2024-25 Arizona Basketball

[Postmaster]

On post game after Saturday's game CTL said that he has to determine when Ado's offense outweighs his defense.
So CTL is aware of ADO's defensive limitations.

[Chicat]

On post game after Saturday's game CTL said that he has to determine when Ado's offense outweighs his defense.
So CTL is aware of ADO's defensive limitations.

Stevie Wonder is aware of ADO’s defensive limitations.

[UAEebs86]

[Alieberman]

I might need to watch that 70 times

[dovecanyoncat]

SUPERB!!

[azcat49]

Article from an ISU perspective

https://cyclonefanatic.com/2025/01/note ... ucson/amp/

[Chicat]

Article from an ISU perspective

https://cyclonefanatic.com/2025/01/note ... ucson/amp/

Lot of mutual respect there. I would love nothing more than to have them become a new rival. I’m already conditioned to dislike the colors so it’s an easy transition.

[Postmaster]

I was amused at the position OTZ was frozen in during the shot and after. It was sort of symbolic of what just happened to the Clones.

[Merkin]

Article from an ISU perspective

https://cyclonefanatic.com/2025/01/note ... ucson/amp/

Interesting question about fouling.

Up 3 points and 2.6 seconds left. Why foul a man 55+ feet away who contesting from the basket and put him in a spot 15 feet from the basket with no defender, and a set shot? Yes, only 2 free throws, but make the first, and bounce the 2nd high. Fran mentioned his teams practiced that.

So Otz made the right call, it just didn't work.

[Fishclamps]

Article from an ISU perspective

https://cyclonefanatic.com/2025/01/note ... ucson/amp/

Interesting question about fouling.

Up 3 points and 2.6 seconds left. Why foul a man 55+ feet away who contesting from the basket and put him in a spot 15 feet from the basket with no defender, and a set shot? Yes, only 2 free throws, but make the first, and bounce the 2nd high. Fran mentioned his teams practiced that.

So Otz made the right call, it just didn't work.

Having us shoot FTs also means Tobe, who had been dominating them on the glass all night and scoring with putbacks, is in a perfect position to do it one more time.

[TucsonClip]

Why don't you note each time ADO gives an opponent "free points".

BTW, what is Arizona's record since ADO become a starter?? It's 10-1

This board's server doesn't have the bandwidth for me to post every instance where ADO has given Arizona's opposition free points.

Good point on the 10-1 record.

Guessing that would be part of Lloyd's answer to my question regarding why the F he starts him versus opponents he knows he can't play against.

That idea of "starts him versus opponents he knows he can't play against" would be a valuable real-time discussion topic. I maintain that ADO brings a lot to the table that doesn't get captured in stats. He's a good check against too much standing and dribbling.

And, I readily agree that he has defensive weaknesses, though I believe they are overstated most of the time. But, Bryant has similar weakness too, at present.

I really like KJ and Bryant coming in off the bench, too.

For me it's all about having a viable 8-man rotation. And, I think we have that now.

ADO is absolutely one of the worst defenders we've had in a decade, maybe more. Hands down. Townsend isn't lurking far behind either. He's been horrendous defensively the majority of the season. He's had some moments sprinkled in, but I thought for sure Lloyd was going with Henri at the 4 when he pulled Carter with 4 fouls and 6 mins left. Carter was back in at the under 4.

[EastCoastCat]

I read a few of the in game Cyclone posts and I didn’t think they were that knowledgeable a fanbase, nor did they give us too much respect as well (not that I care).

A lot of them were whining about not getting foul calls in OT when their players kept dribbling into the paint and getting stripped. Considering how they play on defense, which is about as physical as it gets, and the way the game was officiated all game I thought that was a bit ironic.

And most of them agreed we will get curb stomped in Ames.

They think they are fucking Kansas or Duke, not Iowa State.

[Fishclamps]

Well, they're better than Kansas at least

[Winger]

Article from an ISU perspective

https://cyclonefanatic.com/2025/01/note ... ucson/amp/

Interesting question about fouling.

So Otz made the right call, it just didn't work.

It’s complicated.

This topic — whether or not to foul in the closing seconds when up 3 — was a hot topic in the college basketball stats/metric world and a lot of work was done on it.

Here were the principal takeaways:

1. There wasn’t enough data available to support a definite conclusion on the right strategy.
2. A coach is highly likely to win regardless of strategy (think 95%+).
3. The preponderance of the data showed a very slight advantage for not fouling/defending, but it was on the order of 1%.

Some caveats:
1. A game tying 3FG is more likely to make a highlight show than a missed one and as well than a team not being successful at making 1 FT, then missing, grabbing the offensive rebound, and converting a FGA. So, we see more examples of the (slightly) more successful strategy failing than the opposite. LIKE MONDAY NIGHT BITCHES!
2. Significantly more coaches defend than foul.
3. A player is less likely than normal to make a 3FG in this situation and the difference in percentage is significant.
4. A team is more likely than normal to grab an offensive rebound off of a FT miss in this situation.

Regarding ISU’s call:

One could make the argument that it was the right one in part because Arizona was: 1) inbounding the ball in the backcourt and 2) didn’t have enough time to get it across half court (because ISU smartly chose to defend the players (Veesaar primarily) in the front court positioning to accept a long in-bounds pass ——> meaning that Arizona was likely to take a more difficult/longer than normal 3FG c/w the average end of game potential tying 3FGA. Thus making the odds supporting defending even more favorable.

You could argue that it was the wrong call because a successful foul would lead to some of the 2.3 seconds left on the clock coming off, potentially making a missed FT —> OR —> made FG impossible due to lack of time. And maybe because the loseness of the manner in which the game was called to that point might suggest that the refs weren’t going to call a touch foul allowing you to potentially make making a 3FG near impossible.

But, man you better not foul Love as he goes up for that 60 footer. Nor be called for an intentional foul.

Because, if you make that call and lose the game you’re going to be second guessed to the point of eviceration.

Point being: college head coaches are pussies.

For a football example see: Jedd Fisch, Arizona football, end of OT, 2023 season, @USC.

[Winger]

On post game after Saturday's game CTL said that he has to determine when Ado's offense outweighs his defense.
So CTL is aware of ADO's defensive limitations.

You want to impress me Stevie? Take the wheel mother******.

I can help Lloyd with this and it’s really not that complicated.

If Arizona is playing a lousy offensive team who isn’t that athletic/strong/quick/aggressive on the perimeter and plays a ton of zone then, by all means, play ADO to your hearts content (see: Arizona vs CU, 2025).

If Arizona is playing a good offensive team that is athletic/strong/quick/aggressive on the perimeter and doesn’t play hardly any zone, well … this isn’t a game for ADO and you can’t play him hardly at all.

Lloyd knows this. He was playing the fools and homers in his press room with that comment. He simply hasn’t conceded it (his mistake) yet. Aside from his track record of playing ADO significantly fewer minutes vs these kinds of opponents as I show above.

10-1 !!!

[Chicat]

But, man you better not foul Love as he goes up for that 60 footer.

That’s the big one. As soon as Love feels the contact coming he’s going up for that shot. Then it doesn’t matter if it goes in. And if it does? Holy shit…

[AzCatFan2]

2.3 seconds. You have time for two dribbles before the shot. Iowa St. did the right thing playing prevent D for no long passes. But they could have fouled Love between dribbles. Impossible for him to be in the act of shooting if it's time correctly. Easier said than done. Would have also fouled with between 1 and 1.5 second left, meaning our best shot was made first FT, then tip in the second miss.

Percentage wise, personally, I'll take my chances with someone having to make the first FT then tip in the 2nd miss over a half court shot. Neither is a high percentage play, and Love just hit a 60' prayer, which makes the strategy not to foul questionable.

[Fishclamps]

The correct call honestly might have been to miss the 2nd FT and if Arizona gets it and tries to pass they would basically be left with no time for a shot

[pc in NM]

On post game after Saturday's game CTL said that he has to determine when Ado's offense outweighs his defense.
So CTL is aware of ADO's defensive limitations.

You want to impress me Stevie? Take the wheel mother******.

I can help Lloyd with this and it’s really not that complicated.

If Arizona is playing a lousy offensive team who isn’t that athletic/strong/quick/aggressive on the perimeter and plays a ton of zone then, by all means, play ADO to your hearts content (see: Arizona vs CU, 2025).

If Arizona is playing a good offensive team that is athletic/strong/quick/aggressive on the perimeter and doesn’t play hardly any zone, well … this isn’t a game for ADO and you can’t play him hardly at all.

Lloyd knows this. He was playing the fools and homers in his press room with that comment. He simply hasn’t conceded it (his mistake) yet. Aside from his track record of playing ADO significantly fewer minutes vs these kinds of opponents as I show above.

10-1 !!!

So, let me get this straight. You consider yourself smarter than CTL, and for games against top Big-12 opponents, and in the post-season, you're recommending a 7-man rotation? No? Who's your suggested eighth man?

[Fishclamps]

Give it a rest dude

[Winger]

The correct call honestly might have been to miss the 2nd FT and if Arizona gets it and tries to pass they would basically be left with no time for a shot

That is a really tough call for a coach to make because now you're bringing in to the equation the possibility of 1) a loss in regulation w a made 3 and 2) going to OT if you inadvertently foul b/c Arizona was in the bonus.

[Merkin]

I read a few of the in game Cyclone posts and I didn’t think they were that knowledgeable a fanbase, nor did they give us too much respect as well (not that I care).

But, man you better not foul Love as he goes up for that 60 footer.

That’s the big one. As soon as Love feels the contact coming he’s going up for that shot. Then it doesn’t matter if it goes in. And if it does? Holy shit…

Reading that ISU board, some of the posters thought the defender should have been closer. This is definitely close enough. The tips of their fingers are perpendicular.

[azcat49]

On post game after Saturday's game CTL said that he has to determine when Ado's offense outweighs his defense.
So CTL is aware of ADO's defensive limitations.

Frankly, ADO is the worst defender I have ever seen at the D-1 level. What gets me more upset is his effort, which is almost non existent on that end of the floor. I wonder how he is able to watch film with his teammates knowing the film will show him getting abused.

He wants more minutes and we do need his shooting and he has to know if he improved at the defensive end he would get all the minutes he could handle

[LuteIsGod]

On post game after Saturday's game CTL said that he has to determine when Ado's offense outweighs his defense.
So CTL is aware of ADO's defensive limitations.

Frankly, ADO is the worst defender I have ever seen at the D-1 level. What gets me more upset is his effort, which is almost non existent on that end of the floor. I wonder how he is able to watch film with his teammates knowing the film will show him getting abused.

He wants more minutes and we do need his shooting and he has to know if he improved at the defensive end he would get all the minutes he could handle

Bring in Chris Rodgers to act as his personal consultant!

[PHXCATS]

If Lloyd thinks ADO will help ADO will play. If not ADO won't play

Casr closed

Lloyd has earned trust

[pc in NM]

The team struggled early. Replacing four starters and incorporating new players proved to be much more difficult than the fans anticipated.

CTL made many roster changes, played deep into the bench, moved KJ to a sub role, and Krivas was out for the season.

After UCLA, most were shocked that Arizona was 4-5.

So, CTL made the unexpected decision to insert ADO into the starting line-up.

WTF????

Since then, Arizona has gone 10-1.

(Mike drop)

[Alieberman]

The bottom line is this-

This is our team. We have no other options. We need a guard off the bench and as far as I know we're not allowed to pick up a free agent mid season.

Like it or not... ADO is going to play in every game... some games more than others.

Not entirely sure what's worth arguing here?

[gouacats]

...as far as I know we're not allowed to pick up a free agent mid season.

These days I wouldn't be so sure about that!

[Winger]

The bottom line is this-

This is our team. We have no other options. We need a guard off the bench and as far as I know we're not allowed to pick up a free agent mid season.

Like it or not... ADO is going to play in every game... some games more than others.

Not entirely sure what's worth arguing here?

I don't know how to measure the worth of an argument; but the point is:

Against a bunch of teams that Arizona has and will face this season ADO can't compete and is a near-total liability. And, that this is easily predictable. So ... why the heck start him (both halves) against those teams?

No one outside of the locker room can answer that question. Shoot, I am not certain even Lloyd would have a (good and reasonable) answer for it.

You're are knowingly conceding points to start both halves by doing this. As I showed above: 7 points vs ISU. Why the heck would Arizona/Lloyd/anyone do that?

I could prove this to each and every one of you with 10 minutes of tape. Shoot, if you have these games on DVR you can go prove it to yourself by watching what he does/doesn't do every possession.

If you don't have any recorded maybe set your DVR to record Houston.

[Chicat]

Is KJ coming off the bench that important to how he plays? That’s the only reason ADO starts.

And I actually think ADO would be better coming off the bench, matching up against the other team’s 2nd squad players and after getting a feel for the flow of the game so he’s not getting torched right out of the gate.

[Alieberman]

The bottom line is this-

This is our team. We have no other options. We need a guard off the bench and as far as I know we're not allowed to pick up a free agent mid season.

Like it or not... ADO is going to play in every game... some games more than others.

Not entirely sure what's worth arguing here?

I don't know how to measure the worth of an argument; but the point is:

Against a bunch of teams that Arizona has and will face this season ADO can't compete and is a near-total liability. And, that this is easily predictable. So ... why the heck start him (both halves) against those teams?

No one outside of the locker room can answer that question. Shoot, I am not certain even Lloyd would have a (good and reasonable) answer for it.

You're are knowingly conceding points to start both halves by doing this. As I showed above: 7 points vs ISU. Why the heck would Arizona/Lloyd/anyone do that?

I could prove this to each and every one of you with 10 minutes of tape. Shoot, if you have these games on DVR you can go prove it to yourself by watching what he does/doesn't do every possession.

If you don't have any recorded maybe set your DVR to record Houston.

I know exactly what ADO provides / lacks!

What are his overall +/- numbers, I'm curious?

Starting or not starting... i don't really see what it changes I guess. If we are giving up 5 more point during the 1st 5 minutes of the game, or the 2nd 5 minutes of the game... does it really matter?

My guess is that Tommy doesn't think so

[pc in NM]

The bottom line is this-

This is our team. We have no other options. We need a guard off the bench and as far as I know we're not allowed to pick up a free agent mid season.

Like it or not... ADO is going to play in every game... some games more than others.

Not entirely sure what's worth arguing here?

I don't know how to measure the worth of an argument; but the point is:

Against a bunch of teams that Arizona has and will face this season ADO can't compete and is a near-total liability. And, that this is easily predictable. So ... why the heck start him (both halves) against those teams?

No one outside of the locker room can answer that question. Shoot, I am not certain even Lloyd would have a (good and reasonable) answer for it.

You're are knowingly conceding points to start both halves by doing this. As I showed above: 7 points vs ISU. Why the heck would Arizona/Lloyd/anyone do that?

I could prove this to each and every one of you with 10 minutes of tape. Shoot, if you have these games on DVR you can go prove it to yourself by watching what he does/doesn't do every possession.

If you don't have any recorded maybe set your DVR to record Houston.

I know exactly what ADO provides / lacks!

What are his overall +/- numbers, I'm curious?

Starting or not starting... i don't really see what it changes I guess. If we are giving up 5 more point during the 1st 5 minutes of the game, or the 2nd 5 minutes of the game... does it really matter?

My guess is that Tommy doesn't think so

For the ADO critics, you should realize that, for you, the best thing about ADO starting is that he's out of the game earlier.

And, I think one of his strengths is that he's less likely than any other back-court player to dribble more than a couple before moving it on, is a good passer on the perimeter (keeps the ball moving around, is easily the best entry passer on the team). That helps to establish a pattern, rhythm, what have you. Then he leaves until CTL needs that again.

But, I can't stop emphasizing that, at a minimum, we need an 8-man rotation - his 12-17 minutes per game makes that viable, and, I don't see anyone else filling that role as well.

[PHXCATS]

ADO is good

End of story

Beat the fuck out of asu

[Winger]

I know exactly what ADO provides / lacks!

What are his overall +/- numbers, I'm curious?

Starting or not starting... i don't really see what it changes I guess. If we are giving up 5 more point during the 1st 5 minutes of the game, or the 2nd 5 minutes of the game... does it really matter?

Sorry, didn't intend to offend nor suggest that you didn't understand ADO's game.

And yeah Lloyd might go with the "a minute is a minute" argument as well. Or, maybe Lloyd would go with "spacing" or "has to be accounted for offensively" or some other trickle down effect of having him on the court (on offense, there are zero arguments of any kinds for him defensively.

+/- in college hoops should be ignored. Statistically way too noisy. Means nothing unless you have 2+ seasons of data figured in and even then its iffy.

But, wouldn't you prefer to maximize the chances of getting off to a good start to the halves?

For the ADO critics, you should realize that, for you, the best thing about ADO starting is that he's out of the game earlier.

By far the best argument I have seen to date!

[Merkin]

But, I can't stop emphasizing that, at a minimum, we need an 8-man rotation - his 12-17 minutes per game makes that viable, and, I don't see anyone else filling that role as well.

Gotta agree here. Recall vividly how gassed Kriisa and Tubelis were in the tourney only having a 7 man rotation. However, if the Cats face a smaller team, would like to see what Martinez can do on defense. He looks very TJ pesky like the few minutes he has been out there.

...as far as I know we're not allowed to pick up a free agent mid season.

These days I wouldn't be so sure about that!

Used to be more common than now. I seem to recall UA picked up some foreign player mid-season under Lute. Bad thing being you lose a whole season of eligibility for only playing half a season.

But since the semester started already it ain't going to happen.

[Alieberman]

Sorry, didn't intend to offend nor suggest that you didn't understand ADO's game.

No offense taken at all!

I fully concede that you know 1000% more about basketball stuff than me!

I just think ultimately there is no perfect scenario.

We are a very good team but because of some limitations in our roster... we are not an elite team. I don't think the decision to start ADO or have him coming off the bench really changes anything in the long run.

[Chicat]

There’s no science behind it, but I hate playing from behind because I feel like it takes more energy to catch up than it does to defend a lead. A lead also allows you to set the pace, and influence the crowd. On the road allowing a team to get their home crowd into the game early and to dictate pace can be really difficult to overcome. Seems silly just to give KJ that “coming off the bench” mentality but it is working so I should probably quit bitching.

[Alieberman]

There’s no science behind it, but I hate playing from behind because I feel like it takes more energy to catch up than it does to defend a lead. A lead also allows you to set the pace, and influence the crowd. On the road allowing a team to get their home crowd into the game early and to dictate pace can be really difficult to overcome. Seems silly just to give KJ that “coming off the bench” mentality but it is working so I should probably quit bitching.

Just because I'm bored- Here are all of scores 5 minutes into the game since we started Big 12 play:

TCU 11-6 (+5)
Cin 6-6 (Even)
WV 8-8 (Even)
UCF 16-12 (+4)
Baylor 7-3 (+4)
Texas Tech 7-9 (-2)
OK ST 10-11 (-1)
Colorado 12-7 (+5)
ISU 6-10 (-4)

Read into this what you want!

[azcat49]

I agree somebody has to eat some minutes, especially in a tough conference like the XII.

There are just some match ups where he specifically just can’t log big minutes. This past game was one of those. Really to bad that CTL seems as stubborn as Miller in refusing to play some zone. That could help to hide his deficiencies on defense.

Considering that Martinez has not really panned out as a backup PG, we really can’t miss on another guy with this roster. It really is a thin roster and CTL is doing great work with it but it also goes back to Wingers pre season critique of how it was assembled

[Chicat]

There’s no science behind it, but I hate playing from behind because I feel like it takes more energy to catch up than it does to defend a lead. A lead also allows you to set the pace, and influence the crowd. On the road allowing a team to get their home crowd into the game early and to dictate pace can be really difficult to overcome. Seems silly just to give KJ that “coming off the bench” mentality but it is working so I should probably quit bitching.

Just because I'm bored- Here are all of scores 5 minutes into the game since we started Big 12 play:

TCU 11-6 (+5)
Cin 6-6 (Even)
WV 8-8 (Even)
UCF 16-12 (+4)
Baylor 7-3 (+4)
Texas Tech 7-9 (-2)
OK ST 10-11 (-1)
Colorado 12-7 (+5)
ISU 6-10 (-4)

Read into this what you want!

Good thing the first half of the conference schedule is the easy half.

[Alieberman]

What's funny to me... I feel in the past we have always complained about slow starts... and here we are with a much weaker starting 5... and it really hasn't been a problem. (so far)

Nothing in this world makes sense to me!

[EastCoastCat]

We have to view this team much differently than past squads where we had the superior talent that could just overwhelm teams.

We have to squeeze the most out of this team and I actually think this might be CTL’s best coaching job. We are on a 10-1 run so wouldn’t change a thing although are schedule now gets tougher and we will see if this team has really taken the next step.

[Postmaster]

But, I can't stop emphasizing that, at a minimum, we need an 8-man rotation - his 12-17 minutes per game makes that viable, and, I don't see anyone else filling that role as well.

Gotta agree here. Recall vividly how gassed Kriisa and Tubelis were in the tourney only having a 7 man rotation. However, if the Cats face a smaller team, would like to see what Martinez can do on defense. He looks very TJ pesky like the few minutes he has been out there.

...as far as I know we're not allowed to pick up a free agent mid season.

These days I wouldn't be so sure about that!

Used to be more common than now. I seem to recall UA picked up some foreign player mid-season under Lute. Bad thing being you lose a whole season of eligibility for only playing half a season.

But since the semester started already it ain't going to happen.

Ivan Radinovich

[Postmaster]

On post game after Saturday's game CTL said that he has to determine when Ado's offense outweighs his defense.
So CTL is aware of ADO's defensive limitations.

You want to impress me Stevie? Take the wheel mother******.

I can help Lloyd with this and it’s really not that complicated.

If Arizona is playing a lousy offensive team who isn’t that athletic/strong/quick/aggressive on the perimeter and plays a ton of zone then, by all means, play ADO to your hearts content (see: Arizona vs CU, 2025).

If Arizona is playing a good offensive team that is athletic/strong/quick/aggressive on the perimeter and doesn’t play hardly any zone, well … this isn’t a game for ADO and you can’t play him hardly at all.

Lloyd knows this. He was playing the fools and homers in his press room with that comment. He simply hasn’t conceded it (his mistake) yet. Aside from his track record of playing ADO significantly fewer minutes vs these kinds of opponents as I show above.

10-1 !!!

To clarify, this was after the Colorado game, when he scored 20.

[Chicat]

What's funny to me... I feel in the past we have always complained about slow starts... and here we are with a much weaker starting 5... and it really hasn't been a problem. (so far)

Nothing in this world makes sense to me!

We average 1.98 points per minute in conference play overall.

According to your numbers, in the first five minutes of those games we averaged 1.84 points per minute.

If you remove the first five minutes of every game we average 2.1 points per minute for the rest of the game.

Those have been slow starts.

[EastCoastCat]

What's funny to me... I feel in the past we have always complained about slow starts... and here we are with a much weaker starting 5... and it really hasn't been a problem. (so far)

Nothing in this world makes sense to me!

We average 1.98 points per minute in conference play overall.

According to your numbers, in the first five minutes of those games we averaged 1.84 points per minute.

If you remove the first five minutes of every game we average 2.1 points per minute for the rest of the game.

Those have been slow starts.

Don’t you have to compare that to how many points per minute we are giving up?

A slow start is really if you fall behind like double digits by the second TV timeout. Not sure how often that has happened. Assuming you can’t have both a fast start AND a fast finish I’d rather be able to put the hammer down to close out games.

[Chicat]

What's funny to me... I feel in the past we have always complained about slow starts... and here we are with a much weaker starting 5... and it really hasn't been a problem. (so far)

Nothing in this world makes sense to me!

We average 1.98 points per minute in conference play overall.

According to your numbers, in the first five minutes of those games we averaged 1.84 points per minute.

If you remove the first five minutes of every game we average 2.1 points per minute for the rest of the game.

Those have been slow starts.

Don’t you have to compare that to how many points per minute we are giving up?

A slow start is really if you fall behind like double digits by the second TV timeout. Not sure how often that has happened. Assuming you can’t have both a fast start AND a fast finish I’d rather be able to put the hammer down to close out games.

To me the question isn’t “by what margin are we winning or losing by?” but “how many more points could we have scored in that first five minutes with a different starting lineup?”.

ADO and Townsend being in that first group means (from my estimation) easier shots for the opponent, less steals and live ball turnovers, and less rebounding, and therefore less opportunity to get out on the break for transition baskets. When KJ, Bryant, and Veesaar come in we play a much better version of Tommy Ball.

[dovecanyoncat]

I can kinda sorta see Tommy rolling the dice at the start, at 0-0, to see if we get lucky. But sticking with it at the start of the 2h is a head scratcher.

[TheCat]

Article from an ISU perspective

https://cyclonefanatic.com/2025/01/note ... ucson/amp/

Interesting question about fouling.

Up 3 points and 2.6 seconds left. Why foul a man 55+ feet away who contesting from the basket and put him in a spot 15 feet from the basket with no defender, and a set shot? Yes, only 2 free throws, but make the first, and bounce the 2nd high. Fran mentioned his teams practiced that.

So Otz made the right call, it just didn't work.

It was a lucky shot made about 5% of the time on either option. ISU played it as good as you could without taking the chance at fouling. I think their decision was the right one.

[TheCat]

What's funny to me... I feel in the past we have always complained about slow starts... and here we are with a much weaker starting 5... and it really hasn't been a problem. (so far)

Nothing in this world makes sense to me!

We average 1.98 points per minute in conference play overall.

According to your numbers, in the first five minutes of those games we averaged 1.84 points per minute.

If you remove the first five minutes of every game we average 2.1 points per minute for the rest of the game.

Those have been slow starts.

Don’t you have to compare that to how many points per minute we are giving up?

A slow start is really if you fall behind like double digits by the second TV timeout. Not sure how often that has happened. Assuming you can’t have both a fast start AND a fast finish I’d rather be able to put the hammer down to close out games.

To me the question isn’t “by what margin are we winning or losing by?” but “how many more points could we have scored in that first five minutes with a different starting lineup?”.

ADO and Townsend being in that first group means (from my estimation) easier shots for the opponent, less steals and live ball turnovers, and less rebounding, and therefore less opportunity to get out on the break for transition baskets. When KJ, Bryant, and Veesaar come in we play a much better version of Tommy Ball.

Well you and I might feel that way but someone took the time and posted the results of the first five minutes with ADO and it wasn't the reality that he is detrimental . Now if you are arguing we would have been better with another line up no one can dispute or prove that. If Carter makes some improvement in his defensive awareness I think he could help but really right now a taller ADO.

BYU has a kid named Catchings (sp) who could be Carter's twin. Good shot, slight of build not great on defense. Watched BYU's entire game against Baylor and they present a few matchup problems but so do we. They have their own Tobey only 2 inches shorter. They have a 6'10 point guard form Russia that can shoot an open shot but I don't think his handles will hold up against Bradley. They have a kind of junk yard dog type player (can't remember his name). He is scrappy, rebounds fairly effectively but drives into a crowd a lot. They have a rowdy home court with fans heavily involved. They also have something behind the basket that when shooting free throws is a bit disorienting and I actually wonder if it is legal.