Cats can't compete regularly in recruiting with the big schools & their money

[Chicat]

We're not even competitive with Kansas State.

Oh, were we competing with KState for Hawkins? Glad we lost that battle.

Or is it your contention that we should be throwing $2M at middling players so we can finish 10th in the conference?

You really aren't very bright, are you??

The point I am making is that KSU has $2M to cough up.....just for one player. The UA is not in that league.
It points to how hard it is going to be for UA football/basketball coaches to compete in this new environment.

You’re really a sad sack, aren’t you?

You don’t know what percentage of their total budget went to that one player and you have no goddamn idea of their NIL for basketball this year was larger than ours. But because you get an erection every time you get the opportunity to spread some doom and gloom, here you are… even if the results say that we’d ALL rather have our team than theirs.

[dmjcat]

We're not even competitive with Kansas State.

Oh, were we competing with KState for Hawkins? Glad we lost that battle.

Or is it your contention that we should be throwing $2M at middling players so we can finish 10th in the conference?

You really aren't very bright, are you??

The point I am making is that KSU has $2M to cough up.....just for one player. The UA is not in that league.
It points to how hard it is going to be for UA football/basketball coaches to compete in this new environment.

You’re really a sad sack, aren’t you?

You don’t know what percentage of their total budget went to that one player and you have no goddamn idea of their NIL for basketball this year was larger than ours. But because you get an erection every time you get the opportunity to spread some doom and gloom, here you are… even if the results say that we’d ALL rather have our team than theirs.

No, just realistic without my head sticking up my ass like you.

Regarding KSU's NIL budget please tell us all about it. I'm sure you are a message board expert on the subject.

Even a 6th grader with limited intelligence can deduce that if KSU can pay one player 3 times what we are paying Caleb Love then there is a obvious gap between the programs. But then again, you don't match up with the average 6th grader.

[Chicat]

Regarding KSU's NIL budget please tell us all about it.

So you have no clue. That tracks.

[Merkin]

Hope he banked that money, he probably played himself out of the draft.

[dmjcat]

Regarding KSU's NIL budget please tell us all about it.

So you have no clue. That tracks.

I certainly have more than a few clues that you aren't too bright.

But I already knew that.

[Chicat]

Whoa, sick burn. Glad you didn’t hit me with a “I know you are but what am I?”. I may have never recovered.

[EastCoastCat]

[dmjcat]

Whoa, sick burn. Glad you didn’t hit me with a “I know you are but what am I?”. I may have never recovered.

Too bad I'm living in your head rent free. Its a really low-rent area.

Come back if you want to get owned some more.

[Chicat]

if KSU can pay one player 3 times what we are paying Caleb Love then there is a obvious gap between the programs.

Just to bring it back to your assumptions here, but you do realize that Caleb’s NIL is coming from one donor and it was just to bring Caleb back, right? This wasn’t money that was earmarked to go elsewhere and then Tommy and the staff decided to spend it on Love. You do know that, right?

Assuming you do know that, I’m curious why that is your comparison? What that one booster worked out with Love had no bearing on the rest of our NIL. On top of that, there was no talk of UA being in on Hawkins so it’s not like we were outbid for him.

So what’s your point? Arizona didn’t make a bad call by throwing $2M at a guy who would not have improved our team and would have made the PF/C a logjam? Or that Arizona successfully spread their NIL budget around to get the guys who transferred in and to pay the ones already here?

You just assumed that KState has more NIL money because you saw Hawkins’s price tag. What you don’t seem to have considered was what else they needed. Were they able to get those pieces? Was that $2M an actual wise investment? Could they have spread that money around and picked up 3-4 guys that would have helped more? The knee-jerk reaction to what Hawkins got paid is like crying because your neighbor bought a corvette when what he really needed was a minivan and then feeling sorry for yourself and your inability to make the same purchase while his family starves.

[dmjcat]

if KSU can pay one player 3 times what we are paying Caleb Love then there is a obvious gap between the programs.

Just to bring it back to your assumptions here, but you do realize that Caleb’s NIL is coming from one donor and it was just to bring Caleb back, right? This wasn’t money that was earmarked to go elsewhere and then Tommy and the staff decided to spend it on Love. You do know that, right?

Assuming you do know that, I’m curious why that is your comparison? What that one booster worked out with Love had no bearing on the rest of our NIL. On top of that, there was no talk of UA being in on Hawkins so it’s not like we were outbid for him.

So what’s your point? Arizona didn’t make a bad call by throwing $2M at a guy who would not have improved our team and would have made the PF/C a logjam? Or that Arizona successfully spread their NIL budget around to get the guys who transferred in and to pay the ones already here?

You just assumed that KState has more NIL money because you saw Hawkins’s price tag. What you don’t seem to have considered was what else they needed. Were they able to get those pieces? Was that $2M an actual wise investment? Could they have spread that money around and picked up 3-4 guys that would have helped more? The knee-jerk reaction to what Hawkins got paid is like crying because your neighbor bought a corvette when what he really needed was a minivan and then feeling sorry for yourself and your inability to make the same purchase while his family starves.

My God you are dense.

For the 3rd time I was merely pointing out that KSUI is forking over 3X what we are paying our highest NIL player, and that this sort of thing is going to be next to impossible for the UA to ever match.

Serious question: Are you bipolar by any chance?

[Merkin]

Just wanted to add that no one knows how much anyone makes in NIL, those are all private contracts outside the realm of universities where all state schools have public finance laws. These are just numbers leaked out by agents trying to recruit more players to their fold.

And even if they did pay him $2M, don't you think KSU regrets it? Ending up 16-17.

He just ended up being the last decent big in the portal and they ended up winning, or perhaps losing, the bidding war.

UA can't compete with that!

[84Cat]

Indiana didn't make the tournament either

[dovecanyoncat]

NIL$ is sorta like Dark Pool stock market transactions.

[Chicat]

Serious question: Are you bipolar by any chance?

Seriously tired of the personal attacks. If you can’t discuss and disagree like an adult, you can fuck off. It’s not my fault you make shitty arguments that have no basis in fact and then get butthurt when I point out that your logic is flawed.

Congrats, you know that $2M is more than $750k. Basic math is actually within your mental capabilities! But you still don’t know whether KSU’s NIL is more than Arizona’s. All you’ve established is that Arizona used their NIL with better effect and had a better season. You’re acting like KSU got Hawkins and dominated the league. So fucking dumb.

[Merkin]

All you’ve established is that Arizona used their NIL with better effect and had a better season. You’re acting like KSU got Hawkins and dominated the league. So fucking dumb.

[dmjcat]

Serious question: Are you bipolar by any chance?

Seriously tired of the personal attacks. If you can’t discuss and disagree like an adult, you can fuck off. It’s not my fault you make shitty arguments that have no basis in fact and then get butthurt when I point out that your logic is flawed.

Congrats, you know that $2M is more than $750k. Basic math is actually within your mental capabilities! But you still don’t know whether KSU’s NIL is more than Arizona’s. All you’ve established is that Arizona used their NIL with better effect and had a better season. You’re acting like KSU got Hawkins and dominated the league. So fucking dumb.

LOL, I never said anything of the sort.

Congratulations on proving once again that you have the reading comprehension of a pre-schooler coupled with the IQ of a radish.

[AZCatGirl]

Then why are you making such a big deal out of K-State wasting $2 million? Ever think we could spend that if we wanted to but we aren't as dumb as them?

[EastCoastCat]

I have no idea how this even turned into an argument. A lot like some of the conversations with my wife…

[azgreg]

Another way to look at it is maybe schools like KSU just have to pay more than other schools for the same player.

[Chicat]

I have no idea how this even turned into an argument.

That’s easy…

Some people see a player getting a huge deal and run here to tell us that Arizona is DOOMED because we can’t compete in this new NIL era.

Other people then ask questions like was that player worth that amount? Were we after that player or could we have used him? How did the school handing out such large sums do with that player? Did Arizona actually lose out by not offering that amount or did they do better spreading it around? And then the first people get all hurt that someone would dare question their doom & gloom proclamation and start calling those other people stupid, because they are big ol’ babies throwing tantrums.

I personally don’t think any player should be getting $2M+ unless they are a generational talent (Flagg) AND there are already the pieces on the team to complete a winning squad and still compete if that player gets hurt.

I’m not jealous of KSU. They did it wrong. I’m jealous of Duke. Tell me we can’t compete with the Blue Devils for top end recruits and I have no choice but to agree. Tell me we can’t compete with Kansas State and I’m going to laugh in your face.

[dovecanyoncat]

Price is what you pay.
Value is what you get.

[gronk4heisman]

LOL, I never said anything of the sort.

Congratulations on proving once again that you have the reading comprehension of a pre-schooler coupled with the IQ of a radish.

Your constant need to degrade someone else's intelligence to feel good about yourself says all I need to know about your own personal intelligence.

It is well known that Tommy doesn't like to overpay for players because of the potential chemistry issues that causes, mix that with the fact that your whole argument is based on a team we were way better than this year with our roster of pretty good players. We probably way overpaid for Trey Townsend and were still able to compete. The fact that we are in the recruiting battles for Peat and Burries who is a known bag chaser goes against your whole argument (really this is all you ever talk about on this board, is this really the only thing you can add?) as well, either that or Tommy also has the IQ of a radish wasting his time on those recruitments.

[dmjcat]

Back to the issue at hand, an important date is coming up regarding paying college athletes.

This is an interesting read. One point that is brought up which I had not considered is the possibility of NFL athletes returning to play at the college level if they are cut from an NFL team.

https://www.athleticbusiness.com/operat ... settlement

[azcat49]

College sports is gone for sure if that happens (already gone really). Sad sad sad period. Just another level of professional sports.

[EastCoastCat]

So how much do we guess is in our NIL pool for basketball - north or south of $2M?

[Chicat]

So how much do we guess is in our NIL pool for basketball - north or south of $2M?

North

[dirtbags]

Back to the issue at hand, an important date is coming up regarding paying college athletes.

This is an interesting read. One point that is brought up which I had not considered is the possibility of NFL athletes returning to play at the college level if they are cut from an NFL team.

https://www.athleticbusiness.com/operat ... settlement

thanks for sharing this - good stuff. though there are few instances & professions where a salaried employee can quit and then change their mind and instantly go back to their former employer and get their job back, it's probably just a matter of time before it happens in football or mbb/wbb. it's happening already in other sports. in wrestling, gable steveson won his first ncaa medal in 2019 and went on to win the 2020 olympics. he moved on to the wwe, failed as a pro (fake) wrestler, signed with the bills, failed as an nfl player, and is now back at the university of minnesota competing against 18-22 year old kids for an ncaa title this week. which also reminds me that it's also just a matter of time before the concept of eligibility goes away in D1 sports. :\

[dirtbags]

College sports is gone for sure if that happens (already gone really). Sad sad sad period. Just another level of professional sports.

agreed. credit to the ivies for opting-out of big money sports & the pay-to-play model and committing to the student athlete experience, but they obv have leverage that most other division I do not.

[Merkin]

College sports is gone for sure if that happens (already gone really). Sad sad sad period. Just another level of professional sports.

agreed. credit to the ivies for opting-out of big money sports & the pay-to-play model and committing to the student athlete experience, but they obv have leverage that most other division I do not.

Harvard is free for any student whose family makes less than $200K a year.

[dirtbags]

NIL$ is sorta like Dark Pool stock market transactions.

yeah, NIL is so laissez-faire and unregulated that i'm kinda surprised it hasn't started to eat itself. i feel like there have been a bunch of stuff in the news about athletes saying they're not getting paid, like the unlv QB or the rumors at asu.

conversely, i'm convinced that there's a complete lack of auditing & accountability on athletes fulfilling their end of NIL deals, esp with money coming from collectives. the whole system is kind of a joke and is turning college sports into a shell of what it once was.

[dovecanyoncat]

NIL$ is sorta like Dark Pool stock market transactions.

yeah, NIL is so laissez-faire and unregulated that i'm kinda surprised it hasn't started to eat itself. i feel like there have been a bunch of stuff in the news about athletes saying they're not getting paid, like the unlv QB or the rumors at asu.

conversely, i'm convinced that there's a complete lack of auditing & accountability on athletes fulfilling their end of NIL deals, esp with money coming from collectives. the whole system is kind of a joke and is turning college sports into a shell of what it once was.

One would think that given the sums of $ involved eventually lawsuits would occur. Once the lawyers get involved roping in as many litigants as possible a structural evolution would take place, and maybe some transparency would result. I don't know a thing about it other than what I read here.

[dmjcat]

So how much do we guess is in our NIL pool for basketball - north or south of $2M?

Nobody really knows as that information is not public. I have seen several estimates/claims on multiple message boards and none of them match.

This is the only discussion of the issue that I have seen publicly. The fact that CTL doesn't like talking about NIL doesn't give me the warm and fuzzies. Most coaches will large NIL budgets are not afraid to brag about it........it helps get recruits.

https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildca ... 0adb4.html

[Merkin]

Congress has to get involved in order to clarify the issue. Ted Cruz has a bill pending, with some support, but not a high priority (biting my tongue).

If student-athletes, errr, I mean professional athletes at an university pretending to be students, are to become paid employees, then their salaries are public records, at least in state schools. Since their NIL money is for performance for the university, then those contracts should be public records also.

Saw earlier that the CFB video game is paying each athlete $1500, that's pretty cool.

[84Cat]

Basketball-centric schools without football may soon gain major advantage. Here's how.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/c ... 539403007/

[dirtbags]

yahoo! sports reporter shared some notes from today's house settlement hearing:

The House settlement hearing is on lunch break two hours into what will likely be a six to seven hour proceeding. Most interesting notes from Judge Claudia Wilken:

- she suggested a phase-in for roster limits
- she suggested collective bargaining is a better way to establish a compensation cap but that's not part of the House case
- her biggest issue in the settlement, it seems, is binding future athletes to the 10-year deal
- she is not leaning toward blessing the NCAA's current rules as part of the settlement approval
- she has talked positively about the high number of athletes who have filed claims for the back-pay

[dmjcat]

yahoo! sports reporter shared some notes from today's house settlement hearing:

The House settlement hearing is on lunch break two hours into what will likely be a six to seven hour proceeding. Most interesting notes from Judge Claudia Wilken:

- she suggested a phase-in for roster limits
- she suggested collective bargaining is a better way to establish a compensation cap but that's not part of the House case
- her biggest issue in the settlement, it seems, is binding future athletes to the 10-year deal
- she is not leaning toward blessing the NCAA's current rules as part of the settlement approval
- she has talked positively about the high number of athletes who have filed claims for the back-pay

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/sto ... t-concerns

[dirtbags]

yahoo! sports reporter shared some notes from today's house settlement hearing:

The House settlement hearing is on lunch break two hours into what will likely be a six to seven hour proceeding. Most interesting notes from Judge Claudia Wilken:

- she suggested a phase-in for roster limits
- she suggested collective bargaining is a better way to establish a compensation cap but that's not part of the House case
- her biggest issue in the settlement, it seems, is binding future athletes to the 10-year deal
- she is not leaning toward blessing the NCAA's current rules as part of the settlement approval
- she has talked positively about the high number of athletes who have filed claims for the back-pay

https://www.espn.com/college-sports/sto ... t-concerns

thanks! i think i read somewhere that they'll reconvene in a week after both sides have had some time to think on wilken's questions, is that right? feels like there are a lot of details yet to iron out before she the case can be settled, like the scope and legality of the NIL clearinghouse, for example. it feels like there will be more lawsuits no matter what happens.

[pc in NM]

What do you all make of this revenue-sharing information?

“If approved, schools will be permitted to directly pay athletes through about $20.5 million in revenue sharing during the 2025-26 athletic year.

“In addition, nearly $2.8 billion will be set aside as back-pay damages for athletes dating back to 2016 who did not have the opportunity to be compensated for their name, image and likeness.”

If a version of that deal goes through, pending Wilken’s few remaining questions during a follow-up next week, amateurism will no longer be the Division I business model. (Non-scholarship programs in Division III and elsewhere: proceed as normal.) This would be a truly new era. The portal and NIL have felt revolutionary, but they just expanded and codified things that had always been happening. Schools paying players actual money? That would be new.

Power programs had already been operating as if this settlement will happen. SEC schools, for instance, are expected to distribute their $20.5 million budgets by adapting the settlement’s back-pay formula: “75 percent to football players, 15 percent for men’s basketball, 5 percent for women’s basketball and 5 percent for others.” (Player payments in those first three would average in the low six figures or high fives, along with scholarships and NIL.)

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/626495 ... dailyemail

And, Arizona (as far as I can locate):

Barnes told me, in a very unhappy tone, that the UA women’s basketball team is projected to receive just 2% of next year’s $20 million revenue-sharing money, about $400,000, which means she would have difficulty competing in the NIL/free agent market. But that’s reality. Two percent is probably what most women’s basketball programs will receive.

The UA has revealed that Tommy Lloyd‘s men’s basketball team will receive about 21% of the revenue sharing, or about $4.2 million. The football program will get about 70%, or $15 million. Those are identical to the numbers Big 12 rival Texas Tech made public recently.

That leaves about 10% to divide between baseball, softball and women’s basketball.

https://tucson.com/sports/subscriber/ar ... the-latest

[ChooChooCat]

What do you all make of this revenue-sharing information?

“If approved, schools will be permitted to directly pay athletes through about $20.5 million in revenue sharing during the 2025-26 athletic year.

“In addition, nearly $2.8 billion will be set aside as back-pay damages for athletes dating back to 2016 who did not have the opportunity to be compensated for their name, image and likeness.”

If a version of that deal goes through, pending Wilken’s few remaining questions during a follow-up next week, amateurism will no longer be the Division I business model. (Non-scholarship programs in Division III and elsewhere: proceed as normal.) This would be a truly new era. The portal and NIL have felt revolutionary, but they just expanded and codified things that had always been happening. Schools paying players actual money? That would be new.

Power programs had already been operating as if this settlement will happen. SEC schools, for instance, are expected to distribute their $20.5 million budgets by adapting the settlement’s back-pay formula: “75 percent to football players, 15 percent for men’s basketball, 5 percent for women’s basketball and 5 percent for others.” (Player payments in those first three would average in the low six figures or high fives, along with scholarships and NIL.)

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/626495 ... dailyemail

And, Arizona (as far as I can locate):

Barnes told me, in a very unhappy tone, that the UA women’s basketball team is projected to receive just 2% of next year’s $20 million revenue-sharing money, about $400,000, which means she would have difficulty competing in the NIL/free agent market. But that’s reality. Two percent is probably what most women’s basketball programs will receive.

The UA has revealed that Tommy Lloyd‘s men’s basketball team will receive about 21% of the revenue sharing, or about $4.2 million. The football program will get about 70%, or $15 million. Those are identical to the numbers Big 12 rival Texas Tech made public recently.

That leaves about 10% to divide between baseball, softball and women’s basketball.

https://tucson.com/sports/subscriber/ar ... the-latest

I think Arizona is doing exactly what it should be doing to survive in the sports that matter most. They also made a great women's basketball hire today.

[dmjcat]

The insanity is getting worse by the day

[Postmaster]

$400000 for WBB. Does that get split between each player equally? This isn't NIL, where it is outside of the school.


Seems dumb that schools have to pay "back pay" for players who couldn't get NIL, since NIL is money outside of the school.

[pc in NM]

Here's what some others are doing:







https://athleticdirectoru.com/articles/ ... look-like/

[dmjcat]

Hell. We're not even in the 2nd tier and we have fans/posters who believe we should be challenging for the Big12/NCAA title (basketball) every year.

https://www.cbssports.com/college-baske ... ial-chaos/

[dovecanyoncat]

Kentucky to shift athletic dept. to private LLC company in historic move

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ke ... r-AA1DDqk0

Members of the University of Kentucky Board of Trustees approved a proposal to transfer its entire athletic department into a limited liability company (LLC) called Champions Blue, LLC. ..... Kentucky’s move is believed to be the first of its kind by any major university in the country. ..... By shifting its actual athletic department into a private, for-profit company structure, Kentucky will be able to explore new ways of raising money, including public-private partnerships, to handle expenses as college football and other sports prepare to share revenue with athletes.

“We believe this is an innovative approach, a new structure and governance model that thoughtfully contemplates how we strengthen Athletics, protect and promote the University, and open up new opportunities for growth,” Kentucky president Eli Capulouto said.

[pc in NM]

Kentucky to shift athletic dept. to private LLC company in historic move

https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/nfl/ke ... r-AA1DDqk0

Members of the University of Kentucky Board of Trustees approved a proposal to transfer its entire athletic department into a limited liability company (LLC) called Champions Blue, LLC. ..... Kentucky’s move is believed to be the first of its kind by any major university in the country. ..... By shifting its actual athletic department into a private, for-profit company structure, Kentucky will be able to explore new ways of raising money, including public-private partnerships, to handle expenses as college football and other sports prepare to share revenue with athletes.

“We believe this is an innovative approach, a new structure and governance model that thoughtfully contemplates how we strengthen Athletics, protect and promote the University, and open up new opportunities for growth,” Kentucky president Eli Capulouto said.

All the universities offer are some real estate - otherwise, they just get in the way of athletic departments.