing it.

[Merkin]

Can't imagine UA leaving without ASU even if the ABOR allowed it. When was the last time they weren't in the same conference? Back when ASU was Arizona State Teachers College at Tempe?

You would have to schedule them OOC, which would take another marquis matchup off the table. Then the alternating years you would have to play both NAU and ASU.

[KillerKlown]

It won't happen but if it did it would be ASU's fault.

[azgreg]

Moving without ASU would be the dream scenario, but I can't see ABOR allowing it.

I have yet to see where they have a say.

[RondaeShimmy]

[AzCatFan2]

The only way I see ABOR allowing a split of ASu and Arizona is if both schools got a good deal in separate conferences. And both schools agree to split. Not likely to happen.

But ASu not AAU (congratulations to ASu, and this is a good thing for the state), I can see USC and many B1G schools preferring the Arizona schools over UW and Oregon. The two AZ schools aren't worth $60 million a year, but neither are Oregon and UW. But the Arizona schools offer a lot more alumni living here from B1G schools. And the state of Arizona offers a lot more prep talent for USC to pluck than Oregon.

I still believe the B1G doesn't want to take any more PAC schools and effectively kill the conference. They will take leftovers at a discount if the conference does dissolve and schools like Oregon and UW need a home. If Colorado goes BIG12, and the other 4-corner schools follow, the PAC is down to 6, and dissolves. If Colorado goes BIG12 alone, and we don't follow, that creates a huge mess.

[TheCatInTheHat]

I would love to see the numbers if you break out the PAC12 Network as it's own category

Yeah...listing P12N as an equivalent channel to ESPN under "cable" is completely misleading, especially since it's so often unavailable outside the conference footprint and often requires paying a premium over basic cable. Since the individual conference contracts are pretty specific to a relatively small group of channels or streaming outlets, it shouldn't be that hard to have a breakdown showing some listing, like "number of nation-wide viewers who can currently access" for each distribution method. And I'll note that, free or not, broadcast TV isn't necessarily the ultimate; considering what's available, some people just stream and don't bother with digital antennas. You're not going to get hyper-accurate data anywhere, but you can get a better idea than outdated assumptions that one type of delivery system is always better than another type.

[PHXCATS]

I would love to see the numbers if you break out the PAC12 Network as it's own category

Yeah...listing P12N as an equivalent channel to ESPN under "cable" is completely misleading, especially since it's so often unavailable outside the conference footprint and often requires paying a premium over basic cable. Since the individual conference contracts are pretty specific to a relatively small group of channels or streaming outlets, it shouldn't be that hard to have a breakdown showing some listing, like "number of nation-wide viewers who can currently access" for each distribution method. And I'll note that, free or not, broadcast TV isn't necessarily the ultimate; considering what's available, some people just stream and don't bother with digital antennas. You're not going to get hyper-accurate data anywhere, but you can get a better idea than outdated assumptions that one type of delivery system is always better than another type.

Why? SEC and ACC networks are on the sports package here in Phoenix not the generic first bundle you get

Also it is a national guy with this. There is nothing misleading

[RondaeShimmy]

Gonzaga and uconn to the big 12 would be great basketball conference.

But I'd be less enthusiastic to move there

[IndianaZonaFan]

ACC and Pac-12 should dissolve. Divide any wanted schools to B1G, Big12, and SEC, and let the rest form their own conference(s) (or join smaller ones)

SEC: Miami, FSU, Ga Tech, Clemson, (maybe the VA schools?)

B1G: UW, Oregon, UNC, NC State, Duke, Cal, Stanford

Big12: Colorado, Arizona, ASU, UConn, Gonzaga, SDSU

Just a thought.

[84Cat]

[PHXCATS]

ACC and Pac-12 should dissolve. Divide any wanted schools to B1G, Big12, and SEC, and let the rest form their own conference(s) (or join smaller ones)

SEC: Miami, FSU, Ga Tech, Clemson, (maybe the VA schools?)

B1G: UW, Oregon, UNC, NC State, Duke, Cal, Stanford

Big12: Colorado, Arizona, ASU, UConn, Gonzaga, SDSU

Just a thought.

Only will happen if the Big Ten gets way way way bigger without anyone coming in from the ACC and SEC

espn has total control over the SEC and ACC. They get ACC for cheap. Why would they let anyone leave?

[pc in NM]

Moving into the era of super-conferences should proceed with two 20 member conferences for footballl.

AND

Introduce the concept of “relegation” as in the Premier league. 2-3 worst performing teams in each super league get demoted, and best performing replacements (season records, specific-bowl winners, whatever) from second-level leagues get promoted.

Fuck your feelings! It’s a dog-eat-dog world!

[KillerKlown]

[Merkin]

If CU and UA leaves, along with UDub and Oregon, why does Scheer even think there will be a PAC? Only teams better off in a reformatted PAC would be OSU and WSU, and at least WSU is already preparing for losing PAC money.

[CardiacCats97]

I would guess the PAC would try to pull schools like SDSU, UNLV, Boise State & Colorado State to stay alive.

[wyo-cat]

SDSU needs to move now. After 7/1 they get a large buyout from MW.

[OSUCat]

If CU and UA leaves, along with UDub and Oregon, why does Scheer even think there will be a PAC? Only teams better off in a reformatted PAC would be OSU and WSU, and at least WSU is already preparing for losing PAC money.

PAC-12 Commish going to give up his salary? OSU and WSU rather go to the WAC than try to pull WAC teams into the PAC-12? I would be surprised if it ever fully disbanded, maybe rebrand, but not disbanded.

[Merkin]

[BBQ wildcat]

I hope this is true.

[AzCatFan2]

If true, how you enjoyed watching the Cats play on ESPN+ last night. Lots of that in the BIG12's future. And for all sports.

[CardiacCats97]

I hope this is true.

You and me both brother.

If true, how you enjoyed watching the Cats play on ESPN+ last night. Lots of that in the BIG12's future. And for all sports.

I did. Thank you. Went to the ESPN app to see what channel we were playing on, clicked the link for the stream, and watched us get our asses kicked. Easy as pie.

[ChooChooCat]

If true, how you enjoyed watching the Cats play on ESPN+ last night. Lots of that in the BIG12's future. And for all sports.

30% of their deal will be ESPN+. Stark difference from the at least 80% the Pac12 has working with Apple.

You're an utter jackass to even compare these two. Your own loved ones should shun you in public.

[azcat49]

Sounds like we have hope but no reason to get excited like a kid at Christmas until the PAC announces what its TV deal is.

Just want some finality on this thing. Is this Swaim guy reliable?

[AzCatFan2]

ESPN+ currently requires a separate subscription for sports bars and restaurants. And ESPN+ will be showing MLB games early in the football season, and NHL games later. Not to mention SEC and ACC games will on + as well. Our games will rarely get shown on linear TV, and be buried on +.

We don't know what the PAC will be. And if it's Apple and worth a lot more, I'd take that over being buried on +.

[ChooChooCat]

Sounds like we have hope but no reason to get excited like a kid at Christmas until the PAC announces what its TV deal is.

Just want some finality on this thing. Is this Swaim guy reliable?

No, he is the opposite of reliable.

[ChooChooCat]

ESPN+ currently requires a separate subscription for sports bars and restaurants. And ESPN+ will be showing MLB games early in the football season, and NHL games later. Not to mention SEC and ACC games will on + as well. Our games will rarely get shown on linear TV, and be buried on +.

We don't know what the PAC will be. And if it's Apple and worth a lot more, I'd take that over being buried on +.

ESPN+ is still better for the Pac12 than Apple, because actual sports fans and bars subscribe to the service. No sports fans (outside of MLS fans) subscribe to Apple. Most of their subscriptions are T-Mobile customers who get a complementary 1 year subscription of the service.

We know ESPN isn't involved with the PAC anymore and neither is FOX or CBS or NBC or Amazon. Credible reporting has literally ruled them all out.

If you take more money from Apple to be on a streaming service little to zero sports fans subscribe to, then you are mentally handicapped and your caretaker should remove the keyboard from your reach for the world's sake. Also Apple isn't going to pay more than they have to to land the Pac-12, which means it'll be probably $20-25 million for every thing at best, which is considerably less per year than Big 12 with 70% FOX/ESPN and 30% ESPN+.

I can't fathom how you have a brain that comes to the conclusions you do. Normal human beings typically have the capability for rational thoughts. I'm surprised your brain even remembers to breathe at this point.

[azcat49]

Thanks Choo (on Swaim). Certainly appears that streaming is the future but that said, I go to ESPIN for sports and Apple TV for Ted Lasso shows.

In reality I don’t care what medium they are on, I will watch but the reason to go the the 12 is mainly stability for me and the PAC offers nothing in that area

[PHXCATS]

How have people not caught on to Swaim yet?

[AzCatFan2]

ESPN+ currently requires a separate subscription for sports bars and restaurants. And ESPN+ will be showing MLB games early in the football season, and NHL games later. Not to mention SEC and ACC games will on + as well. Our games will rarely get shown on linear TV, and be buried on +.

We don't know what the PAC will be. And if it's Apple and worth a lot more, I'd take that over being buried on +.

ESPN+ is still better for the Pac12 than Apple, because actual sports fans and bars subscribe to the service. No sports fans (outside of MLS fans) subscribe to Apple. Most of their subscriptions are T-Mobile customers who get a complementary 1 year subscription of the service.

We know ESPN isn't involved with the PAC anymore and neither is FOX or CBS or NBC or Amazon. Credible reporting has literally ruled them all out.

If you take more money from Apple to be on a streaming service little to zero sports fans subscribe to, then you are mentally handicapped and your caretaker should remove the keyboard from your reach for the world's sake. Also Apple isn't going to pay more than they have to to land the Pac-12, which means it'll be probably $20-25 million for every thing at best, which is considerably less per year than Big 12 with 70% FOX/ESPN and 30% ESPN+.

I can't fathom how you have a brain that comes to the conclusions you do. Normal human beings typically have the capability for rational thoughts. I'm surprised your brain even remembers to breathe at this point.

If you have an argument to make, make it. Stop belittling yourself with the childish insults towards me and my family. Only makes you seem little and childish.

ESPN might be known for sports, but who is going to watch Arizona at K State on ESPN+ besides both sets of Wildcats? Nobody. It's no different than appearing on Apple. And with Apple, maybe we can make more money?

[ChooChooCat]

ESPN+ currently requires a separate subscription for sports bars and restaurants. And ESPN+ will be showing MLB games early in the football season, and NHL games later. Not to mention SEC and ACC games will on + as well. Our games will rarely get shown on linear TV, and be buried on +.

We don't know what the PAC will be. And if it's Apple and worth a lot more, I'd take that over being buried on +.

ESPN+ is still better for the Pac12 than Apple, because actual sports fans and bars subscribe to the service. No sports fans (outside of MLS fans) subscribe to Apple. Most of their subscriptions are T-Mobile customers who get a complementary 1 year subscription of the service.

We know ESPN isn't involved with the PAC anymore and neither is FOX or CBS or NBC or Amazon. Credible reporting has literally ruled them all out.

If you take more money from Apple to be on a streaming service little to zero sports fans subscribe to, then you are mentally handicapped and your caretaker should remove the keyboard from your reach for the world's sake. Also Apple isn't going to pay more than they have to to land the Pac-12, which means it'll be probably $20-25 million for every thing at best, which is considerably less per year than Big 12 with 70% FOX/ESPN and 30% ESPN+.

I can't fathom how you have a brain that comes to the conclusions you do. Normal human beings typically have the capability for rational thoughts. I'm surprised your brain even remembers to breathe at this point.

If you have an argument to make, make it. Stop belittling yourself with the childish insults towards me and my family. Only makes you seem little and childish.

ESPN might be known for sports, but who is going to watch Arizona at K State on ESPN+ besides both sets of Wildcats? Nobody. It's no different than appearing on Apple. And with Apple, maybe we can make more money?

I made my argument, numerous times. You have never countered it with anything resembling a rational thought, you merely move the goal posts and expect everybody else to shift with you. We're all better off with you not even commenting on the topic from this point on. I don't feel like I need to treat you as an equal. You're nothing more than a troll. Your AZ vs KSU example is just another moving of the goalposts bullshit. That matchup as of today is not a Tier 3 game. Both teams would be ranked. ESPN or FOX would carry that game 100 times out of 100. For the record though more people would watch the theoretical AZ/KSU matchup on ESPN+ than they would AZ/Oregon matchup on AppleTV and it wouldn't even be close.

ESPN+ has 25 million subscribers. AppleTV also has 25 million subscribers. Every ESPN+ subscriber is a sports fan. I'm not even sure 1/8 of AppleTV subscribers are sports fans.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/113 ... ribers-us/
https://frontofficesports.com/disney-ca ... %20service.

Go away.

[AzCatFan2]

ESPN+ currently requires a separate subscription for sports bars and restaurants. And ESPN+ will be showing MLB games early in the football season, and NHL games later. Not to mention SEC and ACC games will on + as well. Our games will rarely get shown on linear TV, and be buried on +.

We don't know what the PAC will be. And if it's Apple and worth a lot more, I'd take that over being buried on +.

ESPN+ is still better for the Pac12 than Apple, because actual sports fans and bars subscribe to the service. No sports fans (outside of MLS fans) subscribe to Apple. Most of their subscriptions are T-Mobile customers who get a complementary 1 year subscription of the service.

We know ESPN isn't involved with the PAC anymore and neither is FOX or CBS or NBC or Amazon. Credible reporting has literally ruled them all out.

If you take more money from Apple to be on a streaming service little to zero sports fans subscribe to, then you are mentally handicapped and your caretaker should remove the keyboard from your reach for the world's sake. Also Apple isn't going to pay more than they have to to land the Pac-12, which means it'll be probably $20-25 million for every thing at best, which is considerably less per year than Big 12 with 70% FOX/ESPN and 30% ESPN+.

I can't fathom how you have a brain that comes to the conclusions you do. Normal human beings typically have the capability for rational thoughts. I'm surprised your brain even remembers to breathe at this point.

If you have an argument to make, make it. Stop belittling yourself with the childish insults towards me and my family. Only makes you seem little and childish.

ESPN might be known for sports, but who is going to watch Arizona at K State on ESPN+ besides both sets of Wildcats? Nobody. It's no different than appearing on Apple. And with Apple, maybe we can make more money?

I made my argument, numerous times. You have never countered it with anything resembling a rational thought, you merely move the goal posts and expect everybody else to shift with you. We're all better off with you not even commenting on the topic from this point on. I don't feel like I need to treat you as an equal. You're nothing more than a troll. Your AZ vs KSU example is just another moving of the goalposts bullshit. That matchup as of today is not a Tier 3 game. Both teams would be ranked. ESPN or FOX would carry that game 100 times out of 100. For the record though more people would watch the theoretical AZ/KSU matchup on ESPN+ than they would AZ/Oregon matchup on AppleTV and it wouldn't even be close.

ESPN+ has 25 million subscribers. AppleTV also has 25 million subscribers. Every ESPN+ subscriber is a sports fan. I'm not even sure 1/8 of AppleTV subscribers are sports fans.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/113 ... ribers-us/
https://frontofficesports.com/disney-ca ... %20service.

Go away.

Arizona at Miss St. will air on SEC Network. Really think Arizona at KState would absolutely be carried by ESPN linear? SECN is Tier 3, and if a T3 game is from the BIG12, it will be on plus.

And no, not all ESPN+ subs are sports fans. Nearly 40% of all Disney+ fans bundle their subscription with Hulu and ESPN+. For some of these, ESPN doesn't matter.

And BIG12 games on ESPN+ are going to be also ran games that get no publicity. ESPN is going to be promoting games on their linear channels like ABC and ESPN first, and on +, college football will be competing for promo space against MLB or the NHL depending on the calendar.

On a streaming service like Apple, they will work hard to make their investment work. How much is it worth saying at least we're on ESPN when ahead of us are games on ABC, ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, and MLB/NHL on ESPN+?

[CardiacCats97]

On a streaming service like Apple, they will work hard to make their investment work.

Paramount+ lost $500M last year even though it was the only medium you could watch the biggest movie in the world (Top Gun) after it left theaters.

You’re acting like these companies are rational actors. They aren’t. Often the bad ideas of executives with golden parachutes who try to be innovative for the sake of their resumes end up killing them.

Just because Apple execs may want to get into streaming sports doesn’t mean it’s a good idea for them or for us. Stop thinking that these guys with bloated titles and salaries are smarter than everyone else. Oftentimes they just have a loud voice and no one tells them to shut the fuck up. And when they have moved on to their next cushy job they leave destruction in their wake. You’re lining us up to be that destruction with the idea that if Apple signs on the PAC they will support the schools and product come hell or high water. There is ample evidence that won’t be the case.

[azcat49]

So Apple Pay’s 30m per team for say 5 years and hopes at worst the PAC fans subscribe. Banking on the fans of this conference is a fools errand. Who would you bet on, PAC fans or Big12 fans subscribing more to a streamed channel? I don’t think it would be close.

Still this argument of streaming is not the issue to me. It’s stability and survivability that seems most important

[ChooChooCat]

On a streaming service like Apple, they will work hard to make their investment work.

Paramount+ lost $500M last year even though it was the only medium you could watch the biggest movie in the world (Top Gun) after it left theaters.

You’re acting like these companies are rational actors. They aren’t. Often the bad ideas of executives with golden parachutes who try to be innovative for the sake of their resumes end up killing them.

Just because Apple execs may want to get into streaming sports doesn’t mean it’s a good idea for them or for us. Stop thinking that these guys with bloated titles and salaries are smarter than everyone else. Oftentimes they just have a loud voice and no one tells them to shut the fuck up. And when they have moved on to their next cushy job they leave destruction in their wake. You’re lining us up to be that destruction with the idea that if Apple signs on the PAC they will support the schools and product come hell or high water. There is ample evidence that won’t be the case.

MLS signed an exclusive deal with Apple. I own numerous Apple products. Do you know how often I get notified of any MLS game or hell even MLB game that Apple is airing on any of my Apple products? Not. Fucking. Once. So much for working hard to make their investment work. ESPN cross promotes all of its games, so does FOX. Apple hasn't promoted any sporting event they're airing once to me and I have one of their products in my pocket every single day of my life.

Also Apple isn't going to overpay for the Pac-12. They literally have zero competitors now. They aren't going to drive up the price for no good reasons. These businesses don't bid against themselves and aren't successful due to pissing money away.

[ChooChooCat]

So Apple Pay’s 30m per team for say 5 years and hopes at worst the PAC fans subscribe. Banking on the fans of this conference is a fools errand. Who would you bet on, PAC fans or Big12 fans subscribing more to a streamed channel? I don’t think it would be close.

Still this argument of streaming is not the issue to me. It’s stability and survivability that seems most important

Apple isn't going to pay 30m per team for the Pac-12. That's not even remotely on the table.

[Merkin]

So Apple Pay’s 30m per team for say 5 years and hopes at worst the PAC fans subscribe. Banking on the fans of this conference is a fools errand. Who would you bet on, PAC fans or Big12 fans subscribing more to a streamed channel? I don’t think it would be close.

Still this argument of streaming is not the issue to me. It’s stability and survivability that seems most important

I already pay to stream Netflix, Prime, and for commercial free versions of Peacock and Paramount+.

I also pay to stream SlingTV during basketball season, and used to for football to get the P12 and ESPN channels, and even then I hesitated since Sling jacked up the price.

So really doubt I will sign up for Apple too unless they will show all the games and I don't have to subscribe to anything else. I don't have cable or satellite.

[AzCatFan2]

ESPN will eventually become a pay product. Losing too many subscribers from cable and satellite.

Playing road games at BIG12 schools mean playing in the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd window. 1st window is the B1G Noon, with a 2nd tier SEC or ACC game on ESPN. Maybe our game would be on FS1? And it's not like our history of AM Tucson starts is good.

2nd or 3rd window and we're competing against B1G, SEC, and ACC tier 1 and tier 2 games, as well as other BIG12 games. I know nobody likes 4th window games, but they are profitable for the networks, and offer us our best football exposure.


If we're in a BIG12 Pod with BYU, the 4 corner schools, and SDSU, that would work. But just us, Colorado, and BYU in the Mountain time zone? That will likely cost us exposure and games on ESPN+. The three plus SDSU? Maybe good enough?

[Merkin]

So UA football hasn't led the nation in 7pm and 8pm starts over the last 5 years with many being on the PAC-12 Network?

Big-12 doesn't care about UA football, lets revisit what Brett Yormark said:

"As I've said all along, we have an appetite to be a national conference in our makeup from coast to coast, and we do believe in the upside of basketball moving forward as a collective group.

https://www.cjonline.com/story/sports/c ... 281093007/

Although with CU and UA they won't be coast to coast unless they can snag OU or UW which is not likely.

[PHXCATS]

Moving to the Big 12 will result in more 7pm and 8pm home kickoffs

[ChooChooCat]

If Arizona goes it’ll be because the TV deal just isn’t there, in which case ASU will be right behind us.

[ChooChooCat]

Moving to the Big 12 will result in more 7pm and 8pm home kickoffs

And earlier games when we play on the road. God forbid.
It’s too hot to play earlier in Tucson in the months of September and October. You’re arguing garbage.

[PHXCATS]

Moving to the Big 12 will result in more 7pm and 8pm home kickoffs

And earlier games when we play on the road. God forbid.
It’s too hot to play earlier in Tucson in the months of September and October. You’re arguing garbage.

I am not arguing anything. I said what would happen.

[ChooChooCat]

Look any argument is shut down completely by the TV deal. If a Hail Mary exists and a good TV deal with good exposure and pay comes from out of left field we will stay. If the deal is putrid and vast majority streaming like Apple then our hands are truly tied. It’s a death sentence for everyone to sign into that.