Officiating

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:26 pm

they had three blatant flops tonight that were absolutely terrible. Definitely pro utah whistle all night and i was shocked they made that behind the basket call late.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:28 pm

Refs were bad all over the place tonight. Screwed Utah on a couple calls too, but we've all seen enough of that Flagrant 1 monitor review. Contact technical?!?!

They need to reward the ones who simply let the players play, not the ones who think they are following the rulebook to the letter.

Make the post flop a play-on next season and see how many bodies hit the floor.

Lute4God · Post by **Lute4God** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:31 pm

thanks for posting this vine... Refs were amazingly bad but somehow the Cats kept with the game!

note: I will probably never get to watch a game at my aunt's house again due to this flop.

psiclist23 · Post by **psiclist23** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:36 pm

I swear, I can hardly stand to watch these games. The officiating is ruining it for me. The games are all ref's; it's like ice skating.
Answer me this: based on what you saw tonight, and how that game was going, how would it have turned out if the refs called the games the way we think they should? I mean 100% fairly.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:37 pm

catgrad97 wrote:Refs were bad all over the place tonight. Screwed Utah on a couple calls too, but we've all seen enough of that Flagrant 1 monitor review. Contact technical?!?!

They need to reward the ones who simply let the players play, not the ones who think they are following the rulebook to the letter.

Make the post flop a play-on next season and see how many bodies hit the floor.

They missed a ball Bash knocked out, I remember a charge we drew that probably should have been a blocking foul. Im sure im missing one or two more, but you can count our gifts on one hand. Their gifts though...

Daryl Zero · Post by **Daryl Zero** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:38 pm

Its so weird that the Pac12 won't allow a big man to back in. That has been part of the game forever. I see Okafor from Duke smashing guys out of position without a foul call but Tarc has never been allowed to do this.

3goggles · Post by **3goggles** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:43 pm

Daryl Zero wrote:Its so weird that the Pac12 won't allow a big man to back in. That has been part of the game forever. I see Okafor from Duke smashing guys out of position without a foul call but Tarc has never been allowed to do this.

I saw in the game before ours

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:47 pm

Is it even worth commenting about PAC officials anymore? I mean it's beyond anything at this point....

Just win and fuck the PAC 12, fucking cheating shitty conference...

3goggles · Post by **3goggles** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:48 pm

What a joke! It's going to take a coach with balls of steel to pull his team from a game because of this officiating

azcat49 · Post by **azcat49** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:50 pm

Olsondogg wrote:Is it even worth commenting about PAC officials anymore? I mean it's beyond anything at this point....

Just win and fuck the PAC 12, fucking cheating shitty conference...

Coach Miller, is that you

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:52 pm

rgdeuce wrote:
catgrad97 wrote:Refs were bad all over the place tonight. Screwed Utah on a couple calls too, but we've all seen enough of that Flagrant 1 monitor review. Contact technical?!?!

They need to reward the ones who simply let the players play, not the ones who think they are following the rulebook to the letter.

Make the post flop a play-on next season and see how many bodies hit the floor.
They missed a ball Bash knocked out, I remember a charge we drew that probably should have been a blocking foul. Im sure im missing one or two more, but you can count our gifts on one hand. Their gifts though...

They missed the whole point of the game. Again. "The Pac-12: The conference of crappy refs!"

And this was probably the conference's best crew tonight, which is truly damning with faint praise. They desperately need a consultant from the ACC or Big East, even if it is that mf'er Karl Hess.

psiclist23 · Post by **psiclist23** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:55 pm

Olsondogg wrote:Is it even worth commenting about PAC officials anymore? I mean it's beyond anything at this point....

Just win and fuck the PAC 12, fucking cheating shitty conference...

Yeah, you're right. The game was 40 minutes, there was a half-time break, one team was victorious, the ref's sucked.

BTW, I don't ever remember seeing a game where the uniforms were so close to the same color. That can't have made the refereeing any easier.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 10:59 pm

rgdeuce wrote:
catgrad97 wrote:Refs were bad all over the place tonight. Screwed Utah on a couple calls too, but we've all seen enough of that Flagrant 1 monitor review. Contact technical?!?!

They need to reward the ones who simply let the players play, not the ones who think they are following the rulebook to the letter.

Make the post flop a play-on next season and see how many bodies hit the floor.
They missed a ball Bash knocked out, I remember a charge we drew that probably should have been a blocking foul. Im sure im missing one or two more, but you can count our gifts on one hand. Their gifts though...

The bad calls made the pace of the game favor Utah but the bad calls were even. Utah did not get more bad calls in their favor

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:02 pm

It's past the point of keeping track of who had the most bad calls in their favor. The fact that the biggest game for the PAC, a game that's been hyped for weeks, on national TV...they roll it out like that. It's just terrible.

I mean, Vegas is gonna be really fun...but the shitfest is gonna be epic. I will have no voice by halftime on Thursday...

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Sat Feb 28, 2015 11:53 pm

teemackdee · Post by **teemackdee** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 1:28 am

Olsondogg wrote:

I saw this when it happened and thought it was so great. I love our Coach.

Frybry02 · Post by **Frybry02** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:11 am

We got a lot of calls in the 2nd.

PieceOfMeat · Post by **PieceOfMeat** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:17 am

Olsondogg wrote:Is it even worth commenting about PAC officials anymore? I mean it's beyond anything at this point....

Just win and fuck the PAC 12, fucking cheating shitty conference...

If we never mentioned things that were repetitive, there'd be almost nothing to talk about.

::::

as for that Miller gif, is he saying "mother fucker" ?

teemackdee · Post by **teemackdee** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:28 am

That is what I like to think he is saying since it's what I wanted to yell out.

CBCat · Post by **CBCat** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 7:58 am

Olsondogg wrote:Is it even worth commenting about PAC officials anymore? I mean it's beyond anything at this point....

Just win and fuck the PAC 12, fucking cheating shitty conference...

It's true.

And I agree with the poster above Odogg, it's ruining the game for me too.

It almost made me laugh all the make up calls. Usually there will be like one maybe a second one in a college game. There were like 6 last night. They were trying.

azcat34 · Post by **azcat34** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:02 am

It would be great to see how many charges are called in Arizona games compared to the rest of the Top 10.

Good For You · Post by **Good For You** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:18 am

The officials were bad and both teams have plenty to complain about BUT the tech on Zeus and Ashley's phantom foul at the shot clock buzzer was 7 points for Utah. SEVEN in an ugly low scoring defensive game. That's huge. Coupled with calling everything, disrupting the flow, getting both teams in foul trouble, slowing things down, and generally making it an ugly game it's as if by design to make the game close and give any team not named Arizona a better chance at a positive outcome. If you can't blatantly cheat for one team, just call everything and muck it up so it's difficult for the better team to get any distance. No I will not take off my tin foil hat.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:21 am

rgdeuce wrote:
catgrad97 wrote:Refs were bad all over the place tonight. Screwed Utah on a couple calls too, but we've all seen enough of that Flagrant 1 monitor review. Contact technical?!?!

They need to reward the ones who simply let the players play, not the ones who think they are following the rulebook to the letter.

Make the post flop a play-on next season and see how many bodies hit the floor.
They missed a ball Bash knocked out, I remember a charge we drew that probably should have been a blocking foul. Im sure im missing one or two more, but you can count our gifts on one hand. Their gifts though...

The greatest gift might have been York's lane violation on his free throw put back.

The refs were not good last night. Makes me wonder how much in-season instruction they get. I'm guessing none.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:29 am

Olsondogg wrote:It's past the point of keeping track of who had the most bad calls in their favor. The fact that the biggest game for the PAC, a game that's been hyped for weeks, on national TV...they roll it out like that. It's just terrible.

I mean, Vegas is gonna be really fun...but the shitfest is gonna be epic. I will have no voice by halftime on Thursday...

It was hilarious how the sideline reporter talked about the "weeks of emails" exchanged between Utah and the Pac-12 offices about court-rushing procedures that ultimately were all moot anyway.

Yet for the ref crew, it's SOP, only moreso.

I saw former Cat Randy Robbins call a good high school semifinal game in Prescott two days ago. He can keep up with the game, why can't these 20 jokers?

And yes, Chi, these guys are rudderless in conference play. No in-season instruction.

This is why the Pac-12 is the only bottom - heavy power conference in college basketball.

Daryl Zero · Post by **Daryl Zero** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:30 am

Chicat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:
catgrad97 wrote:Refs were bad all over the place tonight. Screwed Utah on a couple calls too, but we've all seen enough of that Flagrant 1 monitor review. Contact technical?!?!

They need to reward the ones who simply let the players play, not the ones who think they are following the rulebook to the letter.

Make the post flop a play-on next season and see how many bodies hit the floor.
They missed a ball Bash knocked out, I remember a charge we drew that probably should have been a blocking foul. Im sure im missing one or two more, but you can count our gifts on one hand. Their gifts though...
The greatest gift might have been York's lane violation on his free throw put back.

The refs were not good last night. Makes me wonder how much in-season instruction they get. I'm guessing none.

Was it a lane violation? I watched the replay from behind and thought he didn't move off the line until the ball hit the rim which is what I thought the rule was.

Longhorned · Post by **Longhorned** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 8:34 am

I'll buy that it's a lane violation because somebody must have a better angle than I have, but if so, it's a close call. Of all the bad calls last night, there's merit in giving the tie to the runner on that play because the shooter rebounded the ball under the basket.

PHXCATS · Post by **PHXCATS** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:27 am

Good For You wrote:The officials were bad and both teams have plenty to complain about BUT the tech on Zeus and Ashley's phantom foul at the shot clock buzzer was 7 points for Utah. SEVEN in an ugly low scoring defensive game. That's huge. Coupled with calling everything, disrupting the flow, getting both teams in foul trouble, slowing things down, and generally making it an ugly game it's as if by design to make the game close and give any team not named Arizona a better chance at a positive outcome. If you can't blatantly cheat for one team, just call everything and muck it up so it's difficult for the better team to get any distance. No I will not take off my tin foil hat.

UA got at least seven in make ups.

Salty · Post by **Salty** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:37 am

There was an out of bounds call late that should have gone to Utah.

Refs made bad calls on both teams. Those charges were a little eyebrow raising though.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 9:56 am

Salty wrote:There was an out of bounds call late that should have gone to Utah.

Make up call. There was an out of bounds play earlier that should have gone to Arizona.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:06 am

Daryl Zero wrote:
Chicat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:
catgrad97 wrote:Refs were bad all over the place tonight. Screwed Utah on a couple calls too, but we've all seen enough of that Flagrant 1 monitor review. Contact technical?!?!

They need to reward the ones who simply let the players play, not the ones who think they are following the rulebook to the letter.

Make the post flop a play-on next season and see how many bodies hit the floor.
They missed a ball Bash knocked out, I remember a charge we drew that probably should have been a blocking foul. Im sure im missing one or two more, but you can count our gifts on one hand. Their gifts though...
The greatest gift might have been York's lane violation on his free throw put back.

The refs were not good last night. Makes me wonder how much in-season instruction they get. I'm guessing none.
Was it a lane violation? I watched the replay from behind and thought he didn't move off the line until the ball hit the rim which is what I thought the rule was.

From behind it looks like his first step into the lane is before it hit the rim. http://www.snappytv.com/tc/496884

Since it's the Pac12 I actually expect them to make that call since it so rarely happens. The refs in this conference just love the obscure demonstrative call.

Frybry02 · Post by **Frybry02** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:07 am

Good For You wrote:The officials were bad and both teams have plenty to complain about BUT the tech on Zeus and Ashley's phantom foul at the shot clock buzzer was 7 points for Utah. SEVEN in an ugly low scoring defensive game. That's huge. Coupled with calling everything, disrupting the flow, getting both teams in foul trouble, slowing things down, and generally making it an ugly game it's as if by design to make the game close and give any team not named Arizona a better chance at a positive outcome. If you can't blatantly cheat for one team, just call everything and muck it up so it's difficult for the better team to get any distance. No I will not take off my tin foil hat.

I believe they got the tech on Zeus correct. He cleared through with his left elbow, which was find. But then he followed through (down) with his right in which he made contact with Bachynski's face

dmjcat · Post by **dmjcat** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 10:14 am

The officiating was inconsistent and bad.....but it cut both ways. Hard to say either side got an advantage.

My biggest issue with the officiating is that it WILL affect our play come tourney time. How many UA NCAA 1st round games have we seen in the past 20 years where the Cats have only 2 or 3 fouls in the 1st half.........because they are playing tenatively to avoid fouls. It usually ends up taking at least one NCAA tourney game for the Cats to figure out that they can actually breathe on someone without a whistle.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 11:05 am

Chicat wrote:
Daryl Zero wrote:
Chicat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:
catgrad97 wrote:Refs were bad all over the place tonight. Screwed Utah on a couple calls too, but we've all seen enough of that Flagrant 1 monitor review. Contact technical?!?!

They need to reward the ones who simply let the players play, not the ones who think they are following the rulebook to the letter.

Make the post flop a play-on next season and see how many bodies hit the floor.
They missed a ball Bash knocked out, I remember a charge we drew that probably should have been a blocking foul. Im sure im missing one or two more, but you can count our gifts on one hand. Their gifts though...
The greatest gift might have been York's lane violation on his free throw put back.

The refs were not good last night. Makes me wonder how much in-season instruction they get. I'm guessing none.
Was it a lane violation? I watched the replay from behind and thought he didn't move off the line until the ball hit the rim which is what I thought the rule was.
From behind it looks like his first step into the lane is before it hit the rim. http://www.snappytv.com/tc/496884

Since it's the Pac12 I actually expect them to make that call since it so rarely happens. The refs in this conference just love the obscure demonstrative call.

Good find. I don't have a DVR so couldn't rewatch it, but thought he left too soon also.

Saw an interview with York after the game. He said he waited until it bounced twice before he went after it. Not the case in that video.

Is that not reviewable? I thought for sure K was going to protest that one too.

catgrad97 · Post by **catgrad97** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:15 pm

K had tossed the jacket 10 minutes ago and was doing a slow burn on the sidelines. He didn't want to cost his team points that late.

Chicat wrote:
Daryl Zero wrote:
Chicat wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:
catgrad97 wrote:Refs were bad all over the place tonight. Screwed Utah on a couple calls too, but we've all seen enough of that Flagrant 1 monitor review. Contact technical?!?!

They need to reward the ones who simply let the players play, not the ones who think they are following the rulebook to the letter.

Make the post flop a play-on next season and see how many bodies hit the floor.
They missed a ball Bash knocked out, I remember a charge we drew that probably should have been a blocking foul. Im sure im missing one or two more, but you can count our gifts on one hand. Their gifts though...
The greatest gift might have been York's lane violation on his free throw put back.

The refs were not good last night. Makes me wonder how much in-season instruction they get. I'm guessing none.
Was it a lane violation? I watched the replay from behind and thought he didn't move off the line until the ball hit the rim which is what I thought the rule was.
From behind it looks like his first step into the lane is before it hit the rim. http://www.snappytv.com/tc/496884

Since it's the Pac12 I actually expect them to make that call since it so rarely happens. The refs in this conference just love the obscure demonstrative call.

Just because it's never been called before doesn't mean it should be. See the TJ charge for further evidence.

It's the most obvious symptom of a conference game management system that only rewards the "Look at me!" calls.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 12:33 pm

PieceOfMeat wrote:
Olsondogg wrote:Is it even worth commenting about PAC officials anymore? I mean it's beyond anything at this point....

Just win and fuck the PAC 12, fucking cheating shitty conference...
If we never mentioned things that were repetitive, there'd be almost nothing to talk about.

::::

as for that Miller gif, is he saying "mother fucker" ?

Yes.

Salty · Post by **Salty** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 3:41 pm

UAEebs86 wrote:
Salty wrote:There was an out of bounds call late that should have gone to Utah.
Make up call. There was an out of bounds play earlier that should have gone to Arizona.

Make up calls near the end of the game?

Doesn't happen.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:03 pm

It happened from opening tip to final whistle. Mostly because the refs had a lot of things to make up for.

UAtrue · Post by **UAtrue** » Sun Mar 01, 2015 5:18 pm

for a while I was trying to keep track of the number of bad calls going both ways. Used the DVR to go back several times; sometimes slowed it down to get a real good look.

If it wasnt fairly obvious I didn't call it.

Couldnt believe how high my count was getting, but it was fairly even both sides.

Finally got sick of it. I was spending so much time just tracking that. Decided to just cover my eyes whenever anyone was driving for the basket.

azcat34 · Post by **azcat34** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:00 am

Katzenfreund · Post by **Katzenfreund** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:51 am

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 11:54 am

How many of those 26 Utah fouls were at the end of the game to stop the clock? 4? 5? There's no disparity.

Katzenfreund · Post by **Katzenfreund** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:17 pm

Lute4God · Post by **Lute4God** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 12:47 pm

Katzenfreund wrote:There was an 18 to 12 foul disparity when I checked, sometime in the middle of the game. Utah was five to seven fouls ahead of us throughout the majority of the contest. They committed three fouls in the last 35 seconds. Measured against the difference in game plans, the foul disparity had been relatively moderate. Arizona was the better team and won deservedly.

Stanley drove all the way to the rim about 8 times. He also shot point blank another 5 or 6 on put backs. The refs blew their whistles once!

Kudos to Stanley for not giving up.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Mar 02, 2015 1:02 pm

Stanley couldn't get a call to save his life. On RHJ's last dunk, he was also fouled. Another dude went over TJ's back on a board in the closing minute. TJ's offensive foul in the closing minutes (the motherfucker moment)...come on...

Should I go on?

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:16 am

http://tucson.com/sports/columnists/art ... 91642.html

The truth, the whole truth, half-truths, shades of the truth and other items admissible as into-the-madness-we-go news:
Item I: It was disconcerting to watch referees Bob Staffen and Larry Spaulding walk into the Huntsman Center on Saturday. In what was essentially the Pac-12 championship game, the league sent two refs who have never worked in the Pac-12 tournament, which is symbolic of the league’s top referees.

Staffen’s two previous assignments were Grand Canyon vs. Texas-Pan American and UNLV vs. Utah State. Spaulding’s two most recent games were Rice-Florida International and Fresno State-Wyoming.

They were part of a 46-foul fiasco that required 2½ hours and was marred by lengthy reviews at TV monitors. It made the league look bad.

The third official was Dave Hall, a veteran of the Final Four and among the handful of the lead officials in the West. He couldn’t save the flow of the game.

How bad is a 46-foul game? At the 2005 Elite Eight, in which Illinois beat Arizona 90-89 in overtime, there were 28 fouls. At the 2011 Elite Eight, in which UConn beat Arizona 65-63, there were 27 fouls.

Those games were called by elite-level officials.

The league’s top refs, all Final Four vets, were scattered over the map on Saturday. Dick Cartmell worked the Boise State-San Diego State game. Randy McCall was at the Air Force-Utah State game. Verne Harris called the Wyoming-UNLV game.

The Pac-12 makes its game assignments long before the season begins. Most referees know where they’ll be working, week to week, before October. That happens because many of the officials have day jobs; they make their travel plans and work schedules months in advance.

But it is on the Pac-12 to better anticipate showcase games; Arizona and Utah were generally picked to finish 1-2 in the league last summer. To staff such a meaningful game with a substandard officiating crew reflects poorly on the entire Pac-12 basketball operation.

pokinmik · Post by **pokinmik** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 8:21 am

I basically expect every P12 game to be double bonus for both teams before either half is up. So that's at least 40 fouls per game right there, which is ridiculous.

Bosy Billups · Post by **Bosy Billups** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 9:17 am

As long as we win, moving on.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:16 am

pokinmik wrote:I basically expect every P12 game to be double bonus for both teams before either half is up. So that's at least 40 fouls per game right there, which is ridiculous.

What's funny is that when I first saw 46 fouls I thought that was fairly normal. I must be a PAC-12 fan.

To me though it's not the number, it's the situation and consistency. If you're going to call a touch foul 30 feet from the basket in the last 5 minutes you better have called that all game long. And don't let shit go around the basket because Stanley is built like a Mack truck and Zeus is 7 feet tall. If it's a foul for the opponent then it's a foul for Arizona too.

And for fuck's sake quit with the makeup calls!!!

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Tue Mar 03, 2015 10:26 am

Yeah most people expect 20-30 fouls in games. We expect that many per half.

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