Tommy Lloyd

[MrKyle]

I find it ironic that everyone comments on Delly's defense but no one talks about CB defense. CB is a ELITE shot blocker but his defense is not on par with his offense. He did not play well last night and his two goaltends were a gift to Oregon. I think his shot is one of the best I've seen at Arizona for awhile but I also think he needs to play a little better defense. Of course he is a freshman and the word defense is probably not in his vocabulary.

CB's defense is definitely a work in progress and he has struggled on that end for sure. He gets beat off the dribble quite a bit and due to his athleticism is able to recover and block from behind sometimes.

I think ADO's defense is criticized more (and more visible) because he lacks the athleticism that CB has to be able to recover from poor defense so once he's beat it is usually a done deal.

I really hope we get one more year of CB, think his freshman->soph jump would be huge.

ADO really showed up last night on the offensive side, that is what we need from him if he is going to be playing.

CTL made some great adjustments after Oregon came out of the gates on fire last night.

[Winger]

Ok if you’re still ok with Lloyd starting ADO and Townsend I am sorry but you are a fing idiot.

I’m ok with trusting Lloyd… the guy with I think the 2nd most wins ever in his 1st 4 years coaching

Does that make me a fucking idiot?

That was too harsh from me.

I was super pissed when it appeared that Lloyd had squandered away Arizona's 2nd round game by starting those 2 and going immediately in to a 19-4 hole. You can understand that Lloyd knows more than you about basketball and generally trust him but think for yourself at the same time. Those 2 "can't" play together and they frequently can't play at all, as manifest by the paltry minutes Lloyd frequently accords them outside of the 6 or so they get by starting/default.

You want me to break down the first say 15 possessions of the first half and show you all of their mistakes?

Shoot, possession #1 Altman clears out one side of the floor and runs ADO and TT into a perimeter screen and roll action on the other side and they completely blew the coverage leading to that initial unguarded slam dunk by the Ducks.

I am screaming at the clouds however because Lloyd is going to start them again Thursday I am sure.

Despite the fact that he could only find 4 minutes for ADO during Duke 1.

[Chicat]

You can understand that Lloyd knows more than you about basketball and generally trust him but think for yourself at the same time.

That’s it right there for me. And let’s not pretend that some of the same folks saying “trust Lloyd!!!” didn’t also question Sean Miller’s slow-it-down offense or Lute’s use of Jason Gardner to run the baseline and get stomped on by bigs in the 1-3-1.

Yes, coaches see things and know things about their team/players that even the most invested fans are not privy to. Doesn’t mean they don’t also have their blindspots or that they are infallible. So when you see ADO and TT start each half and you watch them give up easy shots and put us in a hole, it really is ok to use your own eyes and brain and say, hey… this doesn’t seem to be working no matter how many times Tommy goes back to this lineup.

[Winger]

I do wish Arizona would quick shrinking late. So many 6-7-8-9 point games become one possession games or worse

This is one facet where having a playmaking PG and the ability to run some structured offense comes in.

Free love it and you get things like 3FGA from Veesaar early in the shot clock and KJ dribble drives into traffic ...

It's a scoreboard activity however and Lloyd got Arizona across the finish line last night.

[gouacats]

I'm not saying I agree with him, but I think it's simple why Tommy is sticking with this starting lineup:

18-3 with this starting 5
6-9 with any other starting 5

[Alieberman]

I am screaming at the clouds however because Lloyd is going to start them again Thursday I am sure.

Despite the fact that he could only find 4 minutes for ADO during Duke 1.

I could be wrong about this (And feel free to correct me if I am). But during our early losing stretch (Have you heard that AZ started the season 4-5?) it seemed like we were competitive in most of those games but our guards especially faded late and looked fatigued.

Were they playing more minutes back then? (ADO playing a lot less)

We haven't been plagued with that for a long time. Could ADO's increased minutes actually be helping this fatigue factor for the rest of our guards in late game situations?

[UAEebs86]

I am screaming at the clouds however because Lloyd is going to start them again Thursday I am sure.

Despite the fact that he could only find 4 minutes for ADO during Duke 1.

I could be wrong about this (And feel free to correct me if I am). But during our early losing stretch (Have you heard that AZ started the season 4-5?) it seemed like we were competitive in most of those games but our guards especially faded late and looked fatigued.

Were they playing more minutes back then? (ADO playing a lot less)

We haven't been plagued with that for a long time. Could ADO's increased minutes actually be helping this fatigue factor for the rest of our guards in late game situations?

The guards had nothing left at the end of the B12 championship game so it didn't help there.

[Winger]

Just took a quick look A and no guard's minutes are significantly different now c/w that early season stretch save for KJ who is playing slightly fewer (I didn't calculate how many fewer). Unless I missed it.

[Alieberman]

I am screaming at the clouds however because Lloyd is going to start them again Thursday I am sure.

Despite the fact that he could only find 4 minutes for ADO during Duke 1.

I could be wrong about this (And feel free to correct me if I am). But during our early losing stretch (Have you heard that AZ started the season 4-5?) it seemed like we were competitive in most of those games but our guards especially faded late and looked fatigued.

Were they playing more minutes back then? (ADO playing a lot less)

We haven't been plagued with that for a long time. Could ADO's increased minutes actually be helping this fatigue factor for the rest of our guards in late game situations?

The guards had nothing left at the end of the B12 championship game so it didn't help there.

Well... that was the 3rd game in 3 days against arguably the best team in the country!

[Alieberman]

Just took a quick look A and no guard's minutes are significantly different now c/w that early season stretch save for KJ who is playing slightly fewer (I didn't calculate how many fewer). Unless I missed it.

Thanks for looking that up.

I do expect (hope) to see KJ and CB playing BIG minutes vs Duke

[dovecanyoncat]

Within the absolute limits of our roster Tommy must see trade-offs that he's trying to optimize. Meanwhile it makes me crazy when ADO is on the floor and my eyes just. have. to. watch him. I'm not only largely ignorant at basketball Xs and Os, I'm a lunatic participant in the optical moment when Delly is swimming around like a confused fish. That sure ain't Tommy's fault.

[pc in NM]

Within the absolute limits of our roster Tommy must see trade-offs that he's trying to optimize. Meanwhile it makes me crazy when ADO is on the floor and my eyes just. have. to. watch him. I'm not only largely ignorant at basketball Xs and Os, I'm a lunatic participant in the optical moment when Delly is swimming around like a confused fish. That sure ain't Tommy's fault.

No, it's not "Xs and Os"...

... You apparently don't understand game flow, and don't appreciate the "intangibles" ADO contributes (e, g,. ball movement, spacing, etc.) which establish a pattern for the offense, but don't make stats, or capture the fans' eyes.

His minutes vary, and yes. that's sometimes because of his defensive liabilities. When he plays fewer than 10 minutes, that stretches our 8-man rotation, especially when TT also gets fewer minutes.

Against Duke, we HOPE he earns 10 or more minutes, but Duke has great offense.

But remember. when we played Duke in the Fall, that was BEFORE CTL inserted ADO into the starting lineup, and the season turned around.

ADO, TT, CB & Henri will all be challenged to "rise to the occasion", like never before!!!

AND WE ALL SHOULD BE CHEERING EACH ONE OF THEM IN EVERY MINUTE THEY PLAY!!!

Or, in other words 'Cat fans, BTFD!!!!

[azcat49]

I know CTL prides himself in his development of his bigs but while we all rave about how much HV has improved this year, I think the progress Awaka has made from Tennessee to now is absolutely amazing.

He was a nothing burger at Tennessee past a few put backs. He has improved his footwork, his touch with both hands and even has a decent J to the elbow.

I happen to think he is very important this Thursday. He needs to lean and grind on their 5 who is really good. We need that guy worn out from the toughness TA always brings.

Well done coaching staff with TA

[JMarkJohns]

I'm not saying I agree with him, but I think it's simple why Tommy is sticking with this starting lineup:

18-3 with this starting 5
6-9 with any other starting 5

From a complementary skills standpoint this starting 5 is solid. I’d bury Trey and only use ADO for specific offensive possessions/stretches.

But Lewis off the bench with Carter and Henri allows motor combined with versatility and shooting. ADO with the starters allows highest upside shooting alongside more traditional bigs and ball-dominant guards.

The skills make sense, but they need a major talent/upside upgrade.

[Merkin]

I find it ironic that everyone comments on Delly's defense but no one talks about CB defense. CB is a ELITE shot blocker but his defense is not on par with his offense. He did not play well last night and his two goaltends were a gift to Oregon. I think his shot is one of the best I've seen at Arizona for awhile but I also think he needs to play a little better defense. Of course he is a freshman and the word defense is probably not in his vocabulary.

I agree that CB is really awkward on defense, but he has the potential to be very good. ADO is as good on defense as he is ever going to be.

[JMarkJohns]

CB is exactly what most athletic lanky freshman are on D, which is risk takers and they think a steal or a block equates to D.

There may also be some lateral mobility challenges or “muscled down” issues from being an under-developed combo-forward at a young age in a physical league.

But some of this is also Lloyd being too committed to the idea of winning the process suffers and Bryant not being in enough in coachable moments to be coached up throughout the season. His second block off the backboard vs Oregon was a typical “momentum power block” that misread both trajectory and the moment. This stems from wanting to make the most impact in the shortest amount of time, which is typically something that happens when prospects can’t play through mistakes.

Now Lloyd has given him a leash recently which has been important. But how much better would Carter be in shot-making and defensive recognition if he was given 5-7+ more minutes during the regular season and the ball put in his hands or him put on a defensive island and told to defend without risk to figure out how?

We are seeing a microcosm of this in NBA with Suns. Bud benched Dunn for months because Suns needed immediate wins and it backfired. Now Dunn is a catalyst for Suns recent strength of play and is being allowed to play through mistakes because the positives outweigh negatives and Suns are winning.

Play the upside. Position it well.

[pc in NM]

I find it ironic that everyone comments on Delly's defense but no one talks about CB defense. CB is a ELITE shot blocker but his defense is not on par with his offense. He did not play well last night and his two goaltends were a gift to Oregon. I think his shot is one of the best I've seen at Arizona for awhile but I also think he needs to play a little better defense. Of course he is a freshman and the word defense is probably not in his vocabulary.

I agree that CB is really awkward on defense, but he has the potential to be very good. ADO is as good on defense as he is ever going to be.

So what?

Does ANYONE believe that Arizona would have had a better season if ADO sat on the bench all year? Your choice here is between CTL and amateur fans.

I'm with CTL.

[CalStateTempe]

Clutch post Jmark, thank you

[JMarkJohns]

I find it ironic that everyone comments on Delly's defense but no one talks about CB defense. CB is a ELITE shot blocker but his defense is not on par with his offense. He did not play well last night and his two goaltends were a gift to Oregon. I think his shot is one of the best I've seen at Arizona for awhile but I also think he needs to play a little better defense. Of course he is a freshman and the word defense is probably not in his vocabulary.

I agree that CB is really awkward on defense, but he has the potential to be very good. ADO is as good on defense as he is ever going to be.

So what?

Does ANYONE believe that Arizona would have had a better season if ADO sat on the bench all year? Your choice here is between CTL and amateur fans.

I'm with CTL.

For what it’s worth I advocated for Del’Orso replacing Lewis in starting lineup because Bradley needed spacing and Lewis was better in the margins.

So, yeah, I was very happy when he made that switch, even if it meant hurting Defense, threat of perimeter shooting is vital when your 4 other starters are all iffy from range.

Team shouldn’t be in a position where ADO is their starting lineup savior. More shooting at every position. Guard, Wing, Big.

That fixes the “both sides” conundrum.

[ZagCatFan]

Congrats CTL nice win over Ducks….now go slay the dragon!

[RichardCranium]

Man… usually we don’t get to this level of arguing until we get bounced from the tournament

We are stepping up…

Yeah, but I've got a monoply on popcorn, so I'm enjoying the heck out of it.

And just for more shots and giggles, not EVERYONE got the overall season prediction wrong. I, who know nothing at all, said in several places (not here, I'm too chickenshit) that Az was ranked too high and Kansas was ranked way too high, absurdly too high, in the preseason polls.

So there. Blblblblbl.

[TheCat]

You can understand that Lloyd knows more than you about basketball and generally trust him but think for yourself at the same time.

That’s it right there for me. And let’s not pretend that some of the same folks saying “trust Lloyd!!!” didn’t also question Sean Miller’s slow-it-down offense or Lute’s use of Jason Gardner to run the baseline and get stomped on by bigs in the 1-3-1.

Yes, coaches see things and know things about their team/players that even the most invested fans are not privy to. Doesn’t mean they don’t also have their blindspots or that they are infallible. So when you see ADO and TT start each half and you watch them give up easy shots and put us in a hole, it really is ok to use your own eyes and brain and say, hey… this doesn’t seem to be working no matter how many times Tommy goes back to this lineup.

Nothing to argue about here but I would think that the record with that starting lineup should be another consideration. The most important one. I don't know if KJ is better after watching 4 minutes of action and that is why he wanted to come off the bench. I don't know if the coaches are pointing out to CB what they are seeing and what he should be doing defensively what shots should be open to him. The one thing I'm sure of is there is no motivation for Tommy to put out the guys that don't give the team the best chance to win. He is betting a lot more that his instincts are right. He is betting his job and opening himself up to criticism and second guessing. Folks on here say it is ego or he is being stubborn. Does anyone on here think that Tommy has an over inflated ego when he can't get out of a presser fast enough, when he constantly says you should be talking to the players, when he says that he is still learning as a coach, when he says that the players tonight were better than the coaching, that he has given credit multiple times to Sean for not leaving the cupboard bare. I don't understand his decisions.....but Tommy does and I trust him to do what is right for the team regardless if I understand it or not. He has earned that grace from me. I mean he is only the second winniest coach in NCAA history after 4 years. Remarkable feat.

[Winger]

Lloyd does not lack for confidence. That may be slightly different from “ego” but he is not the aw-shucks I don’t even deserve to be here guy some portray him to be. Early on someone was talking to him about Miller and said something like “you have big shoes to fill” and his response was “I have big feet”.

The issue isn’t ADO. Ok, well, its kind of ADO, but its really starting him alongside Townsend. And especially in 2nd halves of games in which they have already shown that they can’t play. ADO because he cant defend at this level. And Townsend because he cant defend and his interior offensive game doesnt translate to this level.

Even the W-L record since ADO started has an *. Arizona was 4-5 when he was placed in to the lineup. But, 3 of those 5 losses were vs KP #22, #13, and #1 teams.

Arizona is 20-7 since. But its record vs teams in the KP top 25 is: 4-6. And, 11 of those 20 wins are to teams ranked outside of the top 50.

Better. But a 9 game OOC run with 3 neutral site games in 3 days, a true roadie vs the nation’s 13th best team, and a contest in PHX vs top 25 UCLA (which we should have won) is a limited data set and its not like Arizona ran the table from Samford onward.

I think something Lloyd might say to you regarding starting ADO and Townsend might be: “Look I have to play those guys some minutes or we will collapse at the end of games. Possessions at the beginning of halves have the same exact value as possessions at other times of the game. It doesnt make any difference when they get their possessions.”

Its hard for me to put aside what I saw Duke do to Arizona in person but one huge key to this game is going to be minutes.

3 guys whom we currently rely on significantly or start went for 4 minutes (ADO), 12 min (Awaka), and 13 minutes (Veesaar). Another guy who we frequently dont play all that much went for 27 min (Townsend) and another guy who played 21 min isnt available (Krivas).

Regardless of who starts, the Cats are going to have to get some productive minutes out of guys who didn’t give Lloyd much vs Duke game 1.

[CalStateTempe]

Winger - let’s play some fan fiction , who gets to a ff first? CTL at Arizona or SM are Texas?

I too never bought into the “aw shucks, I’m just happy to be here persona”. This post season I think we l are starting to see the subtle competitive competence that drives CTL.

[EastCoastCat]

Lloyd does not lack for confidence. That may be slightly different from “ego” but he is not the aw-shucks I don’t even deserve to be here guy some portray him to be.

To be clear we nicknamed CTL the "Awe Shucks Assassin".

[TheCat]

He does NOT lack confidence. He just recognizes the contribution of others and their relative value to the team. The opposite of Mick Cronin.

[Winger]

Winger - let’s play some fan fiction , who gets to a ff first? CTL at Arizona or SM are Texas?

I too never bought into the “aw shucks, I’m just happy to be here persona”. This post season I think we l are starting to see the subtle competitive competence that drives CTL.

1. That is a tough one and I am too biased for an honest answer. I'd go with who knows on who gets there first but imo it's more likely Lloyd at Arizona does it more than once than Miller at Texas. Shoot, if Miller doesn't continually bring in elite talent I wouldn't be surprised to see him not make it in Austin.

2. I didn't know this place had an aw shucks nickname for Lloyd. I came up with a lot of nicknames for lots of things OTOS. Until they were banned. Which I am pretty certain was because of me. Or, at least Scheer nuked them immediately after I started calling Parker Jackson Cartwright "Hoss".

[Postmaster]

I feel like I've seen the Hoss nickname here, also. Maybe over there when there was free material.



David Kelly played a clip of a question he asked CTL yesterday.

Paraphrasing: "He said a lot of people in Tucson were curious why Awaka sat for 8 minutes at end of game. Could you explain your reasoning?"

Before he could finish the question, CTL Answered (again, paraphrasing)
"David, we are in the sweet 16! We have a lineup that we use at end of games."
Let's talk about being in sweet 16"

You could tell CTL does not like his decisions questioned.

[dovecanyoncat]

Tommy also has learned, through dealing with Columbo, to cut off a question by about 30%. Bruce can't bring himself to finish a sentence without backing up 6 times, so Tommy just jumps in. But other reporters don't necessarily deserve/get the same treatment.

[EastCoastCat]

Tommy is fed up with Bruce understandably.

His questions are not only moronic but he keeps asking the same “what if” questions that he should know by now what Tommy’s answer will be.

[Winger]

I feel like I've seen the Hoss nickname here, also. Maybe over there when there was free material.



David Kelly played a clip of a question he asked CTL yesterday.

Paraphrasing: "He said a lot of people in Tucson were curious why Awaka sat for 8 minutes at end of game. Could you explain your reasoning?"

Before he could finish the question, CTL Answered (again, paraphrasing)
"David, we are in the sweet 16! We have a lineup that we use at end of games."
Let's talk about being in sweet 16"

You could tell CTL does not like his decisions questioned.

So when I came up with Hoss and mind you this is well after other more inflammatory gems like DeathStick (Tollefson), the MDO (Miller Dickaround Offense), Fibanacci (Ira Lee), etc. the site banned nicknames about a half hour later. I always assumed Parker's mom or dad were pissed.

Lloyd could have handled that better:

David Kelly: "a lot of people in Tucson were curious why Awaka sat for 8 minutes at end of game. Could you explain your reasoning?"

Tommy Lloyd: "I was trying to not hide Henri."

[EastCoastCat]

What he should have said is there’s certain things that HV adds to the flow of the offense that he liked and didn’t want to disrupt that.

That would have been fine.

[Winger]

I was trying to be funny. Riffing off of the prior presser when one of the reporters alleged that he was hiding Henri (from the NBA) by limiting his minutes. My delivery sucks.

[Postmaster]

I was trying to be funny. Riffing off of the prior presser when one of the reporters alleged that he was hiding Henri (from the NBA) by limiting his minutes. My delivery sucks.

I got it.

CTL really came across as "don't question me" IMO.
My daughter and I were recently talking about how CTL comes across as "aw shucks" when he is free flowing. But when people question his decisions he is a bit of an ass.

I don't get "Fibonacci".

I always used to say "nobody doesn't like, Ira Lee."

[Chicat]

How do you ban nicknames?

[CalStateTempe]

MDO is perfect

[TheCat]

You haven't seen his offense in awhile if you think that. In his Texas press conference they were referring to him during Q&A as an offensive coach. He said that 3-4 years ago it would be the opposite.

[CalStateTempe]

He’s still a micromanaging prick

[Chicat]

He’s still a micromanaging prick

I will never understand your hate for the man.

Say what you will about your quibbles with his coaching style, ALL Sean Miller wanted was to bring a national championship to Tucson and to the fans. It consumed him. For that reason alone, he’s got a place in my heart.

[Alieberman]

He’s still a micromanaging prick

I will never understand your hate for the man.

Say what you will about your quibbles with his coaching style, ALL Sean Miller wanted was to bring a national championship to Tucson and to the fans. It consumed him. For that reason alone, he’s got a place in my heart.

I certainly don't have the hatred of CSM that CST has but every time I think about how much I liked him as our coach... I still can never forgive him for continuing to sit a rapist on our bench.... on the same bench as the brother of the victim sat... its repulsive

[Chicat]

He’s still a micromanaging prick

I will never understand your hate for the man.

Say what you will about your quibbles with his coaching style, ALL Sean Miller wanted was to bring a national championship to Tucson and to the fans. It consumed him. For that reason alone, he’s got a place in my heart.

I certainly don't have the hatred of CSM that CST has but every time I think about how much I liked him as our coach... I still can never forgive him for continuing to sit a rapist on our bench.... on the same bench as the brother of the victim sat... its repulsive

Can’t deny that. It definitely puts a(nother) stain on his legacy.

[CalStateTempe]

That’s it for me Ari - SM just oozes lack of institutional control, or least he did for the second half of his tenure at UofA. IMO, Arizona BB is very lucky to have survived everything that it had to deal with those last 5-6 years.

Add that to, at the time, his inability /unwillingness to grow as a coach, and then know saying how he’s reformed….to me it’s just grating.

[EastCoastCat]

Nice recruiting get today Awe Shucks Assassin!

[UAEebs86]

Can we start calling him a witch yet?

[Alieberman]

Nice recruiting get today Awe Shucks Assassin!

But I thought Tommy can’t recruit, build a team, coach or figure out a starting lineup?

[EastCoastCat]

Nice recruiting get today Awe Shucks Assassin!

But I thought Tommy can’t recruit, build a team, coach or figure out a starting lineup?

Guess not. But we all know opinions are like assholes...

[azgreg]

Can we start calling him a witch yet?

Let's wait on Burries first.

[pc in NM]

Nice recruiting get today Awe Shucks Assassin!

But I thought Tommy can’t recruit, build a team, coach or figure out a starting lineup?

Guess not. But we all know opinions are like assholes...

Peat should be a good sub for ADO, eh???

[EastCoastCat]

Nice recruiting get today Awe Shucks Assassin!

But I thought Tommy can’t recruit, build a team, coach or figure out a starting lineup?

Guess not. But we all know opinions are like assholes...

Peat should be a good sub for ADO, eh???

Who knows? They both could be starting!

[LuteIsGod]

He’s still a micromanaging prick

I will never understand your hate for the man.

Say what you will about your quibbles with his coaching style, ALL Sean Miller wanted was to bring a national championship to Tucson and to the fans. It consumed him. For that reason alone, he’s got a place in my heart.

I certainly don't have the hatred of CSM that CST has but every time I think about how much I liked him as our coach... I still can never forgive him for continuing to sit a rapist on our bench.... on the same bench as the brother of the victim sat... its repulsive

Who?