2024-25 Arizona Basketball

[Chicat]

Well you and I might feel that way but someone took the time and posted the results of the first five minutes with ADO and it wasn't the reality that he is detrimental .

Except that I posted the results that we are about 15% more efficient on offense the rest of the game, so he may in fact be detrimental.

[pc in NM]

Well you and I might feel that way but someone took the time and posted the results of the first five minutes with ADO and it wasn't the reality that he is detrimental .

Except that I posted the results that we are about 15% more efficient on offense the rest of the game, so he may in fact be detrimental.

Hmmm, I thought that ADO's liability was on defense...

In those first five minutes vs ISU, who made TO's, who missed shots, etc.

As I recall on the chat, fans were complaining about "sloppy basketball".

[Chicat]

Well you and I might feel that way but someone took the time and posted the results of the first five minutes with ADO and it wasn't the reality that he is detrimental .

Except that I posted the results that we are about 15% more efficient on offense the rest of the game, so he may in fact be detrimental.

Hmmm, I thought that ADO's liability was on defense...

A lot of our offense is spurred by our defense. Forced bad shots and turnovers leading to runouts is a big part of our offense. C’mon, I know you watch the games.

[Winger]

Well you and I might feel that way but someone took the time and posted the results of the first five minutes with ADO and it wasn't the reality that he is detrimental .

Except that I posted the results that we are about 15% more efficient on offense the rest of the game, so he may in fact be detrimental.

Hmmm, I thought that ADO's liability was on defense...

A lot of our offense is spurred by our defense. Forced bad shots and turnovers leading to runouts is a big part of our offense. C’mon, I know you watch the games.

You’re all over and on top of this issues and it’s also complicated.

To date, statistically, taking in to account both ends of the floor, Arizona’s best lineup is: Bradley, Love, Lewis, Bryant, Veesaar.

To assess the +/- of Lloyd’s starting ADO you’d need to look at alot of things, some of which could include:

1. The team’s +/- when he goes out (i.e. he doesn’t always play the entire first 5 minutes of each half).
2. The team’s adjusted offensive and defensive efficiencies for those minutes in comparison to those of other lineups or the team overall.
3. What ADO specifically did during those minutes (FGA, FGM, FTA, fouls drawn and committed, boards, ast, to, etc).
4. And then you’d have to dig in to the film. Because that is the only way to decipher how many of the opposition’s buckets were “his fault”, and the opposite.

You could add some eye test as well and here I think it’s important to note that the opinion of Arizona’s fans as to which lineup is Lloyd’s best matches the statistics to date.

If we all came to the conclusion that Lloyd was not starting his best lineup we could then debate why a coach might do that.

I have been posting something slightly different however: there are opponents where Lloyd knows going in, before the game starts, that ADO has “no chance” against and he starts him regardless.

My question is: why the F does he do that?

[pc in NM]

Well you and I might feel that way but someone took the time and posted the results of the first five minutes with ADO and it wasn't the reality that he is detrimental .

Except that I posted the results that we are about 15% more efficient on offense the rest of the game, so he may in fact be detrimental.

Hmmm, I thought that ADO's liability was on defense...

A lot of our offense is spurred by our defense. Forced bad shots and turnovers leading to runouts is a big part of our offense. C’mon, I know you watch the games.

When Arizona struggles, it's primarily in the half-court offense. I don't know, but I guess that 60%-75% of FG's attempted come from half-court offense.

Anyone got data on this??

BTW, you're welcome to participate in game chats/threads in real time and point instances out.

[Chicat]

Well you and I might feel that way but someone took the time and posted the results of the first five minutes with ADO and it wasn't the reality that he is detrimental .

Except that I posted the results that we are about 15% more efficient on offense the rest of the game, so he may in fact be detrimental.

Hmmm, I thought that ADO's liability was on defense...

A lot of our offense is spurred by our defense. Forced bad shots and turnovers leading to runouts is a big part of our offense. C’mon, I know you watch the games.

You’re all over and on top of this issues and it’s also complicated.

To date, statistically, taking in to account both ends of the floor, Arizona’s best lineup is: Bradley, Love, Lewis, Bryant, Veesaar.

To assess the +/- of Lloyd’s starting ADO you’d need to look at alot of things, some of which could include:

1. The team’s +/- when he goes out (i.e. he doesn’t always play the entire first 5 minutes of each half).
2. The team’s adjusted offensive and defensive efficiencies for those minutes in comparison to those of other lineups or the team overall.
3. What ADO specifically did during those minutes (FGA, FGM, FTA, fouls drawn and committed, boards, ast, to, etc).
4. And then you’d have to dig in to the film. Because that is the only way to decipher how many of the opposition’s buckets were “his fault”, and the opposite.

You could add some eye test as well and here I think it’s important to note that the opinion of Arizona’s fans as to which lineup is Lloyd’s best matches the statistics to date.

If we all came to the conclusion that Lloyd was not starting his best lineup we could then debate why a coach might do that.

I have been posting something slightly different however: there are opponents where Lloyd knows going in, before the game starts, that ADO has “no chance” against and he starts him regardless.

My question is: why the F does he do that?

I will readily admit I’m using crude data and ballpark stats to back up the good ol’ Chicat Eye Test, but much like you I see Lloyd trot out a lineup against teams where he has to know he is putting us at a disadvantage right out of the gate. And I have no answer as to why beyond managing psyches.

[Alieberman]

Do the results (wins and losses) mean anything pre / post starting lineup change? I mean... can you really argue with the results?

And what about team chemistry? Do you not risk fucking it up with a lineup change? (Assuming KJ is totally 100% on board with his 6th man spot)

I understand why many think this is a head scratcher. I'm certainly not arguing that ADO is a top 5 player on this team. (or top 7!)

I just think Tommy must see this as his best overall scheme for this team.... and I am loving the direction this team is trending in

[84Cat]

Tommy could easily stay with the same starting lineup and then reassess at halftime and make adjustments. There was no reason on Monday night to completely give up our halftime lead. ISU went right at Delly and took complete advantage of his defensive liabilities to start the 2nd half. NBA coached change lineups all the time depending on who their playing

[azcat49]

To me that 16-0 run to almost end the half (ended up being 16/5) was the best stretch of play all season considering who we were playing

Our OT was also very good as we executed well in the whole period.

[Merkin]

To me that 16-0 run to almost end the half (ended up being 16/5) was the best stretch of play all season considering who we were playing

Our OT was also very good as we executed well in the whole period.

I thought it interesting Veesaar started the OT period, and played well. I imagine to give Tobe a blow, who I think came in after 90 seconds.

Like has often been said, especially by me, like Lute said, it's now who starts, but who is out there in crunch time.

Also that ISU completely gave up in OT. That was really strange. Instead of setting up plays, we will just drive into the paint against 3 UA defenders and get stripped.

[azcat49]

It was interesting that we adjusted well to how physical the game was. Early on we were on our heels but by the end, we were dictating the physicality

[pc in NM]

To me that 16-0 run to almost end the half (ended up being 16/5) was the best stretch of play all season considering who we were playing

Our OT was also very good as we executed well in the whole period.

I thought it interesting Veesaar started the OT period, and played well. I imagine to give Tobe a blow, who I think came in after 90 seconds.

Like has often been said, especially by me, like Lute said, it's now who starts, but who is out there in crunch time.

Also that ISU completely gave up in OT. That was really strange. Instead of setting up plays, we will just drive into the paint against 3 UA defenders and get stripped.

Caleb's shot had to be both shocking and deflating for them - took the wind out of the Cyclones.

CTL was switching Henri and Tobey then - Henri for offense, Tobey for defense - Henri really couldn't defend their big effectively, which is why he only got a few more minutes that ADO

[EastCoastCat]

Btw, let’s give up for Tobe. He’s been a beast for us lately.

Starting to play like we thought he would based on what we saw last year.

[Merkin]

CTL was switching Henri and Tobey then - Henri for offense, Tobey for defense - Henri really couldn't defend their big effectively, which is why he only got a few more minutes that ADO

Like you mentioned about ADO being a pretty good perimeter passer, so is Henri. You can see the confidence the other players have in him in getting him the ball on top of the key. You see other bigs never see the ball out there. He gets more touches per play than any center since Tarczewski. He also runs the court really well.

[84Cat]

Love Tobe!

[Winger]

PC - currently 41% of Arizona’s shot attempts are in transition/the initial 10 sec of the shot clock.

On which Arizona is shooting an eFG% of 65% (this is why you want to prevent transition, every team shoots a better FG% on transition attempts) partly because it takes 52% of those transition attempts at the rim where it shoots 76%.

[MrKyle]

CTL was switching Henri and Tobey then - Henri for offense, Tobey for defense - Henri really couldn't defend their big effectively, which is why he only got a few more minutes that ADO

Like you mentioned about ADO being a pretty good perimeter passer, so is Henri. You can see the confidence the other players have in him in getting him the ball on top of the key. You see other bigs never see the ball out there. He gets more touches per play than any center since Tarczewski. He also runs the court really well.

Exactly - the offense does seems to run much smoother with HV getting ball at top of key/working with him there. There are many more options the opposition has to defend against with Henri as well. Not just a screen setter for sure!

[dmjcat]

[Fishclamps]

That is a perfect example of why +/- is usually total horseshit

[azgreg]

Love Tobe!

[dovecanyoncat]

"Listen, when you get home tonight you're going to be confronted by the instinct to drink alone. Trust that instinct. Manage the pain. Don't try to be a hero."

~ Tobias Ziegler

[VegasCatFan]

To me that 16-0 run to almost end the half (ended up being 16/5) was the best stretch of play all season considering who we were playing

Our OT was also very good as we executed well in the whole period.

I thought it interesting Veesaar started the OT period, and played well. I imagine to give Tobe a blow, who I think came in after 90 seconds.

I was thinking Veesaar started the OT since he's taller and he had a better chance of winning the tap and giving us the first possession.