2024-25 Arizona Basketball

[IndianaZonaFan]

Outright getting paid........in the open??? No, there certainly was not otherwise Oregon and Phil Knight would have been hauling in MUCH better recruiting classes for years. Was there money being exchanged under the table, most certainly, especially in football in places like the SEC. But it certainly was not widespread, at least not in college basketball, otherwise the UA would have never had the type of recruiting success they enjoyed Pre-NIL.

LOL there were movies and FBI investigations dedicated to the shady money in recruiting.

ROTFLMAO.........Yes, and they turned up only a handful of schools that were benefiting from agents/shoe money. And the money that was being thrown around was an order of magnitude less than what the payouts are in the NIL period. Deandre Ayton allegedly got $100,000. That won't even buy you one 3 star recruit in the SEC.

And that was from a single fishing scheme from the FBI. Just because you go fishing and catch 5 bass, doesn’t mean there were only 5 fish in the lake.

[dmjcat]

Outright getting paid........in the open??? No, there certainly was not otherwise Oregon and Phil Knight would have been hauling in MUCH better recruiting classes for years. Was there money being exchanged under the table, most certainly, especially in football in places like the SEC. But it certainly was not widespread, at least not in college basketball, otherwise the UA would have never had the type of recruiting success they enjoyed Pre-NIL.

LOL there were movies and FBI investigations dedicated to the shady money in recruiting.

ROTFLMAO.........Yes, and they turned up only a handful of schools that were benefiting from agents/shoe money. And the money that was being thrown around was an order of magnitude less than what the payouts are in the NIL period. Deandre Ayton allegedly got $100,000. That won't even buy you one 3 star recruit in the SEC.

And that was from a single fishing scheme from the FBI. Just because you go fishing and catch 5 bass, doesn’t mean there were only 5 fish in the lake.

Actually, it is possible there were only 5 bass in the lake and you caught all of them.

[AZCatGirl]

Outright getting paid........in the open??? No, there certainly was not otherwise Oregon and Phil Knight would have been hauling in MUCH better recruiting classes for years. Was there money being exchanged under the table, most certainly, especially in football in places like the SEC. But it certainly was not widespread, at least not in college basketball, otherwise the UA would have never had the type of recruiting success they enjoyed Pre-NIL.

LOL there were movies and FBI investigations dedicated to the shady money in recruiting.

ROTFLMAO.........Yes, and they turned up only a handful of schools that were benefiting from agents/shoe money. And the money that was being thrown around was an order of magnitude less than what the payouts are in the NIL period. Deandre Ayton allegedly got $100,000. That won't even buy you one 3 star recruit in the SEC.

And that was from a single fishing scheme from the FBI. Just because you go fishing and catch 5 bass, doesn’t mean there were only 5 fish in the lake.

Actually, it is possible there were only 5 bass in the lake and you caught all of them.

You know, I agree with you (up to a point) about how the current NIL landscape is hurting us.

But to think that the FBI caught everyone that was cheating is absolutely laughable.

[Postmaster]

On the bright side, I think we had a better showing this time than our last Atlantis trip

[AZCatGirl]

On the bright side, I think we had a better showing this time than our last Atlantis trip

To be a wet blanket, pretty sure Miller's team that got swept could've easily beat Davidson too.

[Beachcat97]

Not much to feel good about at the moment. And the longer the Peat recruitment goes on, the less I like our chances.

[Winger]

Some numbers, 7 games in.

1. This Lloyd-Arizona team can’t shoot.
This is a biggie. Current eFG% is 51.4%, 160th nationally, which is the worst shooting team for Lloyd by good measure (previous teams ranked 15th, 3rd, and 30th). And it’s not only 3s, the Cats also aren’t shooting 2s at a normal-for-Lloyd percentage.

2. Arizona also can’t defend.
In what is a bit of an alarming trend: Arizona’s defensive eFG% rank has steadily degraded under Lloyd’s tenure. From 8th to 36th to 68th to this season’s 125th. Some of that I guess could be expected as Miller’s players filtered out (different systems and player-type priorities) but the problem there is that 3 of 4 of Miller’s final squads were outliers for him defensively as well (i.e. poor defensive teams).

3. The Cats no longer assist the ball.
The 2nd most striking thing to my eyes after the shooting. This is a big part of what I get at when I say that I don’t recognize Arizona’s offense. Lloyd’s initial 3 seasons the assist numbers were mind-boggling, national ranks for assist % of: 2nd, 5th, and 25th. This season? 237th. TWO HUNDRED THIRTY SEVENTH. That is insane.

4. The Cats haven’t been very good in several other facets as well.
Defensive rebounding after improving each season under Lloyd has taken a significant step backwards through the first 7 games. We foul too much and in particular are sending opponents to the line more than we ever have. The Cats continue to turn the ball over at a high rate (similar to Lloyd’s previous teams) and this is the worst Lloyd team to date at getting to the line.

Coach said yesterday that he still believes this is a good team. By good I assume he means something like in the mix in the Big 12 and Top 20ish. “Arizona good”.

Can’t find that in the numbers anywhere.

[TucsonClip]

Some numbers, 7 games in.

1. This Lloyd-Arizona team can’t shoot.
This is a biggie. Current eFG% is 51.4%, 160th nationally, which is the worst shooting team for Lloyd by good measure (previous teams ranked 15th, 3rd, and 30th). And it’s not only 3s, the Cats also aren’t shooting 2s at a normal-for-Lloyd percentage.

2. Arizona also can’t defend.
In what is a bit of an alarming trend: Arizona’s defensive eFG% rank has steadily degraded under Lloyd’s tenure. From 8th to 36th to 68th to this season’s 125th. Some of that I guess could be expected as Miller’s players filtered out (different systems and player-type priorities) but the problem there is that 3 of 4 of Miller’s final squads were outliers for him defensively as well (i.e. poor defensive teams).

3. The Cats no longer assist the ball.
The 2nd most striking thing to my eyes after the shooting. This is a big part of what I get at when I say that I don’t recognize Arizona’s offense. Lloyd’s initial 3 seasons the assist numbers were mind-boggling, national ranks for assist % of: 2nd, 5th, and 25th. This season? 237th. TWO HUNDRED THIRTY SEVENTH. That is insane.

4. The Cats haven’t been very good in several other facets as well.
Defensive rebounding after improving each season under Lloyd has taken a significant step backwards through the first 7 games. We foul too much and in particular are sending opponents to the line more than we ever have. The Cats continue to turn the ball over at a high rate (similar to Lloyd’s previous teams) and this is the worst Lloyd team to date at getting to the line.

Coach said yesterday that he still believes this is a good team. By good I assume he means something like in the mix in the Big 12 and Top 20ish. “Arizona good”.

Can’t find that in the numbers anywhere.

Roster is a big piece of the issue, which I warned about all off-season. Part of this is on the staff, just like we blamed Miller.

Nobody wants to advance the ball up the floor via hit ahead pass. Nobody willing to make a high low pass. Nobody willing to dribble open a passing lane for a paint seal. No ball rotation to hit the duck ins.

Nobody has the balls to even attempt the pass. If I have a 7'3 center who sealed his man on the topside, in the middle of the paint, I'm tossing him the ******** ball for an easy layup.

They aren't even getting it on secondary breaks off ball reversals. The guards won't throw it. Townsend sure as hell won't. Keshad wouldn't last year.

It's more of an indictment on our guards. That an easy assist for them.

Speaking of... Sanon would lead our team with a .645 eFG% and Nembhard leads the nation in assists...

[Merkin]

UA has moved up to 265th (from 270th) in 3 point defense allowing teams to make 35.6%. Last season the Cats allowed 32.9% made 3s.

Conversely, UA is making 242nd in making 3 point shots at 31%, after making 36.6% last season.

Cats are 7th in rebounds, 80th in assists (15 v. 18.5)

[Beachcat97]

These stats seem to portend the worst season of AZ hoops for quite some time.

[Winger]

Some numbers, 7 games in.

1. This Lloyd-Arizona team can’t shoot.
This is a biggie. Current eFG% is 51.4%, 160th nationally, which is the worst shooting team for Lloyd by good measure (previous teams ranked 15th, 3rd, and 30th). And it’s not only 3s, the Cats also aren’t shooting 2s at a normal-for-Lloyd percentage.

2. Arizona also can’t defend.
In what is a bit of an alarming trend: Arizona’s defensive eFG% rank has steadily degraded under Lloyd’s tenure. From 8th to 36th to 68th to this season’s 125th. Some of that I guess could be expected as Miller’s players filtered out (different systems and player-type priorities) but the problem there is that 3 of 4 of Miller’s final squads were outliers for him defensively as well (i.e. poor defensive teams).

3. The Cats no longer assist the ball.
The 2nd most striking thing to my eyes after the shooting. This is a big part of what I get at when I say that I don’t recognize Arizona’s offense. Lloyd’s initial 3 seasons the assist numbers were mind-boggling, national ranks for assist % of: 2nd, 5th, and 25th. This season? 237th. TWO HUNDRED THIRTY SEVENTH. That is insane.

4. The Cats haven’t been very good in several other facets as well.
Defensive rebounding after improving each season under Lloyd has taken a significant step backwards through the first 7 games. We foul too much and in particular are sending opponents to the line more than we ever have. The Cats continue to turn the ball over at a high rate (similar to Lloyd’s previous teams) and this is the worst Lloyd team to date at getting to the line.

Coach said yesterday that he still believes this is a good team. By good I assume he means something like in the mix in the Big 12 and Top 20ish. “Arizona good”.

Can’t find that in the numbers anywhere.

Roster is a big piece of the issue, which I warned about all off-season. Part of this is on the staff, just like we blamed Miller.

Nobody wants to advance the ball up the floor via hit ahead pass. Nobody willing to make a high low pass. Nobody willing to dribble open a passing lane for a paint seal. No ball rotation to hit the duck ins.

Nobody has the balls to even attempt the pass. If I have a 7'3 center who sealed his man on the topside, in the middle of the paint, I'm tossing him the ******** ball for an easy layup.

They aren't even getting it on secondary breaks off ball reversals. The guards won't throw it. Townsend sure as hell won't. Keshad wouldn't last year.

It's more of an indictment on our guards. That an easy assist for them.

Speaking of... Sanon would lead our team with a .645 eFG% and Nembhard leads the nation in assists...

Yeah, its the Island of Misfit toys lineup for sure.

My question is: why?

Or: what happened?

Is this the best Lloyd can recruit and/or afford?

[Beachcat97]

Keshad, Larsson and Ballo were massively important last season. Was always going to be difficult to make up for losing those 3.

[pc in NM]

We Only lost four starters from last year...

• Two are playing in the NBA

• One is starting PG, and a key contributer for a 5-1 BIG team

• One is starting Center and a key contributer for a 5-1 BIG team

The one returning starter is underperforming so far this early season....

Obviously, it's time to question CTL's coaching ability, and probably seriously question his character, not to mention his basketball IQ...

... Fuck "Bear Down"; let's take names and kick some ass, instead!!

[dmjcat]

LOL there were movies and FBI investigations dedicated to the shady money in recruiting.

ROTFLMAO.........Yes, and they turned up only a handful of schools that were benefiting from agents/shoe money. And the money that was being thrown around was an order of magnitude less than what the payouts are in the NIL period. Deandre Ayton allegedly got $100,000. That won't even buy you one 3 star recruit in the SEC.

And that was from a single fishing scheme from the FBI. Just because you go fishing and catch 5 bass, doesn’t mean there were only 5 fish in the lake.

Actually, it is possible there were only 5 bass in the lake and you caught all of them.

You know, I agree with you (up to a point) about how the current NIL landscape is hurting us.

But to think that the FBI caught everyone that was cheating is absolutely laughable.

I certainly agree that they didn't catch everyone. But the mere fact that Deandre Ayton got $100,000 (and he was the #1 pick in the draft) shows that the cheating that was going on was relatively Penny-Ante compared to the wild wild west of NIL. If everyone was cheating Pre-NIL (an urban myth) Ayton would have commanded 20X that price.

[Chicat]

Repeating “Ayton got $100,000” like that’s some kind of evidence of anything either way is pretty funny.

[Winger]

It’s not the same thing as NIL and the money isn’t comparable but money to players, or more accurately, player’s posses, has been going on for a very long time. Word on the street as far back as the early 2000’s was that the going price for a “5-star” was $250,000.

With the changes in congress we may see a few changes to both the legal environment making players suing the NCAA more difficult (or impossible) and a structured NIL payment system.

Those having been relegated, including Arizona, are not going to be able to compete financially for things like football coaches and general managers; and probably even for basketball coaches; but the field may level out a bit in the near term future.

On a side note, many guys I know have been unwilling, for a variety of reasons, to contribute significant $$$ to both the collectives and even “directly” to the program. There are a few big time dudes who have done so but many of the mids I know have elected to mostly sit this NIL era out.

[enfuego]

A big time UA donor is a bar friend. He’s extremely disappointed with your football program (especially after last night’s butt whopping) and it’s exacerbated by your basketball start. Says if both can’t turn it around his donations will dry up.

[pc in NM]

A big time UA donor is a bar friend. He’s extremely disappointed with your football program (especially after last night’s butt whopping) and it’s exacerbated by your basketball start. Says if both can’t turn it around his donations will dry up.

Do you have any KU friends???

[UAEebs86]

Didn't enflamo get banned from a KU site back in the day?

[Beachcat97]

A big time UA donor is a bar friend. He’s extremely disappointed with your football program (especially after last night’s butt whopping) and it’s exacerbated by your basketball start. Says if both can’t turn it around his donations will dry up.

Call me crazy, but fueg’s post doesn’t sound so far fetched to me.

[azcat49]

Except I can’t imagine a big time cat booster sitting in a dive bar drinking with a loser like Fuegs

[Djcat]

Maybe Fugego has softened with age. He’s not such a troll anymore - picking us 6th in B12 and getting into the tourney!! I’m a Wildcat true and true and based on team’s performance, I wouldn’t picked us that high and don’t have high hopes for a tourney berth

[Beachcat97]

Maybe Fugego has softened with age. He’s not such a troll anymore - picking us 6th in B12 and getting into the tourney!! I’m a Wildcat true and true and based on team’s performance, I wouldn’t picked us that high and don’t have high hopes for a tourney berth

My neither. This team is soft. And Tommy's laid back vibe is kind of the worst possible pairing with this group, so far at least.

He needs a roster oozing with talent, and tbh, that's never been a problem for us. In his first year, he had Dalen, Mathurin, Tubelis, Larsson, and others. Arizona has been recruiting at an elite level for the last three decades, if not longer. There have been a few seasons that were exceptions, but this has been the norm.

This season's roster looks decent on paper, and they could be late-bloomers. We'll see. But the early returns indicate that we are going to get pushed around in the paint a lot, going to give up a ton of open 3s, and going to struggle with the unbelievable depth of the B12. It would not surprise me to see this team miss the tourney and finish below .500

Need to get that talent pipeline flowing again.

[Postmaster]

Except I can’t imagine a big time cat booster sitting in a dive bar drinking with a loser like Fuegs

I think a lot of boosters are at the bar after this week.
Even volleyball didn't make the tournament.

[ChooChooCat]

Not a lot to like about anything in Arizona Athletics sans the Triathlon program as of late.

[dmjcat]

Maybe Fugego has softened with age. He’s not such a troll anymore - picking us 6th in B12 and getting into the tourney!! I’m a Wildcat true and true and based on team’s performance, I wouldn’t picked us that high and don’t have high hopes for a tourney berth

My neither. This team is soft. And Tommy's laid back vibe is kind of the worst possible pairing with this group, so far at least.

He needs a roster oozing with talent, and tbh, that's never been a problem for us. In his first year, he had Dalen, Mathurin, Tubelis, Larsson, and others. Arizona has been recruiting at an elite level for the last three decades, if not longer. There have been a few seasons that were exceptions, but this has been the norm.

This season's roster looks decent on paper, and they could be late-bloomers. We'll see. But the early returns indicate that we are going to get pushed around in the paint a lot, going to give up a ton of open 3s, and going to struggle with the unbelievable depth of the B12. It would not surprise me to see this team miss the tourney and finish below .500

Need to get that talent pipeline flowing again.

I have serious doubts about the UA's abillity to get the talent pipeline flowing again and I'm not referring to CTL:'s ability to recruit.......I'm talking about money/NIL

BYU is about to cough up between $4-4.5 million$ to land one recruit. The UA can't even begin to match that in todays recruiting landscape.

www.si.com/fannation/name-image-likenes ... nil-demand

[LuteIsGod]

Maybe Fugego has softened with age. He’s not such a troll anymore - picking us 6th in B12 and getting into the tourney!! I’m a Wildcat true and true and based on team’s performance, I wouldn’t picked us that high and don’t have high hopes for a tourney berth

My neither. This team is soft. And Tommy's laid back vibe is kind of the worst possible pairing with this group, so far at least.

He needs a roster oozing with talent, and tbh, that's never been a problem for us. In his first year, he had Dalen, Mathurin, Tubelis, Larsson, and others. Arizona has been recruiting at an elite level for the last three decades, if not longer. There have been a few seasons that were exceptions, but this has been the norm.

This season's roster looks decent on paper, and they could be late-bloomers. We'll see. But the early returns indicate that we are going to get pushed around in the paint a lot, going to give up a ton of open 3s, and going to struggle with the unbelievable depth of the B12. It would not surprise me to see this team miss the tourney and finish below .500

Need to get that talent pipeline flowing again.

I’m concerned about this season. I agree that Tommy is too laid back and finding kids with already established work ethics is rare and I believe becoming rarer.

I saw examples of laziness from players like Tubelis, Love, Boswell and Larsson on previous teams and now I feel it’s endemic to many players on the current roster.

Perhaps this is just the trajectory of major sports in general and everyone is in it for themselves and it won’t exist in a traditional sense for much longer.

[Merkin]

www.si.com/fannation/name-image-likenes ... nil-demand

That was a good read.

Although not sure how Ballo received a cool mil.

[dmjcat]

Another good read on just where the UA stands relative to the major BBall powers (and the Big12). There are 5 Big12 teams in front of us on the NIL gravy train (for basketball..........football is most assuredly worse). We are light years behind Kansas. I can't imagine effectively competing against them going forward unless our alumni base really opens its collective wallets.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-baske ... ituations/

Which three programs do you believe have the best NIL situations?
Team Percentage of ballots
team appeared on

Arkansas 73.7%
Kansas 43.2%
BYU 30.6%
Kentucky 25.3%
Indiana 16.9%
Kansas State 13.7%
Baylor 11.6%
Louisville 11.6%
Alabama 10.5%
Illinois 9.5%
Texas Tech 9.5%
Duke 8.4%
UConn 6.3%
North Carolina 6.3%
Tennessee 4.2%
Memphis 3.2%
Texas 3 .2%
Ohio State 2.1%
St. John's 2.1%

[dmjcat]

www.si.com/fannation/name-image-likenes ... nil-demand

That was a good read.

Although not sure how Ballo received a cool mil.

Indiana wants to win now and their coach has a big bag of NIL

[Beachcat97]

Not a lot to like about anything in Arizona Athletics sans the Triathlon program as of late.

Any feeling on Koa Peat, Choo?

[Dave]

Where is this going to end with revenue sharing and NIL? We are going to hit a point where these athletic departments are bled dry.

[dmjcat]

One other good read (A chunk of it is behind a paywall). It gives you a good idea on the importance of NIL

https://247sports.com/article/the-cost- ... 229902614/

This is a snippet of the article:

No matter who you talk to, everyone agrees: Without NIL money, you've got no shot at winning big. You might not like paying players through NIL or that the transfer portal has created free agency within the sport, but if you're not properly utilizing both, you'll fall way behind. It's the reality of the game.

"I've talked to a couple basketball coaches and they'd rather have some booster give a million dollars to NIL than have a great recruiter on their staff," said retired Hall of Fame basketball coach Gary Williams, who won a national title at Maryland in 2002. "It's just the way it is now. You need money – guys are going to go where they can make the most money."

[Dave]

Can someone convince me that we are not heading to a land of mediocrity?

[KaibabKat]

Not a single vote in the AP poll today. Over 50 teams received votes.

[Chicat]

Not a single vote in the AP poll today. Over 50 teams received votes.

Anyone still voting for us to be in the Top-25 would need their head examined.

[Postmaster]

Im afraid d the NIL has caught up to us a lot sooner than most of us thought. College sports may need to restart with an ameture league and a pro league. It's one thing to get a booster to pitch in a million or two a couple times a decade. But those kind of donations aren't happening every year for a lot of schools. I would also think the donations for things like a new locker room or a new practice facility will be aimed toward NIL instead. Arizona doesn't really have a Tyson chicken or a Nike owner hanging around.

[Merkin]

I am sure this opened Tommy's eyes too. So much for him thinking the Cats were more deserving of a 9 ranking after beating Canislaus.

Not sure what adjustments he can make. Love is Love and they won't change. The UA has no true point guard in the playing rotation, and the two true 7 footers are extremely soft.

Awaka and Townsend are strong and physical, just a couple inches too short.


65th in NET rankings: https://www.ncaa.com/rankings/basketbal ... t-rankings

5 Big 12 teams in top 25.

[Beachcat97]

Can someone convince me that we are not heading to a land of mediocrity?

Not at the moment. Not with all this pessimism surrounding the new NIL-impacted landscape.

This even reopens the old wounds from coming close to the FF so many times over the last couple decades, and of losing early in the tourney. This program could've easily added 2-3 FFs to its legacy, maybe even a national title. But we have nothing truly meaningful to show for all the great recruiting classes, high preseason rankings, and high tourney seeds over the last 25 years. Just a lot of Pac titles.

[GlobalCat]

Im afraid d the NIL has caught up to us a lot sooner than most of us thought. College sports may need to restart with an ameture league and a pro league. It's one thing to get a booster to pitch in a million or two a couple times a decade. But those kind of donations aren't happening every year for a lot of schools. I would also think the donations for things like a new locker room or a new practice facility will be aimed toward NIL instead. Arizona doesn't really have a Tyson chicken or a Nike owner hanging around.

Who funds Kansas? Adidas?

[LuteIsGod]

Im afraid d the NIL has caught up to us a lot sooner than most of us thought. College sports may need to restart with an ameture league and a pro league. It's one thing to get a booster to pitch in a million or two a couple times a decade. But those kind of donations aren't happening every year for a lot of schools. I would also think the donations for things like a new locker room or a new practice facility will be aimed toward NIL instead. Arizona doesn't really have a Tyson chicken or a Nike owner hanging around.

I think the NIL argument will hold weight once the tourney rolls around. If some conference champion small schools get to the Sweet 16, then I think our poor play still falls on Tommy. And if the big name schools take the last 16 spots, I will be resigned to the fact that the end is here and I’ll just wax poetic about how much I loved Lute.

[Postmaster]

Im afraid d the NIL has caught up to us a lot sooner than most of us thought. College sports may need to restart with an ameture league and a pro league. It's one thing to get a booster to pitch in a million or two a couple times a decade. But those kind of donations aren't happening every year for a lot of schools. I would also think the donations for things like a new locker room or a new practice facility will be aimed toward NIL instead. Arizona doesn't really have a Tyson chicken or a Nike owner hanging around.

Who funds Kansas? Adidas?

Horejsi family?? Net worth 3.9 billion

[UAEebs86]

Our billionaires are a-holes who don't give to their alma mater.

[Postmaster]

Im afraid d the NIL has caught up to us a lot sooner than most of us thought. College sports may need to restart with an ameture league and a pro league. It's one thing to get a booster to pitch in a million or two a couple times a decade. But those kind of donations aren't happening every year for a lot of schools. I would also think the donations for things like a new locker room or a new practice facility will be aimed toward NIL instead. Arizona doesn't really have a Tyson chicken or a Nike owner hanging around.

Who funds Kansas? Adidas?

Horejsi family?? Net worth 3.9 billion

Brad Garlinghouse, some crypto guy

[Postmaster]

Our billionaires are a-holes who don't give to their alma mater.

Like who?
I know I've heard someone alienated Arte Moreno. Not sure who else has mad cash besides Click.

[Postmaster]

I have also some guy is a big donor but also donates a lot to Gonzaga.

[UAEebs86]

Our billionaires are a-holes who don't give to their alma mater.

Like who?
I know I've heard someone alienated Arte Moreno. Not sure who else has mad cash besides Click.

Woody Johnson

Robert Sarver is close to being a billionaire.


Jerry Bruckheimer is worth about a billion too.

[PHXCATS]

Can someone convince me that we are not heading to a land of mediocrity?

Holy fucking shit

[Winger]

Our billionaires are a-holes who don't give to their alma mater.

Like who?
I know I've heard someone alienated Arte Moreno. Not sure who else has mad cash besides Click.

Imv there are 4 or 5 Arizona whales. We lost Arte when Byrne was hired. 1 of the whales I am pretty certain doesnt give a rip about sports. Another has long standing issues with the Arizona AD (partly imo because he is a dick). The others contribute, and contribute a lot.

[dovecanyoncat]

Can someone convince me that we are not heading to a land of mediocrity?

Holy fucking shit

Clearly prayer is your answer then.