2025-26 Arizona Basketball

[Winger]

Gonzaga is in the WCC.

It took Few 18 fucking seasons to make a Final Four.

And after making the Elite 8 in his first season (not his players) he failed to make it back the next 15 seasons.

15 consecutive tournaments without an E8. 18 without a F4.

For nearly 2 decades Few was the poster child for not fielding athletic enough teams to matter.

Which was exactly my point. That crap aint going to cut it for Arizona in its OOC, the B12 conference, nor in the NCAA tournament.

Where Lloyd has dramatically underperformed to date for the record.

[TheCat]

Gonzaga is in the WCC.

It took Few 18 fucking seasons to make a Final Four.

And after making the Elite 8 in his first season (not his players) he failed to make it back the next 15 seasons.

15 consecutive tournaments without an E8. 18 without a F4.

For nearly 2 decades Few was the poster child for not fielding athletic enough teams to matter.

Which was exactly my point. That crap aint going to cut it for Arizona in its OOC, the B12 conference, nor in the NCAA tournament.

Where Lloyd has dramatically underperformed to date for the record.

Well it has ONLY BEEN 25 YEARS Fucking since we made the final four. 18 sounds good to me. How many in the last decade did Few make? Being the scholar you are why don't you tell me how many years it took John Wooden to make it to the final four? I guess he was the poster child for being inept. Why you have to run every other team down is beyond me. The NBA does not take unathletic guys does it? 11 Zags were feature on opening day rosters and many are foreigners. In the last ten years the best team on the west coast has been the Zags and that they built their team with foreign players because they don't have the resources other teams have had. The Nuggets won last night because of a foreign Zag player.

If that crap ain't going to cut it I can imagine your frustration when a roster made largely of Arizona freshman falls short in the OOC, B12 and the tourney. At a minimum we will be starting two freshman and the only time that has been really successful at Arizona was Arenas and Gardner that I can remember. I think we are about to see a baptism by fire for our freshman and while that will lead to more losses and bitching it will help our guys.

If Lloyd in your words has "dramatically underperformed to date for the record" (a recurring theme of yours) he has won more games than a handful of coaches in NCAA history in his time as a head coach (the real record) while upgrading the hell out of the schedule each year. Your definition is not recognized by ANYONE with knowledge of the coaching profession or in the coaching profession. You think they tap slouches to coach USA basketball? I mean it is only a committee of the top basketball minds in the country that pick the coach and his staff.

Of course they don't know as much as a prominent poster on the internet.

[ChooChooCat]

Okay, so just a quick sanity check on my scorecard at the moment. So, we've got Bradley returning in the backcourt, the 5-star freshmen (Burries, Aristode, and Peat), and Krivas returning at center, with Awaka and Dell'Orso also as returning veterans. Then you've got debatable contributions from Nelson from Harvard, LeBron's other son Bryce, and two 6-11 freshmen who may be redshirt/long-term projects. And we may get a Euro wing player who we hope is more comparable to Pelle Larsson than Dell'Orso. If that's way off, somebody please unscramble it.

You can debate the contribution from Nelson but I don’t believe that holds for the other 3. The rest is right save for we don’t know what Bryant’s “replacement” is going to be yet. Allegedly Mike Luke said it would be someone who withdrew from the draft. Others have speculated that it will be a player from overseas. I believe we need another guard in addition to Bryant’s replacement. Long way of saying we are still sort of in limbo when it comes to next season’s team.

Luke was reaching with the whole "someone withdrawing from the draft" shenanigans. It'll be international.

[PHXCATS]

Why do people listen to Luke?

[azcat49]

Why do people listen to Luke?

Truth. Guy is a total idiot

[TheCat]

Why do people listen to Luke?

Truth. Guy is a total idiot

That is the truth.

[Winger]

Well it has ONLY BEEN 25 YEARS Fucking since we made the final four. 18 sounds good to me. How many in the last decade did Few make? Being the scholar you are why don't you tell me how many years it took John Wooden to make it to the final four? I guess he was the poster child for being inept. Why you have to run every other team down is beyond me. The NBA does not take unathletic guys does it? 11 Zags were feature on opening day rosters and many are foreigners. In the last ten years the best team on the west coast has been the Zags and that they built their team with foreign players because they don't have the resources other teams have had. The Nuggets won last night because of a foreign Zag player.

If that crap ain't going to cut it I can imagine your frustration when a roster made largely of Arizona freshman falls short in the OOC, B12 and the tourney. At a minimum we will be starting two freshman and the only time that has been really successful at Arizona was Arenas and Gardner that I can remember. I think we are about to see a baptism by fire for our freshman and while that will lead to more losses and bitching it will help our guys.

If Lloyd in your words has "dramatically underperformed to date for the record" (a recurring theme of yours) he has won more games than a handful of coaches in NCAA history in his time as a head coach (the real record) while upgrading the hell out of the schedule each year. Your definition is not recognized by ANYONE with knowledge of the coaching profession or in the coaching profession. You think they tap slouches to coach USA basketball? I mean it is only a committee of the top basketball minds in the country that pick the coach and his staff.

Of course they don't know as much as a prominent poster on the internet.

Arizona 2002-present and Wooden have nothing to do with me posting about defense, lack of alpha, how the game is played in the Big 12 and in the Top 10; and Euros.

You brought up Gonzaga as a response and I directly showed you how idiotic of a take that was. It is less idiotic than the Nuggets takes because Strawther is the only Gonzaga player on the Nugs and he was born in the USA and the Joker — like here to date just about every elite NBA Euro — didnt play college ball.

You’re right that if Arizona isn’t very good again I am going to be irritated. But none of the freshmen that Arizona currently has on the roster and whom are likely to play are European. Another meaningless distraction.

Lloyd underperforming in the NCAA tournament is not “in my words” nor a “definition” or a “theme” nor any other label you would attach to it to try and discount its meaning.

It is a statement of fact based on objective data.

Nothing you post can change that. The only thing that can is Lloyd starting to outperform in the Tournament. His Euros are going to have to play better for that to happen. Particularly when it comes to defense and scoring buckets in tight physical games without a lot of whistles. The kinds of games that also dont take place in the WCC and also didnt occur in the Pac 10/12.

Same holds for the Big 12.

The number of games Lloyd has won outside of the Tournament has nothing to do at all with his underperformance in the Tournament. If anything, that number of wins makes his Tournament performance more questionable than it would be on face value. His coaching of USA basketball is also completely erroneous.

I never posted that Lloyd was a bad or mediocre coach. That is more distracting nonsense from you. I did post that his NCAA Tournament record is underperforming. Which it is.

I speculate that some of that is based on his Euros not being able to play defense nor handle tough physical slower defense first games. And that this is partly why he has changed his approach since entering the Big 12.

An aside: things can and do change. And it is possible that with “NIL” the quality of European players entering college ball will improve. There are still going to be hurdles — lack of physical/athleticism, lack of alpha, the postseason/NCAA Tournament not being as important to them as the regular season — but things could change.

[Winger]

Luke was reaching with the whole "someone withdrawing from the draft" shenanigans. It'll be international.

Could end up being both, right?

[Merkin]

There will always be exceptions to the rule, but Lloyd is no longer in the WCC nor the Pac and; especially if you consider his unreal OOC scheduling, isnt going to be able to win enough trying to play guys like Bal, Boro, Martinez, Maruskas, Veesaar, ADO, Townsend, etc.

Winger, why is Veesaar on that list? The rest are pretty obvious. Thought Henri did better than expected.

[Winger]

There will always be exceptions to the rule, but Lloyd is no longer in the WCC nor the Pac and; especially if you consider his unreal OOC scheduling, isnt going to be able to win enough trying to play guys like Bal, Boro, Martinez, Maruskas, Veesaar, ADO, Townsend, etc.

Winger, why is Veesaar on that list? The rest are pretty obvious. Thought Henri did better than expected.

Struggled defensively some, especially on the perimeter/guarding 4s and in screen actions. He was tough imo but lacked strength/size for his height and wasnt quick-athletic. I think you could win with him as your 5 but you need dudes with defensive chops around him and opposing coaches will try to isolate him defensively. He was by far the most borderline addition to that list, you’re 100% right on that.

[Postmaster]

Don't bigs usually take longer to develop? If he plays 2 more years I think HV will be a really good player. By year 9 Ballo became a force for AZ.

The problem is that teams are having to rely on underclassmen far too much these days. And if you get a transfer in who is an upperclassman, there still seems to be a big learning curve on D.

[CatMG]

Don't bigs usually take longer to develop? If he plays 2 more years I think HV will be a really good player. By year 9 Ballo became a force for AZ.

The problem is that teams are having to rely on underclassmen far too much these days. And if you get a transfer in who is an upperclassman, there still seems to be a big learning curve on D.

Sure seems like bigs have developed pretty damn well under Lloyd. Well enough that one might wonder if it might be in a player's best interest to stay here even if it might mean a smaller NIL deal.

[dirtbags]

like in CA, public schools' contracts are subject to CPRA (CA version of FOIA) and accessible by anyone. i believe AZ has it's own similar disclosure laws -

I was a California Cal State employee. You can look up exactly how much I make in my pension and how much I made every year.

If you look at the state employees in AZ, and rank them by pay, UA and ASU MBB and FB coaches top the list.

NBA salaries are disclosed. I don't see the need to hide the payment to student athletes from state coffers. NIL I can see, that is all private money.

right - i'm aware that gov employee salaries are public. i was referring to schools saying they can't or won't disclose athletes' NIL deals from collectives (or, moving forward, from the athletic dept but categorized as NIL) because they're contracts, when contracts are for the most part already public record.

[Winger]

Don't bigs usually take longer to develop? If he plays 2 more years I think HV will be a really good player. By year 9 Ballo became a force for AZ.

The problem is that teams are having to rely on underclassmen far too much these days. And if you get a transfer in who is an upperclassman, there still seems to be a big learning curve on D.

Sure seems like bigs have developed pretty damn well under Lloyd. Well enough that one might wonder if it might be in a player's best interest to stay here even if it might mean a smaller NIL deal.

Agree. And Veesaar is going to play for a coach that doesnt know what he is doing on top of that. Problem for HV was: where am I going to play?

In addition to sitting for Awaka now he has Krivas in front of his as well. Lloyd tried Veesaar alongside Awaka last season but that was more a novelty than a strategy. And now you have a legit 4 in Peat on the roster. Admittedly a freshman but the 4th highest rated recruit in Arizona history (Ayton, Johnson, Gordon).

Similar to Bryant, you could make a legitimate argument for Veesaar being suspicious over his minute allocation given what transpired last season. If you were Carter or Henri would you trust Lloyd to play you? I wouldn’t.

If Davis is promising him the world that gets a pass because there is no track record to disprove it.

Only way Veesaar was coming back is if Lloyd chose him over Krivas and that was never happening.

I think we will end up believing that that was the correct call by the end of this season, but there certainly are reasons to have wanted Veesaar back on the roster and starting at the 5. In particular, he does some things that help free up and open the offense that Krivas likely can’t/won’t do.

[TheCat]

Well it has ONLY BEEN 25 YEARS Fucking since we made the final four. 18 sounds good to me. How many in the last decade did Few make? Being the scholar you are why don't you tell me how many years it took John Wooden to make it to the final four? I guess he was the poster child for being inept. Why you have to run every other team down is beyond me. The NBA does not take unathletic guys does it? 11 Zags were feature on opening day rosters and many are foreigners. In the last ten years the best team on the west coast has been the Zags and that they built their team with foreign players because they don't have the resources other teams have had. The Nuggets won last night because of a foreign Zag player.

If that crap ain't going to cut it I can imagine your frustration when a roster made largely of Arizona freshman falls short in the OOC, B12 and the tourney. At a minimum we will be starting two freshman and the only time that has been really successful at Arizona was Arenas and Gardner that I can remember. I think we are about to see a baptism by fire for our freshman and while that will lead to more losses and bitching it will help our guys.

If Lloyd in your words has "dramatically underperformed to date for the record" (a recurring theme of yours) he has won more games than a handful of coaches in NCAA history in his time as a head coach (the real record) while upgrading the hell out of the schedule each year. Your definition is not recognized by ANYONE with knowledge of the coaching profession or in the coaching profession. You think they tap slouches to coach USA basketball? I mean it is only a committee of the top basketball minds in the country that pick the coach and his staff.

Of course they don't know as much as a prominent poster on the internet.

Arizona 2002-present and Wooden have nothing to do with me posting about defense, lack of alpha, how the game is played in the Big 12 and in the Top 10; and Euros.

You brought up Gonzaga as a response and I directly showed you how idiotic of a take that was. It is less idiotic than the Nuggets takes because Strawther is the only Gonzaga player on the Nugs and he was born in the USA and the Joker — like here to date just about every elite NBA Euro — didnt play college ball.

You’re right that if Arizona isn’t very good again I am going to be irritated. But none of the freshmen that Arizona currently has on the roster and whom are likely to play are European. Another meaningless distraction.

Lloyd underperforming in the NCAA tournament is not “in my words” nor a “definition” or a “theme” nor any other label you would attach to it to try and discount its meaning.

It is a statement of fact based on objective data.

Nothing you post can change that. The only thing that can is Lloyd starting to outperform in the Tournament. His Euros are going to have to play better for that to happen. Particularly when it comes to defense and scoring buckets in tight physical games without a lot of whistles. The kinds of games that also dont take place in the WCC and also didnt occur in the Pac 10/12.

Same holds for the Big 12.

The number of games Lloyd has won outside of the Tournament has nothing to do at all with his underperformance in the Tournament. If anything, that number of wins makes his Tournament performance more questionable than it would be on face value. His coaching of USA basketball is also completely erroneous.

I never posted that Lloyd was a bad or mediocre coach. That is more distracting nonsense from you. I did post that his NCAA Tournament record is underperforming. Which it is.

I speculate that some of that is based on his Euros not being able to play defense nor handle tough physical slower defense first games. And that this is partly why he has changed his approach since entering the Big 12.

An aside: things can and do change. And it is possible that with “NIL” the quality of European players entering college ball will improve. There are still going to be hurdles — lack of physical/athleticism, lack of alpha, the postseason/NCAA Tournament not being as important to them as the regular season — but things could change.

Your opinion of Gonzaga by your own admission is 20 years old. It isn't relevant. They have been the standard on the West Coast in the last decade. I must have misread your comment about underachieving since I thought you were talking about OCC and B12 along with the tournament. I agree CTL has lost to lower seeds in the tourney if that is the criteria, but that is true of most 1-2 seeds right? He by his own admission needs to be better. I think he is still learning and hopefully makes progress.

My prediction is that we will really struggle early if not most of the year because most freshman take a good part of the year to develop consistency and adjust defensively and to the physicality of the NCAA. Hell our highest recruit in a long time averaged a little over 7 points a game last year. That might have to do with his physicality but his upside was obvious. Guards seem to be better early and that is my hope but we have a huge gap to close scoring wise after Love leaves.