Tommy Lloyd

[azcat49]

Always drama and it is always starting from the same sources

You lost me here? What sources? He said what he said in a post game interview and he clearly called out our fans.

Maybe he wants a change in seating but DRF is not having it for $$ reasons. Maybe he is calling out the Big XII for giving us a SR night on a Tuesday (so far the only team I could find that had that). Regardless, it doesn’t read well

[PHXCATS]

Always drama and it is always starting from the same sources

You lost me here? What sources? He said what he said in a post game interview and he clearly called out our fans.

Maybe he wants a change in seating but DRF is not having it for $$ reasons. Maybe he is calling out the Big XII for giving us a SR night on a Tuesday (so far the only team I could find that had that). Regardless, it doesn’t read well

Scheer and Luke

Duddleson wasn't talking about Lloyd

And our fans do suck by and large

[Winger]

McKale does not suck in the way Lloyd was alleging. Get out of here with that nonsense. And he was definitely indicting the fanbase. He is completely off the reservation with this nonsense and has been the other 3-4 times he has brought it up. He needs to shut the fuck up on this. Lots of Arizona fans/ticketholders feel the same way.

Oh and Lloyd’s own AD sent promo to the ticket holders on gameday that the senior celebrations were PREGAME.

[PHXCATS]

He never said they suck

We ain't at Kansas level. Plain and simple

[azcat49]

Gotcha. Bad thing here is that you are going to make me listen to that idiot Luke to see what he said exactly. He is a giant POS

[PHXCATS]

Gotcha. Bad thing here is that you are going to make me listen to that idiot Luke to see what he said exactly. He is a giant POS

Nothing new

Just always starting drama

And Scheer is the one that said Duddleson was talking about Lloyd when he wasnt

[AZCatGirl]

Maybe stop reading what they say if it bothers you so much? No else gives a shit so I don't know why you feel the need to constantly share.

[Lando05]

Maybe stop reading what they say if it bothers you so much? No else gives a shit so I don't know why you feel the need to constantly share.

Amen

[Winger]

He never said they suck

Come on. You really don’t understand what I was posting there?

Who was Duddleston referring to?

[PHXCATS]

Maybe stop reading what they say if it bothers you so much? No else gives a shit so I don't know why you feel the need to constantly share.

Tell me you don't get it without telling me you don't get it

[TheCat]

What's the speculation on Stephen? I imagine he can't be happy, especially after Lloyd pulled his redshirt and told him he would be part of the rotation at some point. I mean a total of 11 minutes in 5 games?

I was thinking he would go in v. KU when Veesaar and Awaka both had 3 fouls. Dickinson would score on him every time, but then again he scored at will with Veesaar and Awaka guarding him.

Krivas, Veesaar, and Awaka ahead of him next year makes me think he will be the first one gone.

You are completely wrong about Lloyd pulling his redshirt and telling him he would be part of the rotation. Do you just make this shit up now? Go back and look at what he said about Stephen losing his redshirt and how he tried to talk him out of it because he wouldn't play much. Stephen insisted when Krivas got hurt because he wanted to be an option IF necessary. A real teammate.

I have said I think we lose two bigs to the portal and NIL. Awaka will get offered a ton of money to leave and that will really hurt if he chooses to go.

Merk I have no idea why you are just making stuff up about Stephen. Maybe you are just disappointed we came in 3rd in our first season in the BIG 12. Maybe you don't like the coach. I mean all he has done before this year is win championship or conference tournaments. He has taken what you and others have called a mismatch of limited players and done better than any knowledgeable person projected in a much tougher conference. This after replacing 80% of his starting rotation. Does the roster have holes....yes it does. I just get jealous watching team that have a reliable 3 point shooter (ISU, Houston, Baylor) a guy that can step up when you are really struggling. We don't have one but we have beat ISU and Baylor so somehow we have found a way.

[JMarkJohns]

Offical stat keeper in McKale. Tommy's remark are not sitting well with some people

He isnt talking about Tommy's comments

He’s absolutely talking to Lloyd on two fronts. First, STFU, next, his behind the scenes attempts to alter student section vs profits of current seating.

[TheCat]

Your team is mediocre. Make it better. That’s on coaching and recruiting and development.

So win the league or come in second are the only thing that makes your team not mediocre?

Got it.

[JMarkJohns]

Your team is mediocre. Make it better. That’s on coaching and recruiting and development.

So win the league or come in second are the only thing that makes your team not mediocre?

Got it.

You suck at nuance. Basketball, teams, skills of teams, dynamics of players on teams are drastically different than just outcomes, and, yes, he’s 5-12 vs tournament teams, starting 0-5 and ending 0-4. Quit trying to hang me in your trophy room. You haven’t the capacity.

[PHXCATS]

Offical stat keeper in McKale. Tommy's remark are not sitting well with some people

Hasn't been stat keeper since 2013....oooooffffffffffff

[Postmaster]

Jay Gonzales has been doing stats, although I believe he is no longer doing it, or maybe this is his final season.

[TheCat]

Your team is mediocre. Make it better. That’s on coaching and recruiting and development.

So win the league or come in second are the only thing that makes your team not mediocre?

Got it.

You suck at nuance. Basketball, teams, skills of teams, dynamics of players on teams are drastically different than just outcomes, and, yes, he’s 5-12 vs tournament teams, starting 0-5 and ending 0-4. Quit trying to hang me in your trophy room. You haven’t the capacity.

Third in conference.....can't argue with results can you? To be hung on my trophy wall you have to be considered a trophy. You're not a trophy, just bitter and find no joy in anything without your two bit criticism. Not sure why you hate of our coach. His results have been outstanding by historical NCAA basketball standards (wins ).Yes we could have great dynamics of players and skill of the team and end up 6th in the conference. Would that be what makes you happy? What are you looking for and judging other than results?

[Winger]

Offical stat keeper in McKale. Tommy's remark are not sitting well with some people

Hasn't been stat keeper since 2013....oooooffffffffffff

You keep posting that D wasn’t referring to Lloyd with that tweet. I ask again, who was he referring to?

JMJ - I think you were being charitable in labeling this Arizona team as “mediocre” (if one is using Arizona basketball program as the standard).

[TheCat]

McKale does not suck in the way Lloyd was alleging. Get out of here with that nonsense. And he was definitely indicting the fanbase. He is completely off the reservation with this nonsense and has been the other 3-4 times he has brought it up. He needs to shut the fuck up on this. Lots of Arizona fans/ticketholders feel the same way.

Oh and Lloyd’s own AD sent promo to the ticket holders on gameday that the senior celebrations were PREGAME.

McKale by all accounts is a top 5 venue. He was comparing it to a site that is widely recognized as the holy grail of venues. McKale doesn't suck but of course he never said that. I will tell you that the one venue that is going to become recognized as a great is BYU. They are just now starting to flex their NIL prowess and they play a very entertaining brand of basketball. Their student section compared to ours is huge and energetic.

[PHXCATS]

Offical stat keeper in McKale. Tommy's remark are not sitting well with some people

Hasn't been stat keeper since 2013....oooooffffffffffff

You keep posting that D wasn’t referring to Lloyd with that tweet. I ask again, who was he referring to?

JMJ - I think you were being charitable in labeling this Arizona team as “mediocre” (if one is using Arizona basketball program as the standard).

Media

Everyone just runs with what Scheer says

He literally has not been the stat keeper for over a decade and everyone calls him the stat keeper? Why?

[Winger]

I dont understand how that tweet directs to the media. Were there media types putting down the experience at McKale and arguing for an expansion of the student section?

I have seen a few recent articles where the media has covered Lloyd’s postgame comments about the McKale crowd being lacking but that clearly isnt the same thing.

[TheCat]

Offical stat keeper in McKale. Tommy's remark are not sitting well with some people

Hasn't been stat keeper since 2013....oooooffffffffffff

You keep posting that D wasn’t referring to Lloyd with that tweet. I ask again, who was he referring to?

JMJ - I think you were being charitable in labeling this Arizona team as “mediocre” (if one is using Arizona basketball program as the standard).

Of course you think this team is mediocre and our coach is shit. Hate to hear what you think of ISU and others that finished behind us in conference. Using Arizona basketball as a standard how many titles and conference championship do you want in a row? Is 3 out of 4 enough? Well you and your magical standard is not measured by win or losses it is measured by something only you know. By wins/championships maybe you can point out this standard.

It is really pretty simple. You and the trophy that is JMJ find this team lacking (so do I) but refuse to recognize results. You can do that and criticize what you want. Be it roster makeup, recruiting, development of young players whatever but I think you should recognize the outcome of all those shortcomings is wins. People can value what they want. Not mine to determine what you find valuable. My standard for Arizona has been wins.

[JMarkJohns]

Offical stat keeper in McKale. Tommy's remark are not sitting well with some people

Hasn't been stat keeper since 2013....oooooffffffffffff

You keep posting that D wasn’t referring to Lloyd with that tweet. I ask again, who was he referring to?

JMJ - I think you were being charitable in labeling this Arizona team as “mediocre” (if one is using Arizona basketball program as the standard).

Media

Everyone just runs with what Scheer says

He literally has not been the stat keeper for over a decade and everyone calls him the stat keeper? Why?

So, he’s referring to Jason and Mike who are blasting Lloyd and telling them “if you don’t like it get out and STFU?”

Do you even understand they share the same opinion… that Lloyd woefully overstepped and put the first friendly fire nationally that Arizona and McKale isn’t the place revenue and national media promote it to be?


Laughable.

[JMarkJohns]

Offical stat keeper in McKale. Tommy's remark are not sitting well with some people

Hasn't been stat keeper since 2013....oooooffffffffffff

You keep posting that D wasn’t referring to Lloyd with that tweet. I ask again, who was he referring to?

JMJ - I think you were being charitable in labeling this Arizona team as “mediocre” (if one is using Arizona basketball program as the standard).

The idea Arizona with a 5-12 record vs Tournament Teams is anything but mediocre this season is a coping mechanism.

Briefly, when it barely lost at Tech, avenged WVU loss on road, swept Baylor, beat BYU on road, and Hail Mary’d vs Iowa State, it looked like the small but smart changes to this flawed roster were creating pathways to ideal outcomes. They really competed vs Houston. But since that game it has been Loss to every single Tournament team, even if one was because of Padilla.


This team doesn’t have a defining skill. It can’t shoot worth a damn vs solid Defenses, and can’t defend down low or on the perimeter. It is solid on the glass but consistently also gets out-rebounded. It doesn’t have depth enough to come at you in waves. It doesn’t have levels of facilitators or iso scorers who will consistently pressure point of attack and the lane. They are a good FT team, but don’t generate a ton of FTs.

Basically, they are average across the board with just enough height or skill or Tommy to beat the majority of the teams they should beat (Oklahoma, KSU, and BYU notwithstanding), but not enough to consistently compete or outscheme quality teams.

No amount of snide comments changes this.

Add to the fact they are a terrible closing team, consistent losing leads or games late, yes, mediocre is generous.

[Merkin]

You are completely wrong about Lloyd pulling his redshirt and telling him he would be part of the rotation. D

https://tucson.com/sports/arizonawildca ... a9e64.html

Bracing for life without center Motiejus Krivas for the long haul, Arizona coach Tommy Lloyd is aiming to pull freshman Emmanuel Stephen out of a redshirt season and mix him into the rotation “at some point.”

[TheCat]

Merk,

Say that all you want or watch the video of Lloyd saying Stephen insisted on his redshirt being pulled when he counseled against it. That is from Lloyd mouth in the media on camera. I can believe your article or my lying eyes. You know it is bullshit and certainly does not support your original post where you said he must be angry and was lied to.

[Beachcat97]

Offical stat keeper in McKale. Tommy's remark are not sitting well with some people

Hasn't been stat keeper since 2013....oooooffffffffffff

You keep posting that D wasn’t referring to Lloyd with that tweet. I ask again, who was he referring to?

JMJ - I think you were being charitable in labeling this Arizona team as “mediocre” (if one is using Arizona basketball program as the standard).

The idea Arizona with a 5-12 record vs Tournament Teams is anything but mediocre this season is a coping mechanism.

Briefly, when it barely lost at Tech, avenged WVU loss on road, swept Baylor, beat BYU on road, and Hail Mary’d vs Iowa State, it looked like the small but smart changes to this flawed roster were creating pathways to ideal outcomes. They really competed vs Houston. But since that game it has been Loss to every single Tournament team, even if one was because of Padilla.


This team doesn’t have a defining skill. It can’t shoot worth a damn vs solid Defenses, and can’t defend down low or on the perimeter. It is solid on the glass but consistently also gets out-rebounded. It doesn’t have depth enough to come at you in waves. It doesn’t have levels of facilitators or iso scorers who will consistently pressure point of attack and the lane. They are a good FT team, but don’t generate a ton of FTs.

Basically, they are average across the board with just enough height or skill or Tommy to beat the majority of the teams they should beat (Oklahoma, KSU, and BYU notwithstanding), but not enough to consistently compete or outscheme quality teams.

No amount of snide comments changes this.

Add to the fact they are a terrible closing team, consistent losing leads or games late, yes, mediocre is generous.

This is all spot on.

[TheCat]

Winger I would love to hear your thoughts on this offseason. I know we don’t know who will leave but I am sure you have some thoughts on what would make a good offseason for CTL

Bottom line = top 10 quality lineup.

Baring a crazy run to end the season this team is going to underperform that standard.

Reason I say this offseason is big is:

1. As Miller’s players have filtered out of the program Lloyd’s teams have got worse. Need to reverse this trend.

What? Let me refresh your memory. I will qualify it by saying first I love Sean Miller but as usual Winger just says stuff that does not stand up to scrutiny.

Sean Miller last 3 years at Arizona in conference (you know the notoriously weak PAC):
2018-19 .......8-10......finished 9th
2019-20 ...... 10-8......finished 5th
2020-21.......11-9...... finished 5th

Tommy took the really strong 5th place team:
2021-22.......18-2.....finished 1st
2022-23........14-6.....finished T for 2nd
2023-24.......15-5 .....finished 1st

Might use facts instead of gut feel. Not sure how Tommy took that 5th place team and turned it in a first place team unless it was a strong Euro named Tubelis that really helped. Guess we don't talk about that. Or the development of an out of shape guy named Ballo who is currently his teams leading scorer, rebounder and shot blocker. But it should be noted that Tommy does not develop young players and has a failing record with Euro's.

[azcat49]

Come on, you are cherry picking. The talent level has definitely fallen off. Nothing wrong with CTL’s coaching which at worst is an A but Winger and JMark make very valid points about the shortfall in roster construction

[dirtbags]

catching up to the euro / overseas recruiting: i figured tommy dipped into international recruits as a way to get around NIL deals, as students on f1 visas have employment restrictions (and bc it's something mark few did). but i hear collectives found a loophole where they can give athletes on student visas NIL money as long as there's no actual labor involved (e.g., just using the athlete's photo in a promotion)

[Merkin]

Pretty sure Tommy could take Miller's last team and totally destroy Tommy's current team.

Akinjo first team PAC-12.

[TheCat]

Come on, you are cherry picking. The talent level has definitely fallen off. Nothing wrong with CTL’s coaching which at worst is an A but Winger and JMark make very valid points about the shortfall in roster construction

Talent level is going to drop when you lose two guys that are in the NBA now.

Just point out where I haven't said this team is flawed. Agree with no reliable outside shooting and have said that repeatedly. I think it indicates that you have a flaw so you turn to rebounding and foul shooting to offset. That to me is good coaching and also a recognition from the coaching staff, as they have said numerous times, we are not a good shooting team.

I don't think posting actual year wins and losses is cherry picking.

For the record I don't think we will go far in the tournament. We have a better chance of advancing against a team like Houston than we do against a high scoring team. I also think this team looks tired. ADO hasn't provided any reasonable relief for our guards and injury has prevented a two big lineup that Tommy prefers.

Happy with our first year in the Big 12 and exceeding anybody's expectation. To some that is n't enough. I would just ask what were their expectations coming in.

[azcat49]

I think the angst comes from those first few years of success coupled with the thought that with his coaching and style of play, that the talent level would rise to heights that would lead us to the promised land.

Instead we got spotty recruiting results from HS talent, transfers that seemed to be misevaluated in their ability to contribute in a higher level of play from where they came and then seeing the foreign players develop slowly or not at all at this level.

[azgreg]

Man....Arizona fans.....tough crowd.

[Winger]

Winger I would love to hear your thoughts on this offseason. I know we don’t know who will leave but I am sure you have some thoughts on what would make a good offseason for CTL

1. As Miller’s players have filtered out of the program Lloyd’s teams have got worse. Need to reverse this trend.

What?

Season 1: 33-4, 18-2, Pac champs, Pac T champs, 1-seed, Sweet 16
Season 2: 28-7, 14-6, 2nd in Pac, Pac T champs, 2-seed, lost 1st round
Season 3: 27-9, 15-5, Pac champs, lost 2nd round Pac T, 2-seed, Sweet 16
Season 4: 20-11, 14-6, worst AdjO and 2nd worst AdjD of Lloyd's career, by far his worst shooting team, by far his most turnover prone, tie 3rd B12, B12 T TBD, seed TBD but certainly not a 1- nor a 2-, NCAAT TBD

[PHXCATS]

Chill the fuck out people

[azcat49]

Chill the fuck out people

It’s called a message board for a reason. This discourse is good and healthy.

[Chicat]

Chill the fuck out people

It’s called a message board for a reason. This discourse is good and healthy.

Some people live to tell others what they can and cannot talk about or feel.

[azgreg]

Chill the fuck out people

[Winger]

i figured tommy dipped into international recruits as a way to get around NIL deals, as students on f1 visas have employment restrictions (and bc it's something mark few did).

Just saw this DB.

Lloyd took on international recruiting very early in his career because Few suggested that he needed a niche.

Since then (circa 2002 or 2003), Lloyd has established himself as the best, or one of the very best, international recruiters in the college game.

This is why he told Kriisa shortly after being hired, "you'd be an idiot to play for anyone else".

My understanding of NIL and international recruits is that due to their F-type visa, if they are to be paid for any work, that work has to be done "on campus".

I don't know if folks have figured out a way around this, but it wouldn't surprise me if they have, and I know international recruits are being "paid".

[Merkin]

What work did Love do for his $800K? Any commercials or ads in Tucson?

Maybe they just give them the money straight up.

The Tubelis bros sold t-shirts.

[TheCat]

Pretty sure Tommy could take Miller's last team and totally destroy Tommy's current team.

Akinjo first team PAC-12.

I agree that was a great team with 3 (kinda) NBA players on it. Would have like to see them in the tourney but we all know what happened there.

Miller coached that team to 11-9 in conference and a overall record of 17-9 in 2020-21.

Tommy took a lot of those same players and coached them to a 18-2 in conference and 33-4 overall the following year without Akinjo first team PAC-12.

Pretty good for a mediocre coach.

It should be noted that in Sean's first 4 years he made the tourney twice (did not make year 1 which is understandable or year 3 coming off an elite 8 finish the year before). Guess he lost some of Purnell's top level recruits. LOL.

[Merkin]

Tommy took a lot of those same players and coached them to a 18-2 in conference and 33-4 overall the following year without Akinjo first team PAC-12.

Pretty good for a mediocre coach.

Uhhh, who said Tommy was a mediocre coach? Like JMJ said, his worst grade for coaching would be A. The whole known universe thinks Tommy did a fantastic job with this roster.

It's recruiting and player evaluations that is lacking.

[Winger]

Tommy took a lot of those same players and coached them to a 18-2 in conference and 33-4 overall the following year without Akinjo first team PAC-12.

Pretty good for a mediocre coach.

What Lloyd did with some of Miller's players the season immediately after Miller left compared to what Miller did with 100% Miller players the season before is not relevant to Lloyd's teams getting worse as Miller's players have filtered out. Did you miss the post above where I show you how that is the case? To reiterate, that trend is what Lloyd needs to reverse and that is a part of why this offseason is so important.

[Lando05]

Tommy took a lot of those same players and coached them to a 18-2 in conference and 33-4 overall the following year without Akinjo first team PAC-12.

Pretty good for a mediocre coach.

What Lloyd did with some of Miller's players the season immediately after Miller left compared to what Miller did with 100% Miller players the season before is not relevant to Lloyd's teams getting worse as Miller's players have filtered out. Did you miss the post above where I show you how that is the case? To reiterate, that trend is what Lloyd needs to reverse and that is a part of why this offseason is so important.

Exactly. No more passive aggressive bs from Tommy about our fans. Take accountability for yourself and your team Tommy. He's regressed every year he's been hear. He needs to fix some glaring issues.

[Postmaster]

Merk,

Say that all you want or watch the video of Lloyd saying Stephen insisted on his redshirt being pulled when he counseled against it. That is from Lloyd mouth in the media on camera. I can believe your article or my lying eyes. You know it is bullshit and certainly does not support your original post where you said he must be angry and was lied to.

The real issue is that once the redshirt was pulled, CTL didn't give him minutes. Especially when TT went down. CTL ran the team down in the second half of season.
The one area Hunter Dick wasn't dominating on Saturday was the FT line. Stephen should have been in there to club him 5 times.

[Postmaster]

I noticed CTL likes to wave his hands to get the crowd going. So, clearly he thinks the crowd is not engaged enough. Personally, I think that is something an assistant coach should do, not the head coach.

[mofo]

I think part of the frustration, at least for me, isn't that the team is "bad", it's just that it could be so much better with a couple different pieces. Like FF vs 1st weekend exit different. Lloyd has proven he can coach, but not having guys on the team that make the most of his system seems tragic.

[dirtbags]

i figured tommy dipped into international recruits as a way to get around NIL deals, as students on f1 visas have employment restrictions (and bc it's something mark few did).

Just saw this DB.

Lloyd took on international recruiting very early in his career because Few suggested that he needed a niche.

Since then (circa 2002 or 2003), Lloyd has established himself as the best, or one of the very best, international recruiters in the college game.

This is why he told Kriisa shortly after being hired, "you'd be an idiot to play for anyone else".

My understanding of NIL and international recruits is that due to their F-type visa, if they are to be paid for any work, that work has to be done "on campus".

I don't know if folks have figured out a way around this, but it wouldn't surprise me if they have, and I know international recruits are being "paid".

oddly, international athletes on student visas in the NCAA can receive NIL money if they're "passive" deals that involves no actual work. from the si article linked below:

Virtually all foreign student-athletes have legal residency in the United States on an F-1 visa, colloquially known as a student visa... Students on an F-1 visa are not allowed to engage in employment outside of “on-campus” work or other specific programs geared toward career development – none of these exemptions allow for traditional influencer-based NIL activations.

There are two types of NIL engagements: active and passive. Active engagements run afoul of F-1 visa guidelines on the employment of international students –– passive engagements do not.

Active NIL engagements require the labor of athletes. This can be any form of service or work by the athlete in the engagement—things such as posting on social media, appearing at an event, or signing an autograph... passive NIL engagements leverage the influence of the athlete without requiring any labor on the athlete’s end. The group licensing payments for the upcoming EA Sports NCAA Football video game can best illustrate this type of engagement. In exchange for financial considerations, student-athletes give EA Sports a license to use their name, image, likeness, voice, and jersey number in the game. No labor comes from the student-athlete, and therefore, no violation of their student visa has occurred.

it's a weird loophole, but i guess that's how overseas recruits are getting paid.

https://www.si.com/fannation/name-image ... etes-noah9

[JMarkJohns]

Ironically TheCat is the only one in this thread calling Tommy a mediocre coach.

Reviewing the thread it’s something he completely made up to emphasize his point. A nice little “When The Fuck Did We Get Ice Cream?!” lie he told to try and command the moment.

Who the fuck said Lloyd was a mediocre coach? I said this is a mediocre season by Arizona standards, largely because the roster is incomplete, a mediocre assemblage by Lloyd after 4 offseasons to create it.

One facilitator
Four centers
No playable wing shooting
No post defense
No perimeter three defense
Stifled top freshman role
Too little accountability for Love and Lewis
Lacking frontcourt athleticism and size due to Trey and Awaka both being several inches short and below the rim players for their position, starting alongside each other for 75% of the season.

Team had major issues, everyone of them a Lloyd choice, and they finished 5-10 vs Tournament teams, 0-5 to begin, 0-4 to end

Lloyd maxed the hell out of that roster year one Big12. Hell, if they don’t choke vs UCLA and close out vs Houston and BYU, they would be a top-15 rank despite all this.

But they did choke vs UCLA. And several other teams that ended up wins, and vs Houston that was a Loss, and stumbled down stretch vs Kansas that was a loss, and allowed themselves to be in a situation where Tony Padilla could screw them over at home vs unranked team, and lose to non-tourney team again in February, etc etc.

This squad is the worst full roster Tommy has had, and, it has had some of the worst accountability, which, shockingly, means they play like crap late game and lose more than they win when it matters.

Not sure how this is even an argument.