As usual, shrinking bench

[BigSkyCatinMT]

6.5 men. Nothing new.

[Chicat]

PJC has a concussion. Should Miller have trotted him out there anyway?

[Merkin]

I imagine Craig Victor would have played against ASU also.

[dcZONAfan]

I imagine Craig Victor would have played against ASU also.

Probably would have been in there for about 15-20 minutes

[gumby]

PJC has a concussion. Should Miller have trotted him out there anyway?

Not if has to burn a timeout.

[Bear Down Vegas]

Not trying to be argumentative but how do you come to the 6.5 number?

TJ
Stan
Rondae
Ashley
Tarc
Ristic
York
Pitts

Or are you commenting on how one of our best bench players is hurt? And is there more news about PJC being out for a lot longer?

[PieceOfMeat]

PJC has a concussion. Should Miller have trotted him out there anyway?

I guess in MT, a concussion isn't a good enough reason to be out?

I imagine Craig Victor would have played against ASU also.

I swear, over the years (going way back through Lute's tenure as well) it seems that about 90% of the time when a player transfers due to a perceived lack of playing time, that something occurs which would have led to all the playing time they could handle. Whether they transfer, and then we have a player leave early for the nba, or they transfer, and we lose a player to injury, or whatever.

[Merkin]

I swear, over the years (going way back through Lute's tenure as well) it seems that about 90% of the time when a player transfers due to a perceived lack of playing time, that something occurs which would have led to all the playing time they could handle. Whether they transfer, and then we have a player leave early for the nba, or they transfer, and we lose a player to injury, or whatever.

Also never understood leaving at midseason. You only get 4 years of playing time in 5 years of eligibility.

So for Victor:

Year 1: First 1/2 season of playing, sits out second half, 1 total year down
Year 2: sits out first half, 1/2 year playing second half, 2 total years down

He now only has 2 years of playing eligibility left in 3 years. At the most, he can only play a total of 3 years playing time.

If he would have left end of season, he would have:

Year 1: Played whole year, 1 total year down
Year 2: Sat out whole year under transfer rules

He then would have 3 years to play 3 years for a total of 4 years playing.

[PieceOfMeat]

I swear, over the years (going way back through Lute's tenure as well) it seems that about 90% of the time when a player transfers due to a perceived lack of playing time, that something occurs which would have led to all the playing time they could handle. Whether they transfer, and then we have a player leave early for the nba, or they transfer, and we lose a player to injury, or whatever.

Also never understood leaving at midseason. You only get 4 years of playing time in 5 years of eligibility.

So for Victor:

Year 1: First 1/2 season of playing, sits out second half, 1 total year down
Year 2: sits out first half, 1/2 year playing second half, 2 total years down

He now only has 2 years of playing eligibility left in 3 years. At the most, he can only play a total of 3 years playing time.

If he would have left end of season, he would have:

Year 1: Played whole year, 1 total year down
Year 2: Sat out whole year under transfer rules

He then would have 3 years to play 3 years for a total of 4 years playing.

yep, the midseason thing never made sense to me either.

[EVCat]

We are 8 deep every game that the top 8 are healthy. We are 9 deep with PJC is there.

We went 10 deep when needed successfully in the Bay

What is this about a shrinking bench? Who isn't getting PT they should? Ristic goes as long as he is effective, and he was lost his first run onto the court in Tempe. Pitts and York both played real bench minutes. PJC is trying to figure out what day it is...

This simply makes no sense.

[catgrad97]

yep, the midseason thing never made sense to me either.

Homesick. Players a lot further from home than Victor did it to Lute.

Except for Dennis Latimore, who was a flat-out flake.

[Catstatic]

We are 8 deep every game that the top 8 are healthy. We are 9 deep with PJC is there.

We went 10 deep when needed successfully in the Bay

What is this about a shrinking bench? Who isn't getting PT they should? Ristic goes as long as he is effective, and he was lost his first run onto the court in Tempe. Pitts and York both played real bench minutes. PJC is trying to figure out what day it is...

This simply makes no sense.

It does make sense. Zeus and Ashley were completely off their games, and yet the backups at the 4 & 5 spots (Ristic and Korcheck) got 3 minutes total. For whatever reason Miller plays the backup guards and small forwards, but big guys? Get used to spotty minutes at best, and many times next to nothing in the big games. Makes absolutely no sense that I can see, but it is a definite substitution pattern.

No way we ever sniff a championship without developing the bigs on the bench.

Go Cats!!

[threenumberones]

The only one I want to see on the floor that isn't in the rotation, Korcheck. The guy plays with fire and that can be contagious off the bench, especially for a game like ASU was. We needed someone to come in and punch an ASU troll in the face.

[gumby]

PJC has a concussion. Should Miller have trotted him out there anyway?

I guess in MT, a concussion isn't a good enough reason to be out?

I imagine Craig Victor would have played against ASU also.

I swear, over the years (going way back through Lute's tenure as well) it seems that about 90% of the time when a player transfers due to a perceived lack of playing time, that something occurs which would have led to all the playing time they could handle. Whether they transfer, and then we have a player leave early for the nba, or they transfer, and we lose a player to injury, or whatever.

I swear that these transfers retroactively gain stature, so much so that people believe they would've made a difference. For instance, thinking Victor would've gotten 15-20 minutes against ASU on the road, when he averaged 7 (and a lot less in close games).

Probably would have been in there for about 15-20 minutes

[Jefe]

Ristic needs 10 mins a game, minimum. Hell, throw him and Zeus in together and see what kind of magic happens

[gumby]

The dudes getting by Bash would love one of those guys on them.

[pokinmik]

The only one I want to see on the floor that isn't in the rotation, Korcheck. The guy plays with fire and that can be contagious off the bench, especially for a game like ASU was. We needed someone to come in and punch an ASU troll in the face.

Agreed! I can see Ristic not playing much versus ASU due to the speed and being kinda soft right now. But we needed someone tough to bang with those fired-up, blowing their load vs AZ douchebags. But like Miller said, the perimeter D sucked too so maybe it wouldn't have made a difference.

[EVCat]

Ristic came into the game and looked lost.

You can't coach a game saying "this player must get X minutes a game."

There are games Ristic plays plenty. There are others he doesn't. And it has everything to do with whether he should stay in the game.

[gumby]

Ristic came into the game and looked lost.

You can't coach a game saying "this player must get X minutes a game."

There are games Ristic plays plenty. There are others he doesn't. And it has everything to do with whether he should stay in the game.

Exactly. Has a lot to learn about hedging screens and protecting the lane.

[Olsondogg]

You can't coach a game saying "this player must get X minutes a game."

This should be everyone's signature.

[BigSkyCatinMT]

PJC has a concussion. Should Miller have trotted him out there anyway?

I guess in MT, a concussion isn't a good enough reason to be out?

I imagine Craig Victor would have played against ASU also.

I swear, over the years (going way back through Lute's tenure as well) it seems that about 90% of the time when a player transfers due to a perceived lack of playing time, that something occurs which would have led to all the playing time they could handle. Whether they transfer, and then we have a player leave early for the nba, or they transfer, and we lose a player to injury, or whatever.

Pretty gross misrepresentation by you and the usual 'misquoter' of anything I said. Or did you just 'attach meaning' for your own purposes? For the record, I'm for player safety first and am fine with holding Parker out for as long as necessary.

I'm more referring to Ristic logging 3 minutes when our starting center went 1/6 and 2 points in 31 minutes, dropped the ball numerous times, couldn't handle a pass, or even finish a dunk.

I didn't invent the 'short bench controversy' either. It has been discussed many times on this and other forums. Miller even addressed it last year when Ashley went down and had nobody ready to play extended minutes. Lesson learned?

[Main Event]

He picked up 2 fouls and gave up 4 points in the first minute he was in.

[BigSkyCatinMT]

He picked up 2 fouls and gave up 4 points in the first minute he was in.

So he was pretty average compared to the rest of the team against ASU.

[PieceOfMeat]

Oh, this looks like fun....

Pretty gross misrepresentation by you and the usual 'misquoter' of anything I said. Or did you just 'attach meaning' for your own purposes? For the record, I'm for player safety first and am fine with holding Parker out for as long as necessary.

First, I made an obvious tongue-in-cheek reference to what ChiCat said. If you couldn't tell it was tongue-in-cheek, perhaps people in MT aren't as hardy and tough as my tongue-in-cheek joke was making them seem. Second, you'll notice that I didn't represent what you said, as I didn't say "boy that douchebag BigSkyCatinMT sure is an asshole for saying that Miller should have played a concussed player". But I didn't say that, did I?

Third, and this one's the more fun one. I'm not sure exactly 'what' your trying to 'say' with your 'second' sentence regarding 'purposes'. Try making a 'statement' or a 'question' without the 'air quotes' which throws into 'question' what is you're 'actually' trying to 'say' or 'ask' a 'person'. What evil purposes would you even suppose I'd have by making a joke? To make people laugh at you and then shame you out of fandom?

I'm more referring to Ristic logging 3 minutes when our starting center went 1/6 and 2 points in 31 minutes, dropped the ball numerous times, couldn't handle a pass, or even finish a dunk.

Well then, maybe you should have SAID THAT instead of pulling an asinine number of 6.5 out of your, well, ass. Take a look at the box score, we had 7 players in double digit minutes, and Ristic at 3. If you had at least said 7.5 you'd be somewhat accurate, but even then you'd be ignoring the fact that our 2nd best PG couldn't play, and your number would still be well off the mark.

I didn't invent the 'short bench controversy' either. It has been discussed many times on this and other forums. Miller even addressed it last year when Ashley went down and had nobody ready to play extended minutes. Lesson learned?

Oh, now it's a 'controversy' is it? I don't pick up the gossip rags, so you'll have to fill me on on the details!

P.s., I've been on record in the past that he should play more guys, and stop with the odd, pre-determined rotations, so you're really barking at me for no reason here other than whatever 'purpose' you have for doing it.

[HiCat]

I think Miller mentioned that the bench didn't do much. (vs asu) I bet they step it up this week. Be nice to have PJC back in the rotation soon.

[Main Event]

He picked up 2 fouls and gave up 4 points in the first minute he was in.

So he was pretty average compared to the rest of the team against ASU.

Because he contributes what the rest of the team does right? Would him playing an extra 5 minutes and more than likely fouling out in that time period while giving up more points while still taking an L have made you feel better?

[gumby]

Bash
Tarc
McConnell
Stan
Rondae
York
Pitts

If Ristic is the half, that's 7.5. So quit blaming others for "6.5." And "nothing new."

[84Cat]

[PieceOfMeat]

Awesome.

There has to be more to this sign though, right? Like Korchek's uncle runs the place or something?

If that's just a basketball fan's message, then bravo sir.

[gumby]

Pretty cool slice of life.

[gumby]

Awesome.

There has to be more to this sign though, right? Like Korchek's uncle runs the place or something?

If that's just a basketball fan's message, then bravo sir.

Aracdia Tavern's reader board reads: "Fire Miller; hire Pastner."

[Chicat]

Awesome.

There has to be more to this sign though, right? Like Korchek's uncle runs the place or something?

If that's just a basketball fan's message, then bravo sir.

Aracdia Tavern's reader board reads: "Fire Miller; hire Pastner."

"Come watch Lute's legacy be tarnished. $10 Corona Buckets"

[BigSkyCatinMT]

Oh, this looks like fun....

Pretty gross misrepresentation by you and the usual 'misquoter' of anything I said. Or did you just 'attach meaning' for your own purposes? For the record, I'm for player safety first and am fine with holding Parker out for as long as necessary.

First, I made an obvious tongue-in-cheek reference to what ChiCat said. If you couldn't tell it was tongue-in-cheek, perhaps people in MT aren't as hardy and tough as my tongue-in-cheek joke was making them seem. Second, you'll notice that I didn't represent what you said, as I didn't say "boy that douchebag BigSkyCatinMT sure is an asshole for saying that Miller should have played a concussed player". But I didn't say that, did I?

Third, and this one's the more fun one. I'm not sure exactly 'what' your trying to 'say' with your 'second' sentence regarding 'purposes'. Try making a 'statement' or a 'question' without the 'air quotes' which throws into 'question' what is you're 'actually' trying to 'say' or 'ask' a 'person'. What evil purposes would you even suppose I'd have by making a joke? To make people laugh at you and then shame you out of fandom?

I'm more referring to Ristic logging 3 minutes when our starting center went 1/6 and 2 points in 31 minutes, dropped the ball numerous times, couldn't handle a pass, or even finish a dunk.

Well then, maybe you should have SAID THAT instead of pulling an asinine number of 6.5 out of your, well, ass. Take a look at the box score, we had 7 players in double digit minutes, and Ristic at 3. If you had at least said 7.5 you'd be somewhat accurate, but even then you'd be ignoring the fact that our 2nd best PG couldn't play, and your number would still be well off the mark.

I didn't invent the 'short bench controversy' either. It has been discussed many times on this and other forums. Miller even addressed it last year when Ashley went down and had nobody ready to play extended minutes. Lesson learned?

Oh, now it's a 'controversy' is it? I don't pick up the gossip rags, so you'll have to fill me on on the details!

P.s., I've been on record in the past that he should play more guys, and stop with the odd, pre-determined rotations, so you're really barking at me for no reason here other than whatever 'purpose' you have for doing it.

I don't totally buy your explanation, but I'll accept it.

[BigSkyCatinMT]

POM, this IS a version of a gossip rag. We come here and basically...gossip. Even with PJC's injury and Victor transfer, minutes are starting to shrink a little for Pitts and disappearing for Ristic. That's what is becoming the 6.5.

[Chicat]

Sticking with players who are not playing well is not a winning strategy. And you can of course say that about starters too, but Sean Miller is paid a heaping amount of money to determine who gives his team the best opportunity to win on any given night.

[BigSkyCatinMT]

Thread shrinking faster than the bench. From 34 posts to 22 in 5 minutes? Forum glitch? Aggressive moderation? Software updates?

[Chicat]

Thread shrinking faster than the bench. From 34 posts to 22 in 5 minutes? Forum glitch? Aggressive moderation? Software updates?

I see 36 posts. Are you seeing things?

[Longhorned]

As usual, shrinking scrotum

[BigSkyCatinMT]

Thread shrinking faster than the bench. From 34 posts to 22 in 5 minutes? Forum glitch? Aggressive moderation? Software updates?

I see 36 posts. Are you seeing things?

I keep refreshing...I see 36 now, but it has bounced between 34 and 22.

Yes, I'm seeing things called numbers. It was a legit question. Wondered if I'm the only one this has happened to.

[Chicat]

Thread shrinking faster than the bench. From 34 posts to 22 in 5 minutes? Forum glitch? Aggressive moderation? Software updates?

I see 36 posts. Are you seeing things?

I keep refreshing...I see 36 now, but it has bounced between 34 and 22.

Yes, I'm seeing things called numbers. It was a legit question. Wondered if I'm the only one this has happened to.

The homeless dude on Michigan and Orleans who asks me if I want to pet his imaginary parrot every time I walk by also thinks he's asking a legit question.

I've often wondered if he's related to Longhorned....

[BigSkyCatinMT]

Sticking with players who are not playing well is not a winning strategy. And you can of course say that about starters too, but Sean Miller is paid a heaping amount of money to determine who gives his team the best opportunity to win on any given night.

Good point.

And officials are paid to call fouls on Ashley for breathing, and can even earn trips to The Bahamas. Not really a relevant comment, but I couldn't resist.

I root for the same team you do. I don't melt down when they lose, but I do see recurring patterns. Nick wore down every year, and he's top 3 favorite of mine ever. When the bench shrinks, I worry about the ability to recover from an injury. See Bash last year. I also worry about next years teams having played enough minutes to compete to their full potential.

[Olsondogg]

One of the most overrated aspects of the college game is the idea of a deep bench.

[BigSkyCatinMT]

One of the most overrated aspects of the college game is the idea of a deep bench.

Yeah.

We've seen what Corey Gains, Tom Peabody, Hank Gathers, Mike Yoest and Bo Kimble could do at Loyola MMT years ago as a 5 man team. Even at that frenetic pace. I'd rather not have players hit the 'Nick Johnson Wall' come March I'm also interested in player development so that when someone breaks a foot or gets concussed, the next guy in line isn't AFU. But that would never happen.

[Olsondogg]

The "Nick Johnson wall". Classic.

I'll repeat, deep benches are overrated.

[UAdevil]

As usual, shrinking scrotum

It must be cold there.

[EVCat]

One of the most overrated aspects of the college game is the idea of a deep bench.

40 minute games. 40 minutes. Less than half of a soccer player in full motion.

Breaks mandated at every 4 minute interval. In the NCAA's, these turn into 2:45 breaks. Then halftime.

Never more than 2 games a week.

And we are supposed to believe players minutes in GAMES, which makes up maybe a tenth of the actual physical work they do in a week, matter from 36 to 32?

18-23 year old men in monitored, fantastic shape. Play no more than 4 minutes on average before a 1 to 2 minute break, do that 5 times before a 15 minute break (or whatever halftime is) . Then, they are run through the gauntlet of having to play no more than 4 minutes 5 more times without a 1 to 2 minute break at each stoppage after 4 minutes. And, really, it's more like 10 or more rests during that last 20 minutes due to game end time outs.

40 minutes of play, about half of that in a halfcourt set, with at least 10 breaks of 1 to 2 minutes and a 15 minute halftime. Whew....just killer. And two..TWO WHOLE TIMES A WEEK!?!?

How can they stand?

They do more physically in one week of practice than they do in a month of games...game minutes, over a 40 game season, mean jack shit from the 30 to 40 mark

[Merkin]

Doesn't TJ run like 5 miles a game? I think Nick was next highest at 4 last year.

Soccer players run 7 miles per match.

When I used to play, it wasn't the up and down the court, it was the up and down that wore me out. Me with my 6" vertical leap.

[Chicat]

The fatigue a college player experiences over the course of a season is probably 80% mental. With travel, practices, classes, exams, the training room, team events, and any kind of social life, the amount of down time they have is probably really small in comparison to the average college student.

What I find funny is that there is this notion that players can't develop unless they get a lot of time playing in games. If that's really the case, why do coaches make these kids practice so much? Getting up to game speed is one thing, but if anyone thinks any player is going to become a vastly improved player because they got 10 minutes instead of 5, they're wrong. Development and conditioning happen in practice both during and after/before the season. Dusan will get better at defense by working hard at it in practice, not by watching guys in other team's jerseys blow by him on their way to the hoop in a real game.

[dan]

Agree its basically a non-factor in CBB. There is of course a balance coaches have to maintain to get younger players game experience.

Also, we have a bench - Ristic, PJC, Pitts all contributors this year. If you want to see a bad bench, look at UCLA. Do people think elite CBB teams go 10 deep (excepting UK this year obviously..)

In the NBA, its completely different primarily because of specialization, but also because of the length of the season and the wide age gap.

[EVCat]

The fatigue a college player experiences over the course of a season is probably 80% mental. With travel, practices, classes, exams, the training room, team events, and any kind of social life, the amount of down time they have is probably really small in comparison to the average college student.

Totally agree. Changing their in-game minutes from 34 to 29 a game won't yield anything tangible. This is the very thing they go through all the other crap to get to. The extra 5 minutes playing time without a sub has zero impact compared to the rest of the mental grind.

And to your non-quoted point about development in practice....I'd also agree. Prior to such common early entry, great teams stayed great because they had great underclassmen playing against great upperclassmen 5 times a week, champing at the bit to get their chance. Then they did get their chance, as upperclassmen, and maintained the greatness, because they were developing in practice every week against the best players in the country. Is it game experience? No. But game experience before a player is ready to perform in the game environment can be more detrimental than helpful.

We solidly play 9 players this year. Real minutes, not garbage. Ristic, York, Pitts, and PJC all see important, competitive minutes. Sometimes 5, sometimes 20. But we have nothing even close to a short bench this year. If anything, having both York and Pitts keeps one of the two from comfortably asserting themselves as the go to shooting 2. And what happens in a game matters...I am sure if Ristic had walked into the ASU game, grabbed a board, backed down in the post and found an open shooter, and then altered a shot, all in 5 or 6 possessions, he would have played 15 + minutes in that particular game, given Zeus' s struggles and our foul issues/finishes at the rim after perimeter breakdowns. But what happened was he walked onto the court, looked into the eyes of an oncoming train, mistook Thomas the Tank Engine for an Amtrak SuperLiner, and pretty much shat himself in record time. He had to come out.