TJ McConnell's 'MAGIC' Numbers

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:19 am

Closing in on Bibby's single season school record. Most Important Player.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:32 am

azgreg wrote:

That can't possibly be right.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:42 am

Merkin wrote:
That can't possibly be right.

344 would get him in the Top 10 all time.

How many did he have at Duquesne?

scumdevils86 · Post by **scumdevils86** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:44 am

He has 321 currently which is good enough for a tie for 24th all time in division 1 history. He needs 65 more to break the all time record.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:45 am

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ ... ls_leaders

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:46 am

UAEebs86 wrote:
Merkin wrote:
That can't possibly be right.
344 would get him in the Top 10 all time.

How many did he have at Duquesne?

He has 321 total.

http://www.sports-reference.com/cbb/pla ... ell-1.html

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:49 am

Well if we get to the title game and he averages 6 per game until then..

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:51 am

Merkin wrote:
azgreg wrote:
That can't possibly be right.

23, not 4

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:52 am

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:53 am

His average steals per game was 1.0 per game higher at Duquesne than Arizona. Would probably have gotten the record if he hadn't been a traitor.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:55 am

gumby wrote:http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ ... ls_leaders

Someone needs to edit the Wikipedia page and add TJ. He's now tied with The Glove and Garner from Memphis.

gumby · Post by **gumby** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:57 am

Needs 7 to tie Bibby for single season

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:18 am

Lute4God · Post by **Lute4God** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 9:18 pm

COACH MATTA: The MVP for Arizona was McConnell. That kid was unbelievable both offensively and defensively today. Just did a great, great job. I kind of like coaching because he's out there having the time of his life.

From the Presser thread. Opposing coaches know, or should know, who our mvp is. Kid is nails and "having the time of his life"!

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:25 pm

But he's just a role player-Ohio state fans

He doesn't score 20 ppg so he doesn't deserve the conference poy-Oregon fans

salim'sheadband · Post by **salim'sheadband** » Sun Mar 22, 2015 10:33 pm

Yes apparently College Basketball Reference only counts leaders from 1997 on even though it keeps stats from longer than that. Kind of pissed me off, actually. I hate being wrong about that shit.

But yes, he would need about 20 more. Not 4 more.

HiCat · Post by **HiCat** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 7:18 am

Lute4God wrote:
COACH MATTA: The MVP for Arizona was McConnell. That kid was unbelievable both offensively and defensively today. Just did a great, great job. I kind of like coaching because he's out there having the time of his life.
From the Presser thread. Opposing coaches know, or should know, who our mvp is. Kid is nails and "having the time of his life"!

Right on point. TJ was the MVP, his defense was beautiful to watch.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:29 am

I am recalling a convo that I had a couple of days before Xmas with an older alum. He was commenting on how piss poor our offense was under Miller and how he couldn't wait until TJ graduated and moved on cause he was "sick of hearing how great a practice player was and never seeing it on the floor". He commented that he doubted all he heard from Miller and Olson and such about him as a teammate and that if things don't produce on the floor, it doesn't matter. He was overratted and this and that....basically I stopped listening at some point, and found my 2 year old and had fun with him.

I am recalling that convo now, because I wonder how it would sound today...

pokinmik · Post by **pokinmik** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:35 am

Olsondogg wrote:I am recalling a convo that I had a couple of days before Xmas with an older alum. He was commenting on how piss poor our offense was under Miller and how he couldn't wait until TJ graduated and moved on cause he was "sick of hearing how great a practice player was and never seeing it on the floor". He commented that he doubted all he heard from Miller and Olson and such about him as a teammate and that if things don't produce on the floor, it doesn't matter. He was overratted and this and that....basically I stopped listening at some point, and found my 2 year old and had fun with him.

I am recalling that convo now, because I wonder how it would sound today...

There are alot of idiots out there. Poor bastard that guy.

ASUHATER! · Post by **ASUHATER!** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:37 am

At work on Thursday I had some guy telling me he's convinced that Stanley, Rondae, Ashley and Tarc are all coming back like Florida had in 2007.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:39 am

ASUHATER! wrote:At work on Thursday I had some guy telling me he's convinced that Stanley, Rondae, Ashley and Tarc are all coming back like Florida had in 2007.

Tell him drinking on the job is bad

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:45 am

If we don't see Ashley and Tarc back it will be interesting to see where they end up. An argument can be made for Rondae to come back (one of those "you'll make more money over the life of your career by being more ready when you make the jump" kind of thing that is almost always ignored...to their detriment).

As we all know there's no argument or possibility for Stanley staying.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:50 am

Draftexpress has RHJ going 24th, so a salary of $1M per year.

Like Lute said, it's not the first contract, it's the second.

Ashley seems to be getting the Michael Wright treatment from draft scouts.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:53 am

Merkin wrote:Draftexpress has RHJ going 24th, so a salary of $1M per year.

Like Lute said, it's not the first contract, it's the second.

Ashley seems to be getting the Michael Wright treatment from draft scouts.

Yep. And barring some crazy injury, there is no way in hell Rondae isn't getting a second contract.

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:55 am

Merkin wrote:Draftexpress has RHJ going 24th, so a salary of $1M per year.

Like Lute said, it's not the first contract, it's the second.

Ashley seems to be getting the Michael Wright treatment from draft scouts.

Exactly second contract is the only important one. Everything should be done to maximize the chance of getting a good second contract, so an argument can be made that staying would help that chance. But as I said, it will be ignored as it almost always is.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:56 am

We are going to miss TJ McConnell more than any other player in the last 25 years.

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:57 am

Chicat wrote:We are going to miss TJ McConnell more than any other player in the last 25 years.

I will miss him, but that is bold statement.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:58 am

Olsondogg wrote:
Chicat wrote:We are going to miss TJ McConnell more than any other player in the last 25 years.
I will miss him, but that is bold statement.

I know.

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:00 am

rgdeuce wrote:Yep. And barring some crazy injury, there is no way in hell Rondae isn't getting a second contract.

Ummm, well there is if Rondae gets to the league and can't score. We can already scratch jumpers off the list. That leaves getting to the rim which is much tougher in the NBA than it is in college.

So he shows no ability to score and his coach leaving him on bench more and more. Eventually he isn't playing much at all. Three years go by. Second contract is for $2M a year instead of $10M a year. And before you say "Well it isn't going to happen here" it happens time after time after time in the league.

Again none of us know exactly what is going to happen in the future...and that is exactly why you have to know you're ready when you make the jump, not hope you're ready.

pokinmik · Post by **pokinmik** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:11 am

RHJ is going to climb up draft boards and will go top-20. He will then proceed to make tens of millions in the NBA by playing defense, hustling, dunking, and rebounding. And his shot isn't so bad that he can't improve in that area. His free throws are already solid.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:13 am

Olsondogg · Post by **Olsondogg** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:17 am

Chicat wrote:
Olsondogg wrote:
Chicat wrote:We are going to miss TJ McConnell more than any other player in the last 25 years.
I will miss him, but that is bold statement.
I know.

I'd agree with your sentiment Chicat, if he were a 4 year cat. I'll miss him alot, and I know his heart will be left in Tucson...but he was an opponent that I wanted to beat when he first played in McKale. For that reason he doesn't top my list.

I actually feel similar, but in a different way about NJ. I really love Nick Johnson as a player.....and he'd be close to top of my list if he had played 4 years. For me, to be a truly beloved Wildcat, requires a 4 year requirement.

But that's just me.

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:19 am

On in less than five. Here's the Tucson link:

http://player.streamtheworld.com/livepl ... ign=KCUBAM

Merkin wrote:

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:19 am

pokinmik wrote:RHJ is going to climb up draft boards and will go top-20. He will then proceed to make tens of millions in the NBA by playing defense, hustling, dunking, and rebounding. And his shot isn't so bad that he can't improve in that area. His free throws are already solid.

You've laid out the one hundred million dollar gamble. Time will tell.

I mean I personally would want to do all the work I could to make sure the one important thing in my life had the best chance possible to go the best way it could.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:26 am

SCCats wrote:
rgdeuce wrote:Yep. And barring some crazy injury, there is no way in hell Rondae isn't getting a second contract.
Ummm, well there is if Rondae gets to the league and can't score. We can already scratch jumpers off the list. That leaves getting to the rim which is much tougher in the NBA than it is in college.

So he shows no ability to score and his coach leaving him on bench more and more. Eventually he isn't playing much at all. Three years go by. Second contract is for $2M a year instead of $10M a year. And before you say "Well it isn't going to happen here" it happens time after time after time in the league.

Again none of us know exactly what is going to happen in the future...and that is exactly why you have to know you're ready when you make the jump, not hope you're ready.

Rondae is going to be one of the best defenders in the league... You know who else couldn't shoot and wasn't considered much of a scorer in the league but played top-level defense, Tony Allen. Being a Celtics fan, I saw as many Tony Allen games as I have seen games Rondae played. Rondae also has a three-inch height advantage, a 7-foot wingspan (not sure of Allen's, but its not close to that), is a better rebounder, is a better finisher around the rim, finishes through contact better, and gets to the line more.

He will not be a team's 2nd, 3rd, or even fourth best scoring option (at least not for a while). But there is ALWAYS a place on an NBA team for an elite defender on the wing. There will always be a place on an NBA team for a guy who can shut down most 1's, 2's and 3's in the league. Some guys you just cant guard, but Rondae will give u a better chance on those guys than anybody. Rondae's shot is not broken. You see him do well at the line. His faults are fixable with practice, elite-coaching and time. He will have a shooting coach. His shooting faults mostly come from improper balance, mechanical and very fixable. His ball handling can be improved. He is an elite-athlete with great size. He will score in transition, in clean up, and teams ignoring him to double other players or being worried about teammates in screening situations. A coach will reel him in and have him play within their system and worry about defending and rebounding and he will not be handling the ball like he does here.

Basically Rondae is going to be better than Tony Allen at worst, and he has the potential to be more than that. Tony Allen has played in 11 seasons and earned more than $23 million.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:31 am

Olsondogg wrote:
Chicat wrote:
Olsondogg wrote:
Chicat wrote:We are going to miss TJ McConnell more than any other player in the last 25 years.
I will miss him, but that is bold statement.
I know.
I'd agree with your sentiment Chicat, if he were a 4 year cat. I'll miss him alot, and I know his heart will be left in Tucson...but he was an opponent that I wanted to beat when he first played in McKale. For that reason he doesn't top my list.

I actually feel similar, but in a different way about NJ. I really love Nick Johnson as a player.....and he'd be close to top of my list if he had played 4 years. For me, to be a truly beloved Wildcat, requires a 4 year requirement.

But that's just me.

I'm more thinking about it from a impact vs. aftermath perspective. I almost said 10 years because when Jason Gardner left Mustafa Shakur took over. But most people were down on JG (too short) and excited about a guy who was right there with Chris Paul in the rankings. When Jet left there were a lot of people wondering if Arizona would ever be the same, but JG and that the rest of that crew seemed to be an upgrade talent-wise over what we had on the court in '99 so there wasn't that kind of feeling of loss amongst the fanbase.

Next year I know people will be happy with PJC and Simon, but we are really going to miss TJ. There will be losses where people will be compelled to admit that if TJ had been running the team he wouldn't have let it happen. And in fact, his legend will likely grow as the year(s) move along. The talent pipeline will continue to deliver but we'll still be saying, "Yeah, but no one ran the team like TJ McConnell."

UAEebs86 · Post by **UAEebs86** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:39 am

My stream died but not before Rome got him to say he has a better handle than Coach Miller and Coach Stoudamire.
(he tried to be politically correct).

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:43 am

rgdeuce wrote: Rondae is going to be one of the best defenders in the league... You know who else couldn't shoot and wasn't considered much of a scorer in the league but played top-level defense, Tony Allen. Being a Celtics fan, I saw as many Tony Allen games as I have seen games Rondae played. Rondae also has a three-inch height advantage, a 7-foot wingspan (not sure of Allen's, but its not close to that), is a better rebounder, is a better finisher around the rim, finishes through contact better, and gets to the line more.

Sounds good. And how much is that type of player worth? Oh we've got a figure...

Basically Rondae is going to be better than Tony Allen at worst, and he has the potential to be more than that. Tony Allen has played in 11 seasons and earned more than $23 million.

Put a consistent jump shot on that and that 11 year salary figure is $150M instead of $23M.

Also if you're that $150M dollar guy you probably tack on $100M in endorsements instead of $10M over those 11 years.

$250M v. $33M?

I don't know what I'd do to make that difference occur, but for me personally I would go ahead and guess "potentially stay a couple more years at Arizona" would probably make the cut.

Merkin · Post by **Merkin** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:43 am

Chicat wrote: Next year I know people will be happy with PJC and Simon, but we are really going to mis TJ.

Going to be very hard to replace a 5th year senior who many pundits felt should have been the PAC-12 POY.

PJC was really exposed at Utah for being too short to handle taller guards. Simon is 6'5", and a good defender, but still a true freshman and used to playing AAU tempo, not Sean Miller tempo.

I think we are going to see a lot of York at PG with Trier at the 2G.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:51 am

SCCats wrote:Put a consistent jump shot on that and that 11 year salary figure is $150M instead of $23M.

Also if you're that $150M dollar guy you probably tack on $100M in endorsements instead of $10M over those 11 years.

$250M v. $33M?

I don't know what I'd do to make that difference occur, but for me personally I would go ahead and guess "potentially stay a couple more years at Arizona" would probably make the cut.

Easier to fix a jumpshot as a professional, where his job is basketball full time, rather than having to juggle school and ball. This thinking of players sticking around to get more money, as a means to greatly improve their flaws, etc. is archaic, and in more cases than not, incorrect. The game has changed. NBA GM's know what they are getting with RHJ and that isn't going to change in another season at Arizona. One year at Arizona is not going to make him a $250 million player v 33 Million. That second contract is earned in the league, not in college.

Edit: And quite honestly, look at where he is right now compared to last year in terms of draft stock. After last year's tournament, he was a guy who had a slim chance at being a late lottery pick, but was seen as a guaranteed first rounder and likely in that 15-25 range. This year, his chance at being a late lottery pick is about the same, and he is still projected in the same range as last year. Has his offense not improved significantly over last year? Is he not a better player?

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:11 am

rgdeuce wrote:Easier to fix a jumpshot as a professional, where his job is basketball full time, rather than having to juggle school and ball. This thinking of players sticking around to get more money, as a means to greatly improve their flaws, etc. is archaic, and in more cases than not, incorrect. The game has changed. NBA GM's know what they are getting with RHJ and that isn't going to change in another season at Arizona. One year at Arizona is not going to make him a $250 million player v 33 Million. That second contract is earned in the league, not in college.

Would you say that RHJ could end up as a $250M player or a $33M player, that how he develops will help determine how much money he makes as a NBA player?

Look, I know your opinion is the prevailing opinion; I know that and I accept that. I just completely disagree with it. To me it sounds like "the player is who he is, has the talent level he has, and will always grow into this one type of player who can do this and makes this much money. No matter which path he takes to get there, he will always get to exactly the same place."

To put it another way, Was Ndudi Ebi always destined to make his $800K a year for three years sitting on an NBA bench? Or would he potentially had a different career arc if he had come to Arizona?

The work you do matters. Don't put your career into someone else's (like an NBA GM/Coach) hands. Do all the work that you reasonably can to maximize the value of that lottery ticket before you get to the show. Know you're ready, don't hope you're ready.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:58 am

Using Ebi is not a good way to further your argument. The league has changed, you have the d-league which has expanded greatly, summer leagues, etc. that are safety nets for players. I dont think Rondae will need a safety net but its there. Ebi did not have the benefit of the D-league, the wolves waited too long to choose that route. Big difference from a 20 year old kid who has proven over two years he is an elite player among men in college, vs an 18 year old unknown who looked good vs inferior and smaller comp. Not to mention two more years more mature. Much easier to miss on an 18-year-old and have him rot at the end of the bench. Would Ebi have benefitted from coming to Arizona? Who knows. He could have flopped in college too, it happens to a lot of highly regarded college players. He could have done decent and still been a first round pick and flamed out. To think with great certainty that would have greatly altered his NBA career though, that may be a reach. Mustafa Shakur is a good example of a guy who many thought was going to be a stud in the league when he came to campus, but how did that end up? But bad example to use a guy who didnt even go to college vs a guy who went for two years.

And any young players career is at the mercy of NBA coaches and GM's. Rondae is ready for the NBA. He has shown everyone for two years he can play at an extremely high level, if not dominate at one half of the side of the ball in the NBA. People are too caught up in offensive numbers and not seeing the big picture. This happened with Aaron Gordon last year. He went fourth, and had the magic not taken him, he was going 6th to the Boston Celtics for sure, and there was some rumblings the Jazz were going to take him with the 5th pick. Scorers are a dime a dozen and when you get to the league, a lot of them are humbled really quick. Defenders like Rondae and Gordon, with their size and intangibles are rare.

Sorry to ruin your thread TJ

'ZONA97 · Post by **'ZONA97** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:52 pm

You realize dude's from Chester, PA right?

Every year he stays in college is another year his family has to do without. Every game he plays before he goes pro is just another chance to have a career ending injury and POOF... there goes the $$$. Brandon Ashley last year had to hit close to home for him. Not to mention Isaiah Austin, anyone???

He's a first round lock. He has people he needs to take care of. He'll develop just as well (if not better) in the NBA. Barring injury he's a 10+ year pro.

To second guess his decision from where we sit as fans is ridiculous.

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 12:54 pm

rgdeuce wrote: Mustafa Shakur is a good example of a guy who many thought was going to be a stud in the league when he came to campus, but how did that end up? But bad example to use a guy who didnt even go to college vs a guy who went for two years.

Shakur's real talent level was exposed. If he had gone to the league super early he might've made his $1M a year for three years and then been out of the league.

Is that what we're talking about here, if RHJ stays his real talent level might be exposed and he will make zero instead of $3M?

As for Ebi three or four years under Lute may have changed his arc completely. Would that mean Ebi had a chance to make zero instead of $3M like Shakur? It is a statistical possibility. But the much more likely event is Ebi is much more prepared for the game with time under Lute than he would've been otherwise and over the arc of his career makes much more money.

And any young players career is at the mercy of NBA coaches and GM's. Rondae is ready for the NBA. He has shown everyone for two years he can play at an extremely high level, if not dominate at one half of the side of the ball in the NBA. People are too caught up in offensive numbers and not seeing the big picture. This happened with Aaron Gordon last year. He went fourth, and had the magic not taken him, he was going 6th to the Boston Celtics for sure, and there was some rumblings the Jazz were going to take him with the 5th pick. Scorers are a dime a dozen and when you get to the league, a lot of them are humbled really quick. Defenders like Rondae and Gordon, with their size and intangibles are rare.

I get that that's your opinion and the majority opinion by far. "We'll just learn it later."

It's an interesting bet to make on potentially a multi hundred million dollar proposition. The totality of my message would be that I personally would be interested in moving more of the positive variables into my column before I chose to take the risk on NBA GM/Coaches and then the D league. But that's just me.

SCCats · Post by **SCCats** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:01 pm

'ZONA97 wrote:To second guess his decision from where we sit as fans is ridiculous.

It certainly wouldn't be the first time my takes have been called ridiculous.

http://forum.goazcats.com/showthread.ph ... ny+bennett

01-05-2008

'ZONA97 · Post by **'ZONA97** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:12 pm

Oh, I get that you don't give two shits about the specifics of his situation. It's all about how you see it from your narrow, limited perspective. I get that, believe me.

'ZONA97 · Post by **'ZONA97** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:13 pm

And I've now done my part to ruin a great thread as well. I'm finished.

Chicat · Post by **Chicat** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:14 pm

SCCats wrote:
'ZONA97 wrote:To second guess his decision from where we sit as fans is ridiculous.
It certainly wouldn't be the first time my takes have been called ridiculous.

http://forum.goazcats.com/showthread.ph ... ett&page=2

01-05-2008

Congrats, you found the only thread at TOS that I didn't participate in.

rgdeuce · Post by **rgdeuce** » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:16 pm

What positive variables though? His weakness is his jumpshot. Hes a first round lock despite that. He's not going to instantly become a great or even good jumpshooter in one year. That happens for nobody. Its going to take years of hard work and some mechanical adjustments no matter where he plays. You keep talking about multi hundred million dollars, but that money is not going to be left on the table based on a decision of going now or staying another year.

Agree to disagree I guess. I am not one of those who think stock can't rise. I still think Tarc and Bash are guys who would benefit from staying and there are others who disagree. It just makes absolutely no sense for Rondae to return outside of it being a personal decision because he loves college, he loves Arizona, we dont win a national title and he wants one, etc. It's a risk if Rondae was a borderline first rounder, but he is not. The far bigger risk is staying in college and suffering a career ending/ruining injury without getting a dime, and in his case, a guaranteed contract that immediately makes him a millionaire.

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