Bear Down Wildcats

Spaceman Spiff wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 8:55 am

prh wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 8:28 pm

EVCat wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 11:28 am

Chicat wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 10:54 am That’s a shitload of assumptions and conjecture for one post. I’m actually very impressed.

perhaps i should simplfy

if Lloyd has success greater than Miller, the Pres and AD deserve credit.

The end.

Is this stolen from Hansen? They intentionally torpedoed Sean and are putting full support behind Tommy. It would take an absolute catastrophe for Tommy to not have more success here than Sean.

Solid point I regret not making. It does help not having administration actively working against you.

And that is a fair contextual point...would be more fair to say if he has more success than Miller's first few years.

This has put me in a weird position of feeling like a Robbins/Heeke stan, which I am not. I just am also not a fan of scorched earth groupthink. There are degrees to things. And it is fair to note that Miller's end years performance is impacted directly by Robbins and Heeke's fuckery

RondaeShimmy wrote: Thu Dec 09, 2021 10:02 am

love

I don't think this has to be a constant comparison between Tommy and Sean. I think long term determines the success of any coach. I know Sean was the 3 fastest to 400 wins behind Lute, Heckman and ahead of Wooden. That was long term success measured against Hall of Fame coaches. Tommy is off to a great start and I am appreciative of that without discounting Sean's accomplishments.

What pisses me off is I was watching Texas against Seton Hall and the announcers ask what team has been a surprise? No one mentions Arizona and then it came up on the graphic and they said oh yeah Arizona. Then they wanted to recognize first year coaches that were doing better than expected. They then show a graphic with 5 coaches all with at least 1 loss and Davis (UNC) 2 losses. NO Tommy ...no mention. I honestly feel they purposely downplay the PAC especially when Fox is showing back to back PAC games with UCLA and Arizona. I really feel they are idiots or just not recognizing the PAC because they have no contract to show our games.

Arizona isn’t a surprise for anyone paying attention

Heeke/Robbins had made five hires this past year. Football, men's basketball, baseball, women's soccer, and softball. Two coaches have completed their seasons, and each notched 1 conference win. Not exactly a good start. Lloyd has been great so far, but the season is only 1/3 over. Baseball and softball should be fine, but both coaches inherit World Series teams. Still way too early to grade any of the hires, but we'll see how many of these hires last 5 years in Tucson.

As for Lloyd, the big difference this year is style of D. Nothing against the pack-line, and Sean Miller won a lot of games using it. Virginia won a National Championship utilizing the D as well. But the issue with the pack-line is it doesn't create a lot of live ball turnovers. And when you have athletes like Mathurin, Terry, Keriisa, and Kier on the outside, and rim protectors like Koloko and Ballo, you want to play press D and speed up the other team. Especially the way this team runs out on breaks.

Miller tried to play fast, and KenPom adjusted, for the most part, we did. But the pack-line D is not intended to speed the other team up, nor create live ball turnovers like a press D does. And that's the biggest difference year over year in my opinion. Instead of packing the D in, we're playing passing lanes and aren't worrying about getting beat off the dribble, because the guards know we have an eraser at the rim. The result is the points per possession isn't that much different, but we're getting more possessions because we're causing more turnovers and speeding our opponents up, causing them to make mistakes or rush shots.

Olsondogg wrote: Fri Dec 10, 2021 8:32 am Arizona isn’t a surprise for anyone paying attention

I expected the Cats to shine brighter this year, but not to dim the rest of the firmament!!!

I don't know what Tommy is doing to make us so good, but I am so thankful he's ours. No wonder Gonzaga was so high on him.

AZCatGirl wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 5:27 pm I don't know what Tommy is doing to make us so good, but I am so thankful he's ours. No wonder Gonzaga was so high on him.

Good point. It isn't surprising he allegedly already had a deal in place to be the next head coach there -- Gonzaga and Few clearly knew what they had. And after seeing the AZ offense on full display thus far, it reaffirms the notion that he oversaw Few's offense at Gonzaga.

Tommy Fucking Boy Lloyd. I don’t care what you call him. All I know is he just went into a hostile environment with everyone chomping on the bit to knock them off and emerged with a win.

That’s Arizona worthy…

Illinois made 16 three pointers and had a 19-0 run and lost at home - this win today was something else.

97cats wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 5:44 pm Illinois made 16 three pointers and had a 19-0 run and lost at home - this win today was something else.

And a very homer friendly refereeing crew.

Also outside of Tubelis and Mathurin, and a 2nd half Kriisa, everyone else just had marginal games.

He'd be a great coach if he could get Ballo to pass the ball and repost.

TheCat wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:45 pm He'd be a great coach if he could get Ballo to pass the ball and repost.

If our backup center needing to improve is our biggest problem I’ll take it.

Merkin wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 6:14 pm

97cats wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 5:44 pm Illinois made 16 three pointers and had a 19-0 run and lost at home - this win today was something else.

And a very homer friendly refereeing crew.

Also outside of Tubelis and Mathurin, and a 2nd half Kriisa, everyone else just had marginal games.

I was getting nervous during the review of the play where Kriisa threw the ball off an Illini because Desk Dude was jacking his jaw at the refs as they hunkered over the monitor. I just knew the initial call was gonna be reversed.

And that 5 second call (which was really about 6.5 seconds) only happened because a check to the ref bounced.

dovecanyoncat wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:22 pm I was getting nervous during the review of the play where Kriisa threw the ball off an Illini because Desk Dude was jacking his jaw at the refs as they hunkered over the monitor. I just knew the initial call was gonna be reversed.

And that 5 second call (which was really about 6.5 seconds) only happened because a check to the ref bounced.

The 5 second call came because it was actually 7.5 seconds.

IrishAzCat wrote: Sat Dec 11, 2021 8:13 pm

Tommy Lloyd says Arizona 'did just enough' to beat Illinois
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMr5SHt-4t8

Watching Brad Underwood scream, cry, threaten, and verbally abuse the refs for two hours even when their players were getting away with throwing elbows on tie ups and kneeing our players in the back on loose balls on the floor made me thankful for Tommy Boy’s calm demeanor.

The way he calmly asked for explanations and then pled his case to the refs without going on forever or trying to keep the argument going long after the ball was put back into play (another Underwood tactic that I’m surprised didn’t earn him a tech) was good to see. I thought that rubbed off on the team. Illinois played tight and angry while Arizona was calm and confident. Could have been the difference between winning and losing.

Chi- I’m starting to put together a list of charities for a certain bet….

Alieberman wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 7:02 am Chi- I’m starting to put together a list of charities for a certain bet….

You’re the man Ari! And so is Tommy Lloyd so far.

After listening to Underwoods presser I got the impression he’s a hot head. And I do remember seeing him during the game going ballistic.

Sort of a basketball version of Mike Stoops.

Chicat wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 7:13 am

Alieberman wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 7:02 am Chi- I’m starting to put together a list of charities for a certain bet….

You’re the man Ari! And so is Tommy Lloyd so far.

Come here you son of a bitch.

So when Illinois went on it’s 19-0 run, LLoyd used only 1 TO. He also had the under 8 minute TV TO but when I watched that unfold I thought of Miller and how many TO’s He would have used

The biggest stretch of the game. When we were down 13 I said to myself “well, let’s now really see what this team is made of.”

Cutting the lead to 4 by halftime was so huge and told me everything I wanted to know. This team has big time huevos…

azcat49 wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:19 am So when Illinois went on it’s 19-0 run, LLoyd used only 1 TO. He also had the under 8 minute TV TO but when I watched that unfold I thought of Miller and how many TO’s He would have used

I had the same thought rewatching the game last night. We would have been out of TOs by halftime. Instead it was Illinois who had to be careful with their timeouts. They took their second to last with like 13 minutes left in the second half. And with our press and traps there was a real danger they’d need the last one with way too much time left on the clock.

azcat49 wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:19 am So when Illinois went on it’s 19-0 run, LLoyd used only 1 TO. He also had the under 8 minute TV TO but when I watched that unfold I thought of Miller and how many TO’s He would have used

I'll take "All of them" for $300 Alex.

Chicat wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:37 am

azcat49 wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 10:19 am So when Illinois went on it’s 19-0 run, LLoyd used only 1 TO. He also had the under 8 minute TV TO but when I watched that unfold I thought of Miller and how many TO’s He would have used

I had the same thought rewatching the game last night. We would have been out of TOs by halftime. Instead it was Illinois who had to be careful with their timeouts. They took their second to last with like 13 minutes left in the second half. And with our press and traps there was a real danger they’d need the last one with way too much time left on the clock.

Tommy is a lot more of the Lute mindset of trusting his team to figure it out

Cats trailed by one point with under 2:30 in the second half and Lloyd went to Tubelis on the block to block back screen from Kriisa with tall Terry delivering the entry pass perfectly gaining the lead they would not relinquish again.

great design and perfect execution in a moment where Arizona had to have a basket.

big-time by Lloyd & players

97cats wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:23 am Cats trailed by one point with under 2:30 in the second half and Lloyd went to Tubelis on the block to block back screen from Kriisa with tall Terry delivering the entry pass perfectly gaining the lead they would not relinquish again.

great design and perfect execution in a moment where Arizona had to have a basket.

big-time by Lloyd & players

That was the bucket that I thought was impossibly important.

dovecanyoncat wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:27 am

97cats wrote: Sun Dec 12, 2021 11:23 am Cats trailed by one point with under 2:30 in the second half and Lloyd went to Tubelis on the block to block back screen from Kriisa with tall Terry delivering the entry pass perfectly gaining the lead they would not relinquish again.

great design and perfect execution in a moment where Arizona had to have a basket.

big-time by Lloyd & players

That was the bucket that I thought was impossibly important.

..... and it was pulled off perfectly with Kofi arriving just a moment too late to block it into the glass.

so good

he had that play in before the free throws, its a mature move and smart to go to the reliable Tubelis there in that spot and have Terry deliver. its these moments nobody knew how Lloyd would react cause there was no sample size. he himself maybe didnt even fully know, but it seems its natural for him. it looks natural. clearly Lloyd is a very bright basketball coach first, at least thats what i feel like i'm learning. that play in that moment incapsulates some of that for me.

This style of play is what so many of us asked from Miller. You recruit these guys and then never let them go. I know CSM was just wound too tight to let the team go.
He was done dirty but it’s nice to see CTL let loose the hounds.

HiCat wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 8:27 am Don't know if this is up already. (delete if so)


13. Arizona (NR): The Wildcats were as impressive as any team in the past week with a dominating tournament win in Las Vegas, capped off by a dismantling of Michigan.

https://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-me ... t-power-36

17. Arizona
https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... fz;rn;fp;1;;

https://www.cbssports.com/college-baske ... ked-teams/

7
Arizona Bennedict Mathurin finished with 30 points and seven rebounds in Saturday's 83-79 win at Illinois. The Wildcats' next game is Wednesday against Northern Colorado. 2 9-0

So...if i love the Lloyd hire can i still hate Robbins? Asking for a friend.

Also...does he and Adia bring back certain boosters to the program who have been away for a minute? I think if the year finishes similar to the start you lock Tommy up minus the oil deals

Confession...Love Sean Miller still, and you can see the defense he coached is in the players he coached currently. But holy offense explosion Lute style. We're deeeep....I'm really hoping the defensive tenacity continues after Seans guys mature out of the program

whatisee wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:09 am So...if i love the Lloyd hire can i still hate Robbins? Asking for a friend.

Also...does he and Adia bring back certain boosters to the program who have been away for a minute? I think if the year finishes similar to the start you lock Tommy up minus the oil deals

Confession...Love Sean Miller still, and you can see the defense he coached is in the players he coached currently. But holy offense explosion Lute style. We're deeeep....I'm really hoping the defensive tenacity continues after Seans guys mature out of the program

Robbins, a university president who has no business getting involved with a basketball hire, tossed our postseason last year so he could fire Miller without cause, and hired a head coach with no head coaching experience. Yes, you can still hate Robbins even if you love Lloyd after he gets Miller's players to stay and builds a winning tradition with them.

I think a lot of it is what Sean said on his podcast. These guys are pissed (paraphrasing) that they got robbed of the tourney last year and are hungry to win.

I love the intensity on both sides, but especially the defense. We are swarming to all loose balls, swiping anytime a big brings the ball down…and getting up in the other teams jock the whole game. We make them work to score. I love it!

I haven’t felt this good about a team since before BAsh got hurt. “Ecstatic” doesn’t sum it up.

BEAR THE FUCK DOWN!!!
Tommy is dorky…but the man knows basketball!!!!!

Longhorned wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:21 am

whatisee wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:09 am So...if i love the Lloyd hire can i still hate Robbins? Asking for a friend.

Also...does he and Adia bring back certain boosters to the program who have been away for a minute? I think if the year finishes similar to the start you lock Tommy up minus the oil deals

Confession...Love Sean Miller still, and you can see the defense he coached is in the players he coached currently. But holy offense explosion Lute style. We're deeeep....I'm really hoping the defensive tenacity continues after Seans guys mature out of the program

Robbins, a university president who has no business getting involved with a basketball hire, tossed our postseason last year so he could fire Miller without cause, and hired a head coach with no head coaching experience. Yes, you can still hate Robbins even if you love Lloyd after he gets Miller's players to stay and builds a winning tradition with them.

Robbins is a moron, but like I said before, Tommy Lloyd was quite frankly the easiest lay up for Robbins in regards to coaching candidates without head coaching experience goes.

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:28 am

Longhorned wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:21 am

whatisee wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:09 am So...if i love the Lloyd hire can i still hate Robbins? Asking for a friend.

Also...does he and Adia bring back certain boosters to the program who have been away for a minute? I think if the year finishes similar to the start you lock Tommy up minus the oil deals

Confession...Love Sean Miller still, and you can see the defense he coached is in the players he coached currently. But holy offense explosion Lute style. We're deeeep....I'm really hoping the defensive tenacity continues after Seans guys mature out of the program

Robbins, a university president who has no business getting involved with a basketball hire, tossed our postseason last year so he could fire Miller without cause, and hired a head coach with no head coaching experience. Yes, you can still hate Robbins even if you love Lloyd after he gets Miller's players to stay and builds a winning tradition with them.

Robbins is a moron, but like I said before, Tommy Lloyd was quite frankly the easiest lay up for Robbins in regards to coaching candidates without head coaching experience goes.

Normally the fan base would have never accepted a coach without head coaching history because of our 'history'. I personally think Tommy happened at the exact time the fan base would accept the hire. Uncertainty with possible sanctions looming. Let's get a bandaide hire until the dust settles, and then go after a top name. Doesn't really seem to be the case anymore imo. Tommy is the guy

Tommy won't be the guy very long if he rests on Miller's laurels. I don't think he will do that, I'm just saying Tucson loyalty to a basketball coach comes with standards that must meet and bear the burden of history. It gets tougher from here.

whatisee wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:36 am
Normally the fan base would have never accepted a coach without head coaching history because of our 'history'. I personally think Tommy happened at the exact time the fan base would accept the hire. Uncertainty with possible sanctions looming. Let's get a bandaide hire until the dust settles, and then go after a top name. Doesn't really seem to be the case anymore imo. Tommy is the guy

Oh yeah, under any normal circumstances a head coach with no head coaching experience wouldn't have even been humored, but with our situation where we had to choose from the top AHC available or unqualified alums, it was as much of a lay up as we could've gotten.

ChooChooCat wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:50 am

whatisee wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:36 am
Normally the fan base would have never accepted a coach without head coaching history because of our 'history'. I personally think Tommy happened at the exact time the fan base would accept the hire. Uncertainty with possible sanctions looming. Let's get a bandaide hire until the dust settles, and then go after a top name. Doesn't really seem to be the case anymore imo. Tommy is the guy

Oh yeah, under any normal circumstances a head coach with no head coaching experience wouldn't have even been humored, but with our situation where we had to choose from the top AHC available or unqualified alums, it was as much of a lay up as we could've gotten.

This. And with the cupboard not being bare and having a bunch of players that fit into CTL's style no wonder his #1 goal was to retain all of Miller's players.

That was the biggest move of the offseason imo.

dovecanyoncat wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:45 am Tommy won't be the guy very long if he rests on Miller's laurels. I don't think he will do that, I'm just saying Tucson loyalty to a basketball coach comes with standards that must meet and bear the burden of history. It gets tougher from here.

He’s also setting the bar very high for himself, which I’m sure he’d tell you is a fantastic problem to have.

But if the narrative is “just wait until he gets his own recruits!” and then teams featuring only his recruits underperform the ones that feature Miller players, that narrative can turn around in a hurry.

His most important job right now might just be riding the momentum of his on-court success into recruiting trail success.

Agree on this point a lot. The positive thing for Llyod's recruiting is the style of play this team shows. Tenacious D with a run and gun offense. What recruit wouldn't want to play under this system? I'm sure our start this year has answered a lot of the 1st questions kids and family have thinking about a school to further their careers. As I look at the roster i see a 3 to 4 possible losses to the team next year. So that leaves a few openings.

I love Kerr, but does anyone think about this offense under Akinjo? Look at Baylor... Kerr's tenacity fuels the current team imo

Longhorned wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:21 am

whatisee wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:09 am So...if i love the Lloyd hire can i still hate Robbins? Asking for a friend.

Also...does he and Adia bring back certain boosters to the program who have been away for a minute? I think if the year finishes similar to the start you lock Tommy up minus the oil deals

Confession...Love Sean Miller still, and you can see the defense he coached is in the players he coached currently. But holy offense explosion Lute style. We're deeeep....I'm really hoping the defensive tenacity continues after Seans guys mature out of the program

Robbins, a university president who has no business getting involved with a basketball hire, tossed our postseason last year so he could fire Miller without cause, and hired a head coach with no head coaching experience. Yes, you can still hate Robbins even if you love Lloyd after he gets Miller's players to stay and builds a winning tradition with them.

Two other things. First, it isn't all crazy that a top ten national job could score a guy with no HC experience. All credit to Lloyd, but it isn't like it's a shocking coup we pulled a guy who's never been a HC before.

Also, and this is assuming Lloyd is gonna be pretty good, isn't that just meeting expectations for Robbins? I think we've become accustomed to such failure (Sumlin) that simply hiring a good coach into a really attractive job is viewed as a win.

Like if you're hiring for CEO of a Fortune 500 company, you expect you'll get good candidates. Hiring someone who's good...it's a compliment to the candidate but not really to the hiring committee.

Plus, giving Robbins credit sort of overlooks the rumblings he almost screwed up what should have been a guaranteed hire.

Chicat wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 8:10 am

dovecanyoncat wrote: Mon Dec 13, 2021 7:45 am Tommy won't be the guy very long if he rests on Miller's laurels. I don't think he will do that, I'm just saying Tucson loyalty to a basketball coach comes with standards that must meet and bear the burden of history. It gets tougher from here.

He’s also setting the bar very high for himself, which I’m sure he’d tell you is a fantastic problem to have.

But if the narrative is “just wait until he gets his own recruits!” and then teams featuring only his recruits underperform the ones that feature Miller players, that narrative can turn around in a hurry.

His most important job right now might just be riding the momentum of his on-court success into recruiting trail success.

I mean, this is obviously the most negative example, but I pointed to Kevin Ollie. UConn loved him when he won a natty with someone else's players. Then he fell off a cliff and got fired.

Lloyd is doing a very good job with this group. His ability to bring in new talent to match the outgoing is a key for his, or any coach's, long term success.

It is just how it is.