Sean Miller Discussion

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:38 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
Longhorned wrote:
Beachcat97 wrote:
Bosy Billups wrote:What did Coach K do his first 10 years as a coach?

What has Miller done his first 10 years as a coach?

Any questions?
Yes. So you're implying that because of this supposed parallel between the two coaches' first 10 years, we should expect that Miller is likely to go on and achieve something similar at AZ to what K has done at Duke?

So not happening.
So you're implying that because you're depressed about a conference loss and identifying with the loss at some kind of personal level, we should expect your prognostications about Sean Miller's ceiling to bear any kind of adherence to how the future will unfold?
No, you shouldn't expect that. You should expect this year's team to reach the FF. So let's check back in like five or six weeks and see if they break from Miller's pattern.

So if Sean Miller doesn't make his first Final Four at the age of 46, in his second year with a pre-season top-6 team, then that's his pattern or ceiling that he can't break away from or break through?

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Sun Feb 08, 2015 8:59 pm

Beachcat97 wrote:
Bosy Billups wrote:What did Coach K do his first 10 years as a coach?

What has Miller done his first 10 years as a coach?

Any questions?
Yes. So you're implying that because of this supposed parallel between the two coaches' first 10 years, we should expect that Miller is likely to go on and achieve something similar at AZ to what K has done at Duke?

So not happening.

"So not happening"? Moon Unit (Dweezil's sister) called - she wants her 80's Valley-girl cliches back.

Pretty unlikely that any coach accomplishes what Krzyzewski has. If Miller achieved 1/2 of what K did he would go down as unquestionably the greatest coach we will ever have.

Coaches develop over time. Bosy's point clearly illustrates that for anyone with a modicum of deductive reasoning.

I'll go one better... What did John Wooden accomplish in his first 15 years of coaching? By your standards he should never have been kept around that long, which is what it took him to reach his first Final 4; he was 52 at the time. "He'll never be able to compete with Pete Newell, otherwise he would have already!"

But your ridiculous notion that the first 5, 10, or whatever years dictate a coach's ceiling in terms of career accomplishment is inane. Nothing new.

azcat34 · Post by **azcat34** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:06 am

BeachCat forgot to take his bi-polar meds I see.

Can't wait to bump this later in the season when he's all over Miller's nuts.

Machina · Post by **Machina** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:12 am

Bad loss but it is not the end of the world. After what happened last year in Tempe and what Miller and Byrne did as a result, I was not expecting this and lots of people have been hurt as a result.

But the Lute event was outstanding on Friday.

azcat34 · Post by **azcat34** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:14 am

Machina wrote:Bad loss but it is not the end of the world. After what happened last year in Tempe and what Miller and Byrne did as a result, I was not expecting this and lots of people have been hurt as a result.

But the Lute event was outstanding on Friday.

Please elaborate.

Machina · Post by **Machina** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 9:34 am

No Tip Off Taste this year which was a huge fund raiser for scholarships. (see hints)

Lute stepped it up though. Todd Walsh interviewed Lute in front of 200 fans and honored Lute and Phoenix Country Club. Lute was outstanding. Told great stories as did Walsh.

EVCat · Post by **EVCat** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 10:56 am

Was a coaching change necessary after Lute Olson took a 2 and 3 seed and drove them off a cliff in the first round?

This is such a ridiculous conversation. Playing in Elite Eights means playing for Final Fours. Sean Miller is young and will improve as a coach. The pipeline will continue to be strong. And we will consistently compete for Final Fours. A ball going halfway in and out in 2011 and a crazy offensive foul call in 2014 are not coaching. Yet the naysayers would be idolizing Miller if either of those two plays went the other way, without a peep of how easily it could have gone against us.

Sucky fans suck.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:26 am

But we're hurting NOW! Someone must pay NOW! Because this is "unacceptable" NOW!

Fascinating how it's basically crickets after six-straight victories, and a braying mass of whiners after a loss.

Dumbasses. Entitled dumbasses.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:31 am

gumby wrote:But we're hurting NOW! Someone must pay NOW! Because this is "unacceptable" NOW!

Fascinating how it's basically crickets after six-straight victories, and a braying mass of whiners after a loss.

Dumbasses. Entitled dumbasses.

It's really just sad.

Airizona · Post by **Airizona** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:37 am

It's like a little kid with a toy.

They are fine when the toy is in front of them, but take it away for 2 seconds and they lose their minds.

The nearsightedness of some of the posters on this board is unbelievable.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:38 am

If 3 shots in the past 3 tourneys had gone in, what would the ceiling whiners be whining about exactly?

az91 · Post by **az91** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:41 am

EVCat wrote:Was a coaching change necessary after Lute Olson took a 2 and 3 seed and drove them off a cliff in the first round?

And just like Lute, Miller will have a few teams that underachieved. This year's team is definitely heading in that direction.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 11:45 am

az91 wrote:
EVCat wrote:Was a coaching change necessary after Lute Olson took a 2 and 3 seed and drove them off a cliff in the first round?
And just like Lute, Miller will have a few teams that underachieved. This year's team is definitely heading in that direction.

Yeah all is lost. You are priceless.

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:14 pm

I don't even read the majority of these threads after losses anymore

azcat34 · Post by **azcat34** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:39 pm

az91 wrote:
EVCat wrote:Was a coaching change necessary after Lute Olson took a 2 and 3 seed and drove them off a cliff in the first round?
And just like Lute, Miller will have a few teams that underachieved. This year's team is definitely heading in that direction.

Just like when they lost to Arizona State last year around this time of year.

Oh yea, that team was a shot away from the Final Four.

Seriously, when has a Miller team not been going full speed in the Tournament? Last year was especially tough and they still were a shot away from the Final Four.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:45 pm

gumby wrote:But we're hurting NOW! Someone must pay NOW! Because this is "unacceptable" NOW!

Fascinating how it's basically crickets after six-straight victories, and a braying mass of whiners after a loss.

Dumbasses. Entitled dumbasses.

azcat34 · Post by **azcat34** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:48 pm

This season and last Miller is 53-8. I think that's pretty good, can 97cats confirm this for me?

WildcatStunner · Post by **WildcatStunner** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 12:58 pm

This is as bad if not worse than the "Can Sean Miller Recruit" thread from TOS. Offense comes and goes, but the defense should remain consistent. If we are not consistent on D we lose. No one is above criticism, that is understood. But be realistic about it and look at the numbers SM has achieved here. Relax, sit back, enjoy the ride.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:32 pm

az91 wrote:
EVCat wrote:Was a coaching change necessary after Lute Olson took a 2 and 3 seed and drove them off a cliff in the first round?
And just like Lute, Miller will have a few teams that underachieved. This year's team is definitely heading in that direction.

Just like every coach, actually.

What does "heading in that direction" even mean? That in 1993, you just knew in February that the Santa Clara loss was coming? Ditto, 1992 with East Tenn. State? Conversely, you could judge the 2009 team in February (16-8, 6-5 on Feb. 7) and predict it would overachiece and get to the Sweet Sixteen? Just knew that 1997 team (15-5, 6-3, Feb. 5) would win a natty while in the midst of conference struggles? That the 5th-seeded Wildcats would blow out Duke and get to the EE in 2011 (after squeaking by Memphis and Texas) by evaluating the team in February?

How does one know a team is headed in that direction? Please, let me in on the secret so I can contact Vegas.

97cats · Post by **97cats** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:40 pm

gumby wrote:
Just like every coach, actually.

What does "heading in that direction" even mean? That in 1993, you just knew in February that the Santa Clara loss was coming? Ditto, 1992 with East Tenn. State? Conversely, you could judge the 2009 team in February (16-8, 6-5 on Feb. 7) and predict it would overachiece and get to the Sweet Sixteen? Just knew that 1997 team (15-5, 6-3, Feb. 5) would win a natty while in the midst of conference struggles? That the 5th-seeded Wildcats would blow out Duke and get to the EE in 2011 (after squeaking by Memphis and Texas) by evaluating the team in February?

How does one know a team is headed in that direction. Please, let me in on the secret so I can contact Vegas.

pls continue -- dont stop

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 1:48 pm

gumby wrote:
az91 wrote:
EVCat wrote:Was a coaching change necessary after Lute Olson took a 2 and 3 seed and drove them off a cliff in the first round?
And just like Lute, Miller will have a few teams that underachieved. This year's team is definitely heading in that direction.
Just like every coach, actually.

What does "heading in that direction" even mean? That in 1993, you just knew in February that the Santa Clara loss was coming? Ditto, 1992 with East Tenn. State? Conversely, you could judge the 2009 team in February (16-8, 6-5 on Feb. 7) and predict it would get to the Sweet Sixteen? Just knew that 1997 team (15-5, 6-3, Feb. 5) would win a natty while in the midst of conference struggles?

How does one know a team is headed in that direction. Please, let me in on the secret so I can contact Vegas.

One of college basketball's biggest assets is the "madness" ensuing from masses of people who don't know enough about the history of the game and the nature of one-and-out tourney competition between two teams that don't really know each other. So let's not undermine that asset by dismantling the "heading in that direction" myth.

We could note Sean Miller's pattern of tourney failures or disappointments. Or we could recognize that pattern as a set of Sweet 16's and Elite 8's. Barring any unforeseen injuries, this year will be the first year ever that Sean Miller brings an arguably top-4 team to the tourney. And yet we're already talking "ceiling".

KaibabKat · Post by **KaibabKat** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:02 pm

Longhorned wrote: this year will be the first year ever that Sean Miller brings an arguably top-4 team to the tourney. And yet we're already talking "ceiling".

Were we not the #1 ranked team entering the tournament last year?

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:06 pm

KaibabKat wrote:
Longhorned wrote: this year will be the first year ever that Sean Miller brings an arguably top-4 team to the tourney. And yet we're already talking "ceiling".
Were we not the #1 ranked team entering the tournament last year?

Wanna say we weren't the same team after Bash went down...I know stats may not show it....

Main Event · Post by **Main Event** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:11 pm

KaibabKat wrote:
Longhorned wrote: this year will be the first year ever that Sean Miller brings an arguably top-4 team to the tourney. And yet we're already talking "ceiling".
Were we not the #1 ranked team entering the tournament last year?

Florida

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:12 pm

KaibabKat wrote:
Longhorned wrote: this year will be the first year ever that Sean Miller brings an arguably top-4 team to the tourney. And yet we're already talking "ceiling".
Were we not the #1 ranked team entering the tournament last year?

That was a "barring injuries" question. Arizona was granted one of the four top seeds in the tourney, but that seed was earned through an undefeated start until Ashley went down in February, followed by 4 losses. And it ended with an overtime loss on the final possession of the Elite Eight.

CalStateTempe · Post by **CalStateTempe** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:25 pm

Olsondogg wrote:
KaibabKat wrote:
Longhorned wrote: this year will be the first year ever that Sean Miller brings an arguably top-4 team to the tourney. And yet we're already talking "ceiling".
Were we not the #1 ranked team entering the tournament last year?
Wanna say we weren't the same team after Bash went down...I know stats may not show it....

They do. I posted in another thread pre and lost bash injury adj o and adj d

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:26 pm

CalStateTempe wrote:
Olsondogg wrote:
KaibabKat wrote:
Longhorned wrote: this year will be the first year ever that Sean Miller brings an arguably top-4 team to the tourney. And yet we're already talking "ceiling".
Were we not the #1 ranked team entering the tournament last year?
Wanna say we weren't the same team after Bash went down...I know stats may not show it....
They do. I posted in another thread pre and lost bash injury adj o and adj d

Gotcha, wasn't sure.

The way Bash has played defensively this year, I wonder if AdjD would improve...

milbarge · Post by **milbarge** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 2:54 pm

KaibabKat wrote:
Longhorned wrote: this year will be the first year ever that Sean Miller brings an arguably top-4 team to the tourney. And yet we're already talking "ceiling".
Were we not the #1 ranked team entering the tournament last year?

#4 in both polls going into tourney. Florida, Wich St, Nova ahead of us

Harvey Specter · Post by **Harvey Specter** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:13 pm

Machina wrote:No Tip Off Taste this year which was a huge fund raiser for scholarships. (see hints)

Lute stepped it up though. Todd Walsh interviewed Lute in front of 200 fans and honored Lute and Phoenix Country Club. Lute was outstanding. Told great stories as did Walsh.

You are relentless if nothing else...

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:49 pm

I'm not a ...

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 3:51 pm

Too many ...

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Feb 09, 2015 4:00 pm

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 7:48 am

Miller was p...ssed at the refs. Intense.

A bigger problem probably was getting to the line in the first place. UA took only 14 free throws while ASU took 28.

After the game, a reporter asked UA coach Sean Miller about officiating, saying that he appeared to be upset by it. (Check out the Fox Sports screen shot on allsportstucson)

Miller said: "I was upset with our team."
http://tucson.com/sports/blogs/pascoe/w ... 9228b.html

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:23 am

HiCat wrote:Miller was p...ssed at the refs. Intense.

A bigger problem probably was getting to the line in the first place. UA took only 14 free throws while ASU took 28.

After the game, a reporter asked UA coach Sean Miller about officiating, saying that he appeared to be upset by it. (Check out the Fox Sports screen shot on allsportstucson)

Miller said: "I was upset with our team."
http://tucson.com/sports/blogs/pascoe/w ... 9228b.html

Miller was trying to get a T during the game. I fully expect people to criticize his sideline behaviors, although I think most of it was warranted.

I don't think you'll ever hear Miller complain pregame or postgame about the officiating in the PAC ever again. It is clear that there have been issues, and appear that there still are issues. I know that it is a common theme from conference to conference about the officiating in CBB, and something needs to be done about the way games are called.

Personally all I want is some consistency. And I am not even talking game to game. I am talking within the game. You can't watch a game like the one on Saturday and figure out wtf is going on. 7 FT in the 1st and over 30 in the 2nd shows that the way the game was called changed over time. How can a team continue to play defense the same way throughout a game when what was not a foul suddenly becomes one? How can a hand check or a screen not be a foul in the first half, but become one in the second?

It's always so surprising to me that a team can get absolutely blown out of McKale, and I mean blown the fuck out, and a month later they become world beaters in their home arena. I also will never understand how a team that shoots more FT's than the other teams in their league attempt suddenly can't seem to find a way to get to the line....so odd...

I do think that the officiating totally changed the way UA played Saturday. When TJ picked up his 2nd, and I wanna say we were like up 7 or something with about 9 to go in the 1st, Arizona consistently settled for contested jumpers and failed to crash the offensive boards (which is one thing Miller has pointed to as a way to not get foul calls). Players seemed tentative on Saturday to man up on defense, and my thought was the fear of getting another foul. Perhaps Miller was pissed both at the officiating and the fact that his players were letting the officiating take them out of what they do.

With all that said, nothing will change until we get to the tourney...which is why it is the best time of the year.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Tue Feb 10, 2015 8:31 am

More free throws. More one-point possessions. Don't believe we made consecutive tosses in that game. Hard to come back when the other team is hitting 80 percent, despite being a poor FT team. They raised their level. We dropped ours. In all facets.

UCLA crushed in SLC. Win at home. Happens a lot. That's why coaches preach "focus."

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 6:28 am

Sean Miller on ASU loss

"You'll learn a lot about our team this weekend.." sic

http://tucson.com/online/video/more-spo ... 948ef.html

az91 · Post by **az91** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 7:49 am

gumby wrote:More free throws. More one-point possessions. Don't believe we made consecutive tosses in that game. Hard to come back when the other team is hitting 80 percent, despite being a poor FT team. They raised their level. We dropped ours. In all facets.

UCLA crushed in SLC. Win at home. Happens a lot. That's why coaches preach "focus."

Miller doesn't have the players this year that can execute his defense effectively.

dcZONAfan · Post by **dcZONAfan** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 8:42 am

az91 wrote:
Miller doesn't have the players this year that can execute his defense effectively.

Yea, must be why our AdjD is 7th in the country. Let's ship these players out. I think those guys over at Notre Dame would do better executing this defense, don't you? Maybe the Iowa State guys, now that I think of it...

milbarge · Post by **milbarge** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:08 am

dcZONAfan wrote:
az91 wrote:
Miller doesn't have the players this year that can execute his defense effectively.
Yea, must be why our AdjD is 7th in the country. Let's ship these players out. I think those guys over at Notre Dame would do better executing this defense, don't you? Maybe the Iowa State guys, now that I think of it...

Not only is it 7th but our Kenpom AdjD this year is 88.2, last year we were #1 AdjD with an 88.5. So according to Kenpom our AdjD is actually better this year.

azcat34 · Post by **azcat34** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 9:21 am

milbarge wrote:
dcZONAfan wrote:
az91 wrote:
Miller doesn't have the players this year that can execute his defense effectively.
Yea, must be why our AdjD is 7th in the country. Let's ship these players out. I think those guys over at Notre Dame would do better executing this defense, don't you? Maybe the Iowa State guys, now that I think of it...
Not only is it 7th but our Kenpom AdjD this year is 88.2, last year we were #1 AdjD with an 88.5. So according to Kenpom our AdjD is actually better this year.

UK's historic AdjD has continued to go up as well. With a strong finish Arizona could easily have the top AdjD in the country going into March Madness.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:23 am

az91 wrote:
gumby wrote:More free throws. More one-point possessions. Don't believe we made consecutive tosses in that game. Hard to come back when the other team is hitting 80 percent, despite being a poor FT team. They raised their level. We dropped ours. In all facets.

UCLA crushed in SLC. Win at home. Happens a lot. That's why coaches preach "focus."
Miller doesn't have the players this year that can execute his defense effectively.

Is it hard to be wrong all the time?

Machina · Post by **Machina** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:30 am

I see a lot of talk about KENPOM and AdjO and AdjD. How much of it is this year's team and how much of it is the weak competition?

Some stats are better this year but my eyes and heart tell me last year's team was better, even without Ashley

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:33 am

Uh oh, someone has a lack of understanding!!!

Bosy Billups · Post by **Bosy Billups** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:40 am

Sean Miller's ceiling is the moon.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:43 am

Machina wrote:I see a lot of talk about KENPOM and AdjO and AdjD. How much of it is this year's team and how much of it is the weak competition?

Some stats are better this year but my eyes and heart tell me last year's team was better, even without Ashley

If any post was just begging to be bumped...again and again...

threenumberones · Post by **threenumberones** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:43 am

az91 wrote:
gumby wrote:More free throws. More one-point possessions. Don't believe we made consecutive tosses in that game. Hard to come back when the other team is hitting 80 percent, despite being a poor FT team. They raised their level. We dropped ours. In all facets.

UCLA crushed in SLC. Win at home. Happens a lot. That's why coaches preach "focus."
Miller doesn't have the players this year that can execute his defense effectively.

What's effectively? Can an opponent ever score in order for it to be effective? Olson probably wouldn't have sniffed the top 10 in efficiency with his scheme and this team.

Interior defense was god awful at ASU. Atrocious. It's an anomaly and it will be fixed. Not the norm. The pack line isn't broken, at all. And that's the glory of it, the system typically trumps most personnel deficiencies.

You watch the games, right?

azcat34 · Post by **azcat34** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:44 am

Machina's eyes and heart > KenPom's revolutionary analytics software.

I knew it!

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:46 am

threenumberones wrote:
az91 wrote:
gumby wrote:More free throws. More one-point possessions. Don't believe we made consecutive tosses in that game. Hard to come back when the other team is hitting 80 percent, despite being a poor FT team. They raised their level. We dropped ours. In all facets.

UCLA crushed in SLC. Win at home. Happens a lot. That's why coaches preach "focus."
Miller doesn't have the players this year that can execute his defense effectively.
What's effectively? Can an opponent ever score in order for it to be effective? Olson probably wouldn't have sniffed the top 10 in efficiency with his scheme and this team.

Interior defense was god awful at ASU. Atrocious. It's an anomaly and it will be fixed. Not the norm. The pack line isn't broken, at all. And that's the glory of it, the system typically trumps most personnel deficiencies.

You watch the games, right?

Just a point on your post...Miller was asked what the problems with the interior defense were against ASU...and he said the problems weren't the interior, but the perimeter defense. To many players getting past defenders, able to dribble drive into the paint.

KaibabKat · Post by **KaibabKat** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:46 am

Bosy Billups wrote:Sean Miller's ceiling is the moon.

One of these days he may show some Pac-12 ref his ceiling.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Wed Feb 11, 2015 10:46 am

azcat34 wrote:Machina's eyes and heart > KenPom's revolutionary analytics software.

I knew it!

He missed the word "adjusted"...or perhaps he doesn't know what that term means. Maybe he's from Pitt...

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