Bear Down Wildcats

Longhorned wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 8:16 pm

YoDeFoe wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 7:26 pm

azgreg wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 7:22 pm

EastCoastCat wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 3:27 pm Whenever I need a “sky is falling” fix this board never disappoints...

No shit. No group goes 60-0 like this group.

Well we just lost out on two starting caliber players in as many weeks and now we're sitting at 10 scholarship players with no identified prospects left on the board.

The sky isn’t falling, it’s this season’s ceiling that just came crashing down.

This. I hear the call for patience, and how we should appreciate a new coach who convinces a number of existing players to stay. But there's a context here. This isn't about what Lloyd can do given the challenges of taking over. It's about an administrator who fired a coach without cause... a coach who was developing a team with exciting potential in spite of said administrator's yanking the postseason, so that said administrator could bring in "his guy." This is the context for impatience. It's not another "sky is falling" moment after a disappointing regular season loss. It's about throwing away what was, and for what? So that we can exercise patience?

And let me know if anybody else here feels this - and don't get me started on football - but the worst part for me is how this outsider comes in, fires our basketball coach in connection with nothing tangible whatsoever, and then he literally tells us to "Bear Down." Is there anybody hear who feels like this is a little much?

Postmaster wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 10:08 pm Was Creighton in on AK before he committed to UNLV?

YoDeFoe wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 7:26 pm

azgreg wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 7:22 pm

EastCoastCat wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 3:27 pm Whenever I need a “sky is falling” fix this board never disappoints...

No shit. No group goes 60-0 like this group.

Well we just lost out on two starting caliber players in as many weeks and now we're sitting at 10 scholarship players with no identified prospects left on the board.

The sky isn’t falling, it’s this season’s ceiling that just came crashing down.

Longhorned wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 8:16 pm

YoDeFoe wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 7:26 pm

azgreg wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 7:22 pm

EastCoastCat wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 3:27 pm Whenever I need a “sky is falling” fix this board never disappoints...

No shit. No group goes 60-0 like this group.

Well we just lost out on two starting caliber players in as many weeks and now we're sitting at 10 scholarship players with no identified prospects left on the board.

The sky isn’t falling, it’s this season’s ceiling that just came crashing down.

This. I hear the call for patience, and how we should appreciate a new coach who convinces a number of existing players to stay. But there's a context here. This isn't about what Lloyd can do given the challenges of taking over. It's about an administrator who fired a coach without cause... a coach who was developing a team with exciting potential in spite of said administrator's yanking the postseason, so that said administrator could bring in "his guy." This is the context for impatience. It's not another "sky is falling" moment after a disappointing regular season loss. It's about throwing away what was, and for what? So that we can exercise patience?

And let me know if anybody else here feels this - and don't get me started on football - but the worst part for me is how this outsider comes in, fires our basketball coach in connection with nothing tangible whatsoever, and then he literally tells us to "Bear Down." Is there anybody hear who feels like this is a little much?

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:34 am I was told that the Lloyd hire would wash away the dark cloud hovering over the program keeping us from greatness, and that Lute on his death bed told a reporter without saying a word that Miller’s transgressions had destroyed a once great program. I was told that Lloyd was an incredible recruiter who would give us immediate inroads to recruits who would never have considered playing for a program as moribund as Miller’s.

Now I’m being told I need to have patience because Lloyd needs a training wheels season? That our recruiting will not be better immediately and that players won’t jump at the chance to come play for him?

What if I say “fuck patience”? I want to see some results on the recruiting trail right now. The Lloyd era has begun with half our team transferring out and very few viable replacements incoming. That’s not a good start for Robbin’s boy.

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:34 am I was told that the Lloyd hire would wash away the dark cloud hovering over the program keeping us from greatness, and that Lute on his death bed told a reporter without saying a word that Miller’s transgressions had destroyed a once great program. I was told that Lloyd was an incredible recruiter who would give us immediate inroads to recruits who would never have considered playing for a program as moribund as Miller’s.

Now I’m being told I need to have patience because Lloyd needs a training wheels season? That our recruiting will not be better immediately and that players won’t jump at the chance to come play for him?

What if I say “fuck patience”? I want to see some results on the recruiting trail right now. The Lloyd era has begun with half our team transferring out and very few viable replacements incoming. That’s not a good start for Robbin’s boy.

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:34 am I was told that the Lloyd hire would wash away the dark cloud hovering over the program keeping us from greatness, and that Lute on his death bed told a reporter without saying a word that Miller’s transgressions had destroyed a once great program. I was told that Lloyd was an incredible recruiter who would give us immediate inroads to recruits who would never have considered playing for a program as moribund as Miller’s.

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:34 am Now I’m being told I need to have patience because Lloyd needs a training wheels season? That our recruiting will not be better immediately and that players won’t jump at the chance to come play for him?

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:34 amWhat if I say “fuck patience”? I want to see some results on the recruiting trail right now. The Lloyd era has begun with half our team transferring out and very few viable replacements incoming. That’s not a good start for Robbin’s boy.

EastCoastCat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:42 am

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:34 am I was told that the Lloyd hire would wash away the dark cloud hovering over the program keeping us from greatness, and that Lute on his death bed told a reporter without saying a word that Miller’s transgressions had destroyed a once great program. I was told that Lloyd was an incredible recruiter who would give us immediate inroads to recruits who would never have considered playing for a program as moribund as Miller’s.

Now I’m being told I need to have patience because Lloyd needs a training wheels season? That our recruiting will not be better immediately and that players won’t jump at the chance to come play for him?

What if I say “fuck patience”? I want to see some results on the recruiting trail right now. The Lloyd era has begun with half our team transferring out and very few viable replacements incoming. That’s not a good start for Robbin’s boy.

What I don't think is fair - and I'm not going to attempt to dissect your patience barometer btw - is that we mix up the performance of this new Coach with our mutual disdain for our douchebag Pres. & AD.

I'm not going to hate on CTL just because he's "Robbins boy". But that's just me.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:45 am

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:34 am I was told that the Lloyd hire would wash away the dark cloud hovering over the program keeping us from greatness, and that Lute on his death bed told a reporter without saying a word that Miller’s transgressions had destroyed a once great program. I was told that Lloyd was an incredible recruiter who would give us immediate inroads to recruits who would never have considered playing for a program as moribund as Miller’s.

Now I’m being told I need to have patience because Lloyd needs a training wheels season? That our recruiting will not be better immediately and that players won’t jump at the chance to come play for him?

What if I say “fuck patience”? I want to see some results on the recruiting trail right now. The Lloyd era has begun with half our team transferring out and very few viable replacements incoming. That’s not a good start for Robbin’s boy.

So I've repeatedly said the true result will be when the offseason is over and we fully see what our roster looks like.

That said, none of this is positive and the patience talk is beside the point to me. You either get results or you don't. We're not talking wins and losses yet, just recruiting.

It still shocks me people think it doesn't matter we fired a good coach but can't expect immediate results. Miller got Momo, Parrom, Hill, DWill and Kyryl with about the same time. Some of that is an accident of history, but so far Lloyd has taken over 3 recruits, whittled that to 1 and missed on 2 more.

Also, it's tough to claim it will be ok on a guy with no HC track record. What is that really based on? He got the chance because he was supposedly talented enough to offset his lack of experience, but so far, the results don't show it.

Things are always about results.

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:04 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:45 am

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:34 am I was told that the Lloyd hire would wash away the dark cloud hovering over the program keeping us from greatness, and that Lute on his death bed told a reporter without saying a word that Miller’s transgressions had destroyed a once great program. I was told that Lloyd was an incredible recruiter who would give us immediate inroads to recruits who would never have considered playing for a program as moribund as Miller’s.

Now I’m being told I need to have patience because Lloyd needs a training wheels season? That our recruiting will not be better immediately and that players won’t jump at the chance to come play for him?

What if I say “fuck patience”? I want to see some results on the recruiting trail right now. The Lloyd era has begun with half our team transferring out and very few viable replacements incoming. That’s not a good start for Robbin’s boy.

So I've repeatedly said the true result will be when the offseason is over and we fully see what our roster looks like.

That said, none of this is positive and the patience talk is beside the point to me. You either get results or you don't. We're not talking wins and losses yet, just recruiting.

It still shocks me people think it doesn't matter we fired a good coach but can't expect immediate results. Miller got Momo, Parrom, Hill, DWill and Kyryl with about the same time. Some of that is an accident of history, but so far Lloyd has taken over 3 recruits, whittled that to 1 and missed on 2 more.

Also, it's tough to claim it will be ok on a guy with no HC track record. What is that really based on? He got the chance because he was supposedly talented enough to offset his lack of experience, but so far, the results don't show it.

Things are always about results.

Miller then followed up that recruiting class that fell into his lap into a class of Jordin Mayes & Jesse Perry. Lloyd already has that class beat out with Dylan Anderson alone.

He then followed it up with Nick Johnson, Josiah Turner, Sidiki Johnson, and Angelo Chol (batted .250 there).

How patient are you guys willing to be? Not at all?

EastCoastCat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:35 am

Longhorned wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 8:16 pm

YoDeFoe wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 7:26 pm

azgreg wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 7:22 pm

EastCoastCat wrote: Sun May 16, 2021 3:27 pm Whenever I need a “sky is falling” fix this board never disappoints...

No shit. No group goes 60-0 like this group.

Well we just lost out on two starting caliber players in as many weeks and now we're sitting at 10 scholarship players with no identified prospects left on the board.

The sky isn’t falling, it’s this season’s ceiling that just came crashing down.

This. I hear the call for patience, and how we should appreciate a new coach who convinces a number of existing players to stay. But there's a context here. This isn't about what Lloyd can do given the challenges of taking over. It's about an administrator who fired a coach without cause... a coach who was developing a team with exciting potential in spite of said administrator's yanking the postseason, so that said administrator could bring in "his guy." This is the context for impatience. It's not another "sky is falling" moment after a disappointing regular season loss. It's about throwing away what was, and for what? So that we can exercise patience?

And let me know if anybody else here feels this - and don't get me started on football - but the worst part for me is how this outsider comes in, fires our basketball coach in connection with nothing tangible whatsoever, and then he literally tells us to "Bear Down." Is there anybody hear who feels like this is a little much?

My problem with this LH is that this isn't new news. We ALL agree that our administration fucked up and put is in this situation now with CTL. That's fucking water under the bridge. Do we really have to re-live it every day now? It feels like unnecessary whining because none of us has the magic wand to change history.

It is what it is at this point - and that's how I'm trying to look at it.

Yes, it would have been nice for psyche to land TyTy and Kaluma but it's not like we started in a favorable situation given the firing fiasco and a new coach that is trying to right the ship. He also does not have lot of cache to snap his fingers and get big time recruits at the moment but I'm not sure how we can blame him after a month on the job. I'm going to give him 2 months....

RondaeShimmy wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:28 am It's weird that it's the people that usually don't populate the recruiting threads that are melting down the most about this.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:29 am
Depends on how you use patience.

He isn't getting fired before the new season, or legitimately in any danger for a year or two, so he'll get to coach.

I've said before my expectations for year 1 are somewhere around where they were for Miller, i.e., top 20. We'll see how that goes.

In the interim, if you mean patience to say I can't pass judgment on what is happening, I don't have patience. If you mean patience by passing judgment on what is happening but waiting to see results on the floor, etc., I will have patience.

Here's how I judge so far.

Failing to retain Akinjo and probably Brown but retaining the rest, a loss, but not dumpster fire, Kevin Sumlin type L.

Getting Anderson, a win, but one that will come next year.

Getting Ballo, I'm very, very, very lukewarm. Don't see him as much of a contributor.

Not retaining Aiken, small loss.

Not retaining KJ and Dezonie, looking more and more like an L given no actual replacement.

Not getting Tyty or Kaluma, loss.

Getting Pelle, win.

I feel like you expect production, not patience. When I look at the production so far, it dpesn't look great. This feels like I'd said in the beginning, we took a step back and are hoping over time, Looyd will improve us to the level Miller already had us at.

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:01 am

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:34 am I was told that the Lloyd hire would wash away the dark cloud hovering over the program keeping us from greatness, and that Lute on his death bed told a reporter without saying a word that Miller’s transgressions had destroyed a once great program. I was told that Lloyd was an incredible recruiter who would give us immediate inroads to recruits who would never have considered playing for a program as moribund as Miller’s.

Goodman's bullshit not withstanding, but we didn't miss out on two recruits that Lloyd had long time relationships with. Tyty and his dad are absolutely the type to fall in love with the type of bullshit that comes with Calipari and Kentucky, so that is what it is, and Kaluma definitely hurt, but he's not exactly a normal kid in regards to recruitment standards. He had zero attachments to the state of Arizona. It sucks and it's a failure no question, but it is what it is. If we worked on the guy for more than a few weeks and lost him I'd still be rampid, but eh cooler heads prevail. As far as Lloyd giving us immediate inroads to recruits who wouldn't have considered playing for Arizona, he did land Dylan Anderson didn't he? That guy was most definitely not coming to Arizona with Sean Miller in charge.

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:34 am Now I’m being told I need to have patience because Lloyd needs a training wheels season? That our recruiting will not be better immediately and that players won’t jump at the chance to come play for him?

Why wouldn't you have patience? I'm not sure who sold you the bill of goods that our recruiting will be better IMMEDIATELY, but the guy has certain relationships and strengths in place already and losing out on two guys that he nor Gonzaga recruited before he arrived on campus isn't exactly the tell all about what he can do. You were patient with Miller when he got here right? I get not being happy with the decision to can Miller, but why lash out on Lloyd for that? That's not his fault and you know it.

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 7:34 amWhat if I say “fuck patience”? I want to see some results on the recruiting trail right now. The Lloyd era has begun with half our team transferring out and very few viable replacements incoming. That’s not a good start for Robbin’s boy.

Well that's certainly your right. He did beat Kansas for the Swede fwiw. Also who that left will you truly miss outside of Akinjo? Are you really worried about not having Gorener, Jordan Brown, and Daniel Batcho around? Were they ever going to be the difference makers for you? T Brown and Baker left before Miller was even fired so they don't count and literally every single one of these guys transferred to a lesser program (Brown is going to St. Mary's). I'm with you on the rest of your post, but worrying about losing these guys? Really? I'll pass.

Btw if Akinjo returned we were going to lose numerous other quality core pieces. So while him leaving sucks, it was inevitable, and addition by subtraction to that extent.

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:53 am

When you hire a guy who has no head coaching experience with the thought that his recruiting prowess and clean reputation will translate into keeping the program at its current level, I feel like it’s just fine to judge him based on recruiting so far. And so far I’m not impressed.

I’m not judging Lloyd on the job Miller had to do his first couple of years. I’m judging him on the job he needs to do right now. Hence “fuck patience”. On the recruiting trail Miller had to contend with being the fourth head coach in four years. Lloyd obviously has different challenges but I was led to believe that many of those challenges could be overcome by his hiring alone. So yeah, I guess I was sold a bill of goods.

RondaeShimmy wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:57 am They wanted to fire Miller a couple of years ago, but boosters and people got mad because it would destroy a top 5 recruiting class at Arizona plus some high level transfers.

The next year Miller could only get Terry and had to scramble and desperately go to Europe to get international kids really late into the recruiting year.

This year, Miller could only get a 3 sub 100 guys.

There's a reason Miller was going international and sub 100 players (plus transfers). This is the way the wind was blowing.

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:58 am

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:53 am

When you hire a guy who has no head coaching experience with the thought that his recruiting prowess and clean reputation will translate into keeping the program at its current level, I feel like it’s just fine to judge him based on recruiting so far. And so far I’m not impressed.

I’m not judging Lloyd on the job Miller had to do his first couple of years. I’m judging him on the job he needs to do right now. Hence “fuck patience”. On the recruiting trail Miller had to contend with being the fourth head coach in four years. Lloyd obviously has different challenges but I was led to believe that many of those challenges could be overcome by his hiring alone. So yeah, I guess I was sold a bill of goods.

Look you're making up reasons why he was hired. He was by far and away the best candidate Arizona could get, which speaks volumes about the situation. I get it you're upset with the whole way every thing went down, but once again that's not Lloyd's fault. I don't know who led you to believe what you believe, but once again the magic word is CONTEXT.

Also he had Tyty wrapped up until his old school dicked him over. Take that fwiw.

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:20 am
The best candidate to coach Arizona Basketball this year was Sean Miller. I know you disagree with that but that’s the way I feel. My takes begin and end with that premise. Tommy Boy could end up proving me wrong but so far he hasn’t.

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:46 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:29 am
Depends on how you use patience.

He isn't getting fired before the new season, or legitimately in any danger for a year or two, so he'll get to coach.

I've said before my expectations for year 1 are somewhere around where they were for Miller, i.e., top 20. We'll see how that goes.

In the interim, if you mean patience to say I can't pass judgment on what is happening, I don't have patience. If you mean patience by passing judgment on what is happening but waiting to see results on the floor, etc., I will have patience.

Here's how I judge so far.

Failing to retain Akinjo and probably Brown but retaining the rest, a loss, but not dumpster fire, Kevin Sumlin type L.

Getting Anderson, a win, but one that will come next year.

Getting Ballo, I'm very, very, very lukewarm. Don't see him as much of a contributor.

Not retaining Aiken, small loss.

Not retaining KJ and Dezonie, looking more and more like an L given no actual replacement.

Not getting Tyty or Kaluma, loss.

Getting Pelle, win.

I feel like you expect production, not patience. When I look at the production so far, it dpesn't look great. This feels like I'd said in the beginning, we took a step back and are hoping over time, Looyd will improve us to the level Miller already had us at.

Wait what do you mean by top 20? Like a top 20 recruiting class in less than a month of recruiting? Are you serious?

Failing to retain Akinjo needs context considering we would've lost probably 3 core pieces that we currently have if we did retain him. Losing Brown is a bit shitty, but overall it's a meh. I'll give it a half a loss.

Agreed on Anderson and Ballo.

In retrospect we could've used Aiken, but once again meh. We'll get a piece to fill that hole.

Dezonie wouldn't have contributed this year and probably transfers, so what would be the point in keeping him? KJ you can be upset about, but that was all about relationships. You can't fix that that quickly. Kid had his mind made up.

Yup Tyty/Kaluma is a L and Pelle is a W.

We took a step back in regards to what though? If you look at it in the context that if Miller stayed, then so does Akinjo, KJ, Aiken, and Dezonie, but also leads to departures of like I said a few guys (namely Mathurin and Terry). Miller was not going to land Tyty let alone be in his top 2 and Arizona never gets involved with Kaluma as the ties wouldn't have been there to begin with. So how much better would the production really had been? How much of a step forward would there have really been?

CONTEXT MATTERS.

RondaeShimmy wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:57 am They wanted to fire Miller a couple of years ago, but boosters and people got mad because it would destroy a top 5 recruiting class at Arizona plus some high level transfers.

The next year Miller could only get Terry and had to scramble and desperately go to Europe to get international kids really late into the recruiting year.

This year, Miller could only get a 3 sub 100 guys.

There's a reason Miller was going international and sub 100 players (plus transfers). This is the way the wind was blowing.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:42 am
A top 20 team.

Although, I'm fairly sure Nowell, Dezonie, KJ was top 20 (or 25 depending on your rank system) and Lloyd would just have to retain them to score that sort of recruiting class. You've said Lloyd was not interested in KJ or Dezonie, which, ok...but his replacements sort of don't exist at this point. Moreover, he could have fallen into a top 20 class just by retaining what we had.

I've always showed respect for your insider status (hopefully) but before Miller's firing, you'd said the top 7 players should be returning. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I can't remember one time that you (or another insider) posted that Mathurin or Terry would leave due to Akinjo. I know that narrative has emerged since, but before the firing, it wasn't really there.

I don't mean this as a callout, more that I'm trying to be good about not pulling stuff our of my butt.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6546&start=250

On your 4/1 post, you say it's likely Mathurin and Akinjo are both back. It took me like 20 min to wade through stuff to get there, so hopefully that'a proof enough.

We took a step back in that we were widely (and IMO, rightly) predicted as a top 20 team. I have a hard time seeing that now. The present and future talent levels aren't what they were before the firing.

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:20 am
The best candidate to coach Arizona Basketball this year was Sean Miller. I know you disagree with that but that’s the way I feel. My takes begin and end with that premise. Tommy Boy could end up proving me wrong but so far he hasn’t.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:47 am

RondaeShimmy wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:57 am They wanted to fire Miller a couple of years ago, but boosters and people got mad because it would destroy a top 5 recruiting class at Arizona plus some high level transfers.

The next year Miller could only get Terry and had to scramble and desperately go to Europe to get international kids really late into the recruiting year.

This year, Miller could only get a 3 sub 100 guys.

There's a reason Miller was going international and sub 100 players (plus transfers). This is the way the wind was blowing.

Ehhh, so first off, I think you're avoiding that the failure to support Miller was at least a partial driver in difficulty recruiting.

The international class you decry...Mathurin was not a late add, and he's the jewel of that class. You can also easily see this as Miller overcoming a lack of support to land a #6 national class.

Calling BS on the 2021 class. #80, 85 and 95.

https://247sports.com/Season/2021-Baske ... tRankings/

I do agree there's a reason Miller was doing what he was doing. It's hard to recruit like usual when the university president is hankering to fire you.

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:54 am Arizona has replaced everybody so far outside of James Akinjo (I expect this to change pretty soon), Jordan Brown, and Tibet Gorener.

Olsondogg wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:16 am

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:54 am Arizona has replaced everybody so far outside of James Akinjo (I expect this to change pretty soon), Jordan Brown, and Tibet Gorener.

This is how I see it too, although Akinjo is a huge loss IMO and you aren’t getting someone equivalent.

I also think more of Jordan Brown than most do.

But honestly, getting Mathurin back is the biggest of all. That kid is very special and should have an amazing year regardless of whom is on the sideline.

gronk4heisman wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:22 am Could the Terry connection not allowed us to make some inroads with Hickman or did he basically decommit to go to Gonzaga?

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:25 am

gronk4heisman wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:22 am Could the Terry connection not allowed us to make some inroads with Hickman or did he basically decommit to go to Gonzaga?

Yes.

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:58 am Also he had Tyty wrapped up until his old school dicked him over. Take that fwiw.

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:24 am

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:20 am
The best candidate to coach Arizona Basketball this year was Sean Miller. I know you disagree with that but that’s the way I feel. My takes begin and end with that premise. Tommy Boy could end up proving me wrong but so far he hasn’t.

Maybe let him coach a game first?

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:24 amI don't disagree with you either persay, but there had to be a plan, and it had to be extend Sean Miller or fire him. Extending him leads to quite a bit of long term questions though. So I get why the plan was to fire Miller. Fwiw I think our core roster this year is better now than it would've been with Sean Miller.

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:30 am

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:24 am

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:20 am
The best candidate to coach Arizona Basketball this year was Sean Miller. I know you disagree with that but that’s the way I feel. My takes begin and end with that premise. Tommy Boy could end up proving me wrong but so far he hasn’t.

Maybe let him coach a game first?

I’ve never referenced his coaching. In fact, I’ve said I am only grading him based on recruiting. But he has never led a program or been the head coach on the floor. I understand that our illustrious and infallible school President trusts him to be elite in those areas but you’ll have to excuse me if I’m not yet convinced.

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:24 amI don't disagree with you either persay, but there had to be a plan, and it had to be extend Sean Miller or fire him. Extending him leads to quite a bit of long term questions though. So I get why the plan was to fire Miller. Fwiw I think our core roster this year is better now than it would've been with Sean Miller.

Really? Well, you’re the expert. I don’t see it.

RondaeShimmy wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:28 am It's weird that it's the people that usually don't populate the recruiting threads that are melting down the most about this.

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:32 am

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:30 am

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:24 am

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:20 am
The best candidate to coach Arizona Basketball this year was Sean Miller. I know you disagree with that but that’s the way I feel. My takes begin and end with that premise. Tommy Boy could end up proving me wrong but so far he hasn’t.

Maybe let him coach a game first?

I’ve never referenced his coaching. In fact, I’ve said I am only grading him based on recruiting. But he has never led a program or been the head coach on the floor. I understand that our illustrious and infallible school President trusts him to be elite in those areas but you’ll have to excuse me if I’m not yet convinced.

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:24 amI don't disagree with you either persay, but there had to be a plan, and it had to be extend Sean Miller or fire him. Extending him leads to quite a bit of long term questions though. So I get why the plan was to fire Miller. Fwiw I think our core roster this year is better now than it would've been with Sean Miller.

Really? Well, you’re the expert. I don’t see it.

I bolded it for you. That says coaching and not recruiting.

Look I get it, you're pissy because fuck Bobby Robbins (a reasonable take). I'll leave you be. Have a great day.

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:35 am

RondaeShimmy wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 8:28 am It's weird that it's the people that usually don't populate the recruiting threads that are melting down the most about this.

No one is melting down, but would you prefer this board was dead?

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:49 am

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:42 am
A top 20 team.

Although, I'm fairly sure Nowell, Dezonie, KJ was top 20 (or 25 depending on your rank system) and Lloyd would just have to retain them to score that sort of recruiting class. You've said Lloyd was not interested in KJ or Dezonie, which, ok...but his replacements sort of don't exist at this point. Moreover, he could have fallen into a top 20 class just by retaining what we had.

I've always showed respect for your insider status (hopefully) but before Miller's firing, you'd said the top 7 players should be returning. If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I can't remember one time that you (or another insider) posted that Mathurin or Terry would leave due to Akinjo. I know that narrative has emerged since, but before the firing, it wasn't really there.

I don't mean this as a callout, more that I'm trying to be good about not pulling stuff our of my butt.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=6546&start=250

On your 4/1 post, you say it's likely Mathurin and Akinjo are both back. It took me like 20 min to wade through stuff to get there, so hopefully that'a proof enough.

We took a step back in that we were widely (and IMO, rightly) predicted as a top 20 team. I have a hard time seeing that now. The present and future talent levels aren't what they were before the firing.

I think Lloyd was interested in KJ, but dude already had his mind made up. KJ's replacement is Larsson. Dezonie's replacement is Bal.

Mathurin was very likely NBA bound in the end. He didn't want to transfer and he didn't think his stock would get much higher with Miller's system and Akinjo. Terry didn't like the way he was being used with a ball dominant guard as the guy's strength is literally his creativity, so he needs the ball in his hands more. I always knew NBA was in the view for Mathurin even when he expressed he was probably going to come back, but you're right that I didn't know about Dalen until after the fact. I'm not holding anything against you brother.

We don't have Akinjo. That's literally the one difference between the team you were expecting and this team, while not knowing we were likely losing both our top wings. So Kerr and the improvement of our wings is definitely the key components of whether we're a top 20 team or not.

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:37 am

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:32 am

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:30 am

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:24 am

Chicat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:20 am
The best candidate to coach Arizona Basketball this year was Sean Miller. I know you disagree with that but that’s the way I feel. My takes begin and end with that premise. Tommy Boy could end up proving me wrong but so far he hasn’t.

Maybe let him coach a game first?

I’ve never referenced his coaching. In fact, I’ve said I am only grading him based on recruiting. But he has never led a program or been the head coach on the floor. I understand that our illustrious and infallible school President trusts him to be elite in those areas but you’ll have to excuse me if I’m not yet convinced.

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 9:24 amI don't disagree with you either persay, but there had to be a plan, and it had to be extend Sean Miller or fire him. Extending him leads to quite a bit of long term questions though. So I get why the plan was to fire Miller. Fwiw I think our core roster this year is better now than it would've been with Sean Miller.

Really? Well, you’re the expert. I don’t see it.

I bolded it for you. That says coaching and not recruiting.

Look I get it, you're pissy because fuck Bobby Robbins (a reasonable take). I'll leave you be. Have a great day.

I should have said “run” Arizona Basketball because there is a whole lot more to running your own program than coaching during games. But you knew that.

No reason to “leave me be” except of course if you don’t like talking to people who aren’t impressed with what Tommy Boy has done so far. In which case, I get it.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:53 am
No disrespect in bringing up the pre-firing narrative. I just see it as evidence that it probably wasn't as set in stone as it's been made out to be post-firing. This, at a bare minimum, was not a situation where it was a dead clear "him or me" from the get go.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:53 am
It's come up, but I would add that Brown's loss matters in light of his replacement being Ballo, and Ballo being a downgrade. This sticks out a little more for me in light of the fact I'm not sure Koloko is ready to be a 30 mpg type guy and losing Aiken limited us to 3 bigs right now. When one of those three is a downgrade from Brown, it matters.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:53 am
The what would have happened is always tricky because it did not happen. Maybe the top 7 would have returned, maybe not. I hold some hope we could have pried Adam Miller from LSU, which would have cancelled Terry out, but...well, this is all speculation.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:53 am I'm not particularly optimistic about our ability to continue to be top 20, but I could be wrong. Kerr is good, but we are so razor thin depth at PG. I think Mathurin and Tubelis are very strong, but am not convinced Terry's ready for prime time.

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:53 am Also, we went from a team with great firepower to being very dependent on Mathurin/Tubelis and Pelle. It's one reason I wouldn't start Pelle. If he's not a 6th man, we have almost no bench scoring.

Longhorned wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:36 am So, does anybody disagree that Lloyd inherited the program at the strongest point that any new Arizona coach in history inherited? That may be a fact, too. Or is considering that a meltdown?

97cats wrote: Mon May 17, 2021 10:57 am everything wanted to be different and it is - hate it or love it it all will be different, top to bottom, including style of play

better will only be known in time