Bear Down Wildcats

EastCoastCat wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 12:40 pm You nailed it Spiff...the transition was virtually seamless and drama free.

Both Miller and Lloyd deserve props for allowing Arizona basketball to be bigger than them.

Comparing Miller and Lloyd to Robbins and Heeke, you see what real leaders look like.

From my own playing days, loyalty is huge deal in college coaching. If Miller told Murphy he was disloyal to go with Lloyd, it would have severely altered Murphy's career. It certainly seems like Miller let him go without any static. Same with the players, there were never rumblings Miller put pressure on them to leave.

Lloyd was good about welcoming Miller's guys. He retained Murphy and Rounds because they were good choices. The players were an easy choice (you're not turning Mathurin down) but he never did anything like punish Kerr for putting his name in the portal.

Compare that to petty BS like Robbins and Heeke pulling a tourney ban to keep Miller from saving his job or stringing out the firing for a month and lying about Miller's status. Miller and Lloyd put the people around them first and the program benefitted. Robbins and Heeke pulled an incestuous power trip.

I'd lay heavy money that's because Miller and Lloyd actually know what it means to lead a successful program. The buzz was always that people inside the program liked Miller much more than Robbins and the press. The internal part of the program seems strong under Lloyd too. Those guys get it in a way Robbins and Heeke don't.

I also think that Tommy comes from a program/philosophy that doesn't necessarily go after the 1-and-done'rs. Seems like his background is finding highly skilled & talented players that will grow within the program which to me means maybe our overall class ranking won't be as high as we are normally used to.

It will be fascinating to understand his approach to recruiting at Arizona. It might look a little different than recent years is my point.

Will keep this board highly engaged...that I know.

Sweet digs

Being the Arizona Basketball head coach has its perks.

That doesn't suck.

I wonder if Kingsbury had any input.

Lute's house was nicer with the edge of horizon pool.




Not to compare digs or anything, but Lute had a really sweet house.

Although Tommy can probably not burn the meat. LUTE GET OFF YOUR PHONE!

Right next to the La Paloma entrance

Alieberman wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 2:57 pm Tommy is in a much better position to get AZ to final 4 than Miller… and that position is being employed by the UofA

Logic thy name is Alieberman.

UAEebs86 wrote: Wed Nov 24, 2021 5:08 pm That doesn't suck.

no it doesn’t

Lloyd inherited excellent pieces from Miller but deserves credit for keeping those pieces, convincing the players to stay. because of that coming into the season he had opportunity to lay a foundation of success right out the gate, that’s becoming a huge advantage - Arizona was the blueprint for Gonzaga 25 years ago before Gonzaga became what Gonzaga is today.

Lloyd understands if the product on the floor is positive and attractive from the get go that the tradition and infrastructure that is Arizona Basketball will again recruit itself in some manor and become a weapon for his growth as a recruiter in his own right.

i don’t think anyone outside Lloyd was expecting Arizona to come out to such a raucous start, but they have, and they possess long athletic players at every level giving them a chance to make a serious run.

if Lloyd can pull off a top 10 year in his first year in Tucson he knows he will be ahead of schedule in establishing at Arizona what he believes can be an even higher ceiling than what Few has obtained at Gonzaga.

This was the main reason Lloyd took the Arizona job, because he thought Arizona was the only place that could surpass what had been accomplished during his time in Spokane.

for him to realistically do that he knew and knows recruiting was the key, having a top flight year the first season is critical for a career assistant and he’s capitalizing, if it maintains Lloyd will have the perfect beginning he envisioned as the head coach at Arizona with a little help from Sean Miller.

Happy Thxgiving!!

Epic Thanksgiving post ‘97!!!

Cool thoughts 97!

Happy Thanks all. Enjoy.

I see a fair amount of shade being thrown their way but don't Heeke and Robbins get any credit for bringing in Lloyd?

I am extremely glad to see he can coach, but he also has a background in recruiting for the Zags so he may be the ultimate coach we needed.

UAtrue wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:24 pm I see a fair amount of shade being thrown their way but don't Heeke and Robbins get any credit for bringing in Lloyd?

I am extremely glad to see he can coach, but he also has a background in recruiting for the Zags so he may be the ultimate coach we needed.

Lloyd had been regarded as the "coach in waiting" at Gonzaga for many years, and that's a position he worked hard for. The Arizona job was probably not one he ever gave much thought to, but he's now made it clear it's the only one that could've drawn him away from Spokane. Within the college coaching community, Lloyd has long been regarded as a guy who'd thrive as a HC when he got the chance. We may be seeing our first glimpse of that.

I'm glad that Few is still in his 50s because it probably means he'll coach Gonzaga for many more years. Could be hard for Lloyd to turn down that job if it's ever offered to him.

Beachcat97 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:13 pm Could be hard for Lloyd to turn down that job if it's ever offered to him.

Lloyd doesn't look like a fly fisherman. Although I imagine Few took him out a few times.

After spending a winter in Tucson compared to years in Spokane, it will be tough going back.

Aren't the Millers still in Tucson? Believe they both said that the one thing they don't miss about back east was the snow.

Beachcat97 wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:13 pm

UAtrue wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:24 pm I see a fair amount of shade being thrown their way but don't Heeke and Robbins get any credit for bringing in Lloyd?

I am extremely glad to see he can coach, but he also has a background in recruiting for the Zags so he may be the ultimate coach we needed.

Lloyd had been regarded as the "coach in waiting" at Gonzaga for many years, and that's a position he worked hard for. The Arizona job was probably not one he ever gave much thought to, but he's now made it clear it's the only one that could've drawn him away from Spokane. Within the college coaching community, Lloyd has long been regarded as a guy who'd thrive as a HC when he got the chance. We may be seeing our first glimpse of that.

I'm glad that Few is still in his 50s because it probably means he'll coach Gonzaga for many more years. Could be hard for Lloyd to turn down that job if it's ever offered to him.

Once you got to Arizona. Would you turn that job down for Gonzaga? If you are struggling at Arizona you will definitely struggle at Gonzaga. If Lloyd keeps coaching as he is now for the Cats I strongly believe we will have him for decades.

We have plenty time to judge his performance over the next two years. Let's not judge him till we have a sample size that is good enough to really see.

TheCat wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:56 pm We have plenty time to judge his performance over the next two years. Let's not judge him till we have a sample size that is good enough to really see.

UAtrue wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:24 pm I see a fair amount of shade being thrown their way but don't Heeke and Robbins get any credit for bringing in Lloyd?

Fuck no.

So far, it’s a great hire. It could change in December, but I doubt it.

I see Tommyball being attractive as fuck for top level recruits. This years success can lead to great recruiting down the line. Who wouldn’t want want to play in this system?

wyo-cat wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:54 pm So far, it’s a great hire. It could change in December, but I doubt it.

I see Tommyball being attractive as fuck for top level recruits. This years success can lead to great recruiting down the line. Who wouldn’t want want to play in this system?

If you can prove that it is a winning system I wholeheartedly agree.

It's Gonzaga (via Lute), so that's proof it's a winning system. If you add elite athleticism beyond what Gonzaga has shown so far these past years, it's a system that you should lather into your shaved legs and luxuriate yourself over.

When I think of the elegance of Lute's system filtered through the white supremacism of eastern Washington the urge to shave my legs is irresistible. Throw in the Jesuit angle and I'm down for a full spa treatment.

Arizona Basketball Press Conference - Tommy Lloyd & Pelle Larsson
2,158 views
Nov 24, 2021

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nWj2T1SZSlg

UAtrue wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:24 pm I see a fair amount of shade being thrown their way but don't Heeke and Robbins get any credit for bringing in Lloyd?

I am extremely glad to see he can coach, but he also has a background in recruiting for the Zags so he may be the ultimate coach we needed.

Notable Robbins/Heeke hires.

Kevin Sumlin. Jedd Fisch. Tommy Lloyd.

One abject disaster that lost millions, and decimated a roster and fanbase. One guy who currently has one win to a team that was misisng just about everyone to Covid. And Lloyd.

I don't mean this as a shot at Lloyd, but Arizona is a top ten job nationally. Good to great coaching should sort of be the expectation.

It's also very difficult to avoid the horrible handling of Miller's exit for me. I feel like the compliment to them would be that they razed football to the ground, horribly botched the firing of a basketball coach and then hired a basketball coach who has handled the current roster in the manner you'd hope for a program of our stature. It's not a shot at Lloyd, but I'll be cold in the ground before I give Robbins and Heeke credit for their handling to date.

Spaceman don't forget a woman's soccer coach that won, I believe, a single conference game. Not her player's or system yet so will reserve judgement.

She won one CAT. They beat ASSU 2-1 the last game. That said, their attack was incredibly weak and they were a tourney team last year

And she is a dookie

Chicat wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 3:41 pm

UAtrue wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 1:24 pm I see a fair amount of shade being thrown their way but don't Heeke and Robbins get any credit for bringing in Lloyd?

Fuck no.

I feel this, but the answer is yes...they do. If, in fact, they (or Robbins) decided to burn Miller because Lloyd was available, and took the chance of firing a motivated and proven coach for no real reason because their guy was available, and said guy turns out to be amazing...they get full credit for taking that risk in reaching for that reward.

It is still shady, but if they did what they did to Miller because Lloyd and only Lloyd, and he turns out great, it was a great move that can only be proven so with massive success.

As for Fisch (Spiff's post)...what he did to keep this program from dropping to intramural, and to re-engage former players, and somehow to pull a fantastic recruiting class...was near miraculous. The results on the field were what they were, but context is important. The coaching mistakes will get fixed as he gains experience, but dude turned Plummer into a serviceable QB from somewhere way below that, and stayed competitive in games despite having to move a C to LT at times and starting freshmen on an OL decimated by injuries that simply did not have the depth from the prior guy to handle a single missed start. He got us in on Arizona Ave (Chandler and Hamilton) and SagU, which have been Devil or out of town feeders. It may not work, but I have nothing but love for what Fisch has started here.

That’s a shitload of assumptions and conjecture for one post. I’m actually very impressed.

HiCat wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:27 am Don't know if this is up already. (delete if so)


13. Arizona (NR): The Wildcats were as impressive as any team in the past week with a dominating tournament win in Las Vegas, capped off by a dismantling of Michigan.

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-me ... t-power-36

17. Arizona
https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... fz;rn;fp;1;;

AP Top 25 College Basketball Poll
11 Arizona (6-0) 17 851
https://apnews.com/hub/ap-top-25-colleg ... tball-poll

https://www.cbssports.com/college-baske ... challenge/

Chicat wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:54 am That’s a shitload of assumptions and conjecture for one post. I’m actually very impressed.

perhaps i should simplfy

if Lloyd has success greater than Miller, the Pres and AD deserve credit.

The end.

EVCat wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:28 am

Chicat wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:54 am That’s a shitload of assumptions and conjecture for one post. I’m actually very impressed.

perhaps i should simplfy

if Lloyd has success greater than Miller, the Pres and AD deserve credit.

The end.

No one gave Livengood credit for lucking into Sean Miller (while also nearly botching the hire), and for good reason.

And no one should give Robbins or Heeke credit for anything other than almost completely destroying Arizona Athletics in service to Robbins’ ego and Heeke’s submissiveness.

Not saying people won’t, but they absolutely shouldn’t. Those two have done more damage to our university’s athletic reputation than anyone else could have even if that was what they were going for.

Fuck Heeke & Robbins.

big difference is that Robbins appears to have cut Miller specifically to pull Lloyd.

And Livengood didn't luck into Miller. Livengood built a relationship with Calipari that only came up short because UK opened up, and Cal thought enough of Livengood to intervene and give Miller the push, knowing he wanted to take it but was conflicted about leaving Xavier.

Miller’s conflict was leaving a competent athletic department for one led by a total moron.

You may want to believe that Robbins had some master plan to upgrade the coaching but you’re assuming things not in evidence. Like that Robbins has an intelligent plan for … anything.

But if you’d like to erect a statue to Bobbins on campus I won’t stop you. I’ll just make it a point to piss on it every time I’m back in the Old Pueblo. Enjoy your piss target.

The fact that we're even talking about the president of a public university in connection with a basketball coaching hire signals the basic problem here.

Merkin wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:17 pmAren't the Millers still in Tucson?

Yes and Lloyd lives across the fairway from Miller. They are nearly neighbors

EVCat wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:46 am I feel this, but the answer is yes...they do. If, in fact, they (or Robbins) decided to burn Miller because Lloyd was available, and took the chance of firing a motivated and proven coach for no real reason because their guy was available, and said guy turns out to be amazing...they get full credit for taking that risk in reaching for that reward.

It is still shady, but if they did what they did to Miller because Lloyd and only Lloyd, and he turns out great, it was a great move that can only be proven so with massive success.

My comeback would be fairly simple. I see no reason why Lloyd wouldn't have been just as available after the 2019-20 season or the 2021-22 season.

It strains credulity to act like a 20 year assistant at Gonzaga was a one year only chance. We weren't exactly in a massive bidding war and if what Lloyd has said about Arizona is true, he would have come if Miller got one additional year and we were hiring next year.

The bottom line is Robbins and Heeke engineered Miller's departure, in part by the tourney ban to kill SM's chance of building support for himself and the program with a tourney run. First, just chew on that. They actively discouraged interest and a potentially compelling tourney run.

Second, and I don't mean this a shot at Lloyd, Arizona is a top ten national job. If Lloyd is a top ten national coach, it isn't a great pull by Robbins and Heeke, it's a hire commensurate with the position. Again, no shot at Lloyd, being a top ten national guy would be a huge compliment to him. But in terms of Robbins and Heeke, it's what would be expected.

I feel like that's where we are with Robbins and Heeke meddling. When they pull a screwjob and the replacement might actually be the quality we should pull, we act like it's a coup for them because things above abject failure seem good for that duo.

Great post Spaceman. Lot of points there I wasn’t smart enough to think of.

My only additional thought is that Robbins/Heeke didn’t just screw over Miller with the postseason ban, but also screwed over the players and fans.

Their goal was obviously to keep Miller from succeeding to the point they’d be forced to extend him, but they also cheated us out of seeing the team excel in the PAC-12 tourney and the Big Dance, and they truly fucked over the players who came to Arizona to play for Sean Miller on a national stage. These are young men who in many cases are going to make a future living based on how they performed in front of the country (and the world).

So go ahead and credit them for hiring Lloyd. But don’t for a second forget the many people they fucked up and fucked over in the process.

Chicat wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:35 pm So go ahead and credit them for hiring Lloyd. But don’t for a second forget the many people they fucked up and fucked over in the process.

I'm definitely not feeling any need to credit these guys. I'm actually curious, though, how Lloyd even got onto their radars. As others have pointed out, Lloyd wasn't a name we'd hear getting consideration for other big jobs to come up in the last few years. Is it because it was generally thought he wouldn't leave Gonzaga? Or is it because he wasn't regarded as a guy with strong HC potential? Maybe both? At any rate, Lloyd's name emerged pretty quickly in our search, which makes me think Robbins and/or Heeke had an eye on him. I'm not even sure the other guys considered (Terry, Simon...who else? Pope?) ever moved ahead of Lloyd in our search. He seemed to be the top target all throughout.

Nevertheless, yeah, even as this season has started out very well and everyone's excited again, I won't forget the people impacted by Heeke and Robbins' incompetence.

Chicat wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 2:35 pm Great post Spaceman. Lot of points there I wasn’t smart enough to think of.

My only additional thought is that Robbins/Heeke didn’t just screw over Miller with the postseason ban, but also screwed over the players and fans.

Their goal was obviously to keep Miller from succeeding to the point they’d be forced to extend him, but they also cheated us out of seeing the team excel in the PAC-12 tourney and the Big Dance, and they truly fucked over the players who came to Arizona to play for Sean Miller on a national stage. These are young men who in many cases are going to make a future living based on how they performed in front of the country (and the world).

So go ahead and credit them for hiring Lloyd. But don’t for a second forget the many people they fucked up and fucked over in the process.

100% accurate. It was a cold decision to try to get Miller out at the expense of players, fans and the program.

Don't forget this gem after the season ended:

As speculation heats up about Sean Miller’s future with the Arizona Wildcats, president Robert C. Robbins told reporters Monday at his weekly press briefing that “Coach Miller is our coach.”

I mean, they straight up lied publicly to the fanbase and team unless we're using Bill Clinton's definition of the word is.

Remember when it looked like we might not even get Lloyd because "The UofA President got involved"?

No credit to Ricky Bobby.

Jefe wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:19 pm

Merkin wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:17 pmAren't the Millers still in Tucson?

Yes and Lloyd lives across the fairway from Miller. They are nearly neighbors

IIRC Sean lives off of Hill 8, a par three there’s a ridge going south that’s loaded with sweet houses. I’ve not been to Tommy’s house but I know someone who has. He’s south of La Paloma off of Campbell.

UAEebs86 wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 4:55 pm Remember when it looked like we might not even get Lloyd because "The UofA President got involved"?

No credit to Ricky Bobby.

Yeah. It was a harrowing week or two. Here's hoping Lloyd is so successful that we don't have go through another coaching change for at least a couple decades.

EVCat wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:28 am

Chicat wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:54 am That’s a shitload of assumptions and conjecture for one post. I’m actually very impressed.

perhaps i should simplfy

if Lloyd has success greater than Miller, the Pres and AD deserve credit.

The end.

I agree but it needs to be judged fairly with his own players. We were a top 15 team before the change and then completely discounted. Where would Az. be if Kerr and ZU had left because of the change? Remember that when the change occurred they both indicated Miller was the best coach they ever had. I hope with my whole heart Tommy is super successful. If two transfers would have occurred we would be Minnesota. Give Tommy credit for keeping them but these are Miller's players that he went throughout the world to find and bring in here when no one gave us a second look because of the NCAA / ESPN bullshit. The brand of basketball we are now playing is attractive to both fans and recruits. Hopefully CTL can capitalize on that.

wyo-cat wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:17 pm

Jefe wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 12:19 pm

Merkin wrote: Thu Nov 25, 2021 2:17 pmAren't the Millers still in Tucson?

Yes and Lloyd lives across the fairway from Miller. They are nearly neighbors

IIRC Sean lives off of Hill 8, a par three there’s a ridge going south that’s loaded with sweet houses. I’ve not been to Tommy’s house but I know someone who has. He’s south of La Paloma off of Campbell.

Tommy's address per the Pima County tax assessors office. Which is public information in AZ, but impossible to get in CA.




It is pretty sweet. https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/6061 ... 1891_zpid/

although there must be a lot of drunks who try to walk through doors.

EVCat wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:28 am

Chicat wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:54 am That’s a shitload of assumptions and conjecture for one post. I’m actually very impressed.

perhaps i should simplfy

if Lloyd has success greater than Miller, the Pres and AD deserve credit.

The end.

Is this stolen from Hansen? They intentionally torpedoed Sean and are putting full support behind Tommy. It would take an absolute catastrophe for Tommy to not have more success here than Sean.

Tommy is on N. Val Vista. Which is outside of Paloma. I was told to get to their house one must turn on Camino Juan Paisano then left on Val Vista. Which is true.

Sean’s house is one of the two at the end of the cul de sac between 7 and 8 Hill.

prh wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:28 pm

EVCat wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:28 am

Chicat wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:54 am That’s a shitload of assumptions and conjecture for one post. I’m actually very impressed.

perhaps i should simplfy

if Lloyd has success greater than Miller, the Pres and AD deserve credit.

The end.

Is this stolen from Hansen? They intentionally torpedoed Sean and are putting full support behind Tommy. It would take an absolute catastrophe for Tommy to not have more success here than Sean.

Solid point I regret not making. It does help not having administration actively working against you.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.spokes ... ontent=amp

Article from the Spokane paper on CTL